Nightmare with Arena - please help! (pics )

digitalangel

digitalangel

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2006
Messages
1,857
Location
BellEnd.
Visit site
Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know, after many weeks of chasing the suppliers of my Turf Float Elite surface, and sadly, i am now at the end of the road with them and also at my wits end!!!

The arena and surface was installed in 2013 by a supplier they put me in touch with. I paid a lot of money and was told that this surface would be well up to the job - a surface where maybe 5 horses tops would be riding on it per day. It performed well for the first year, but soon started riding deep around September last year. It was OK throughout the winter, but as soon as it dried out this year it became even worse. It has a sprinkler on it almost constantly, and even then i cant really use it.

I alerted the suppliers of the surface 6 weeks ago that there was an issue - so far i have received the following explanations/excuses;

* you need a topup because surface has gone into the sand
* the fibres are supposed to go into the sand to create a ' root like ' structure, this is normal, but the wind is drying the sand out
* your drainage is too good (!!!)
* everyone else has a top up every 18 months

Long story short, they want 2.5k to put this right.

Im totally devastated. i simply do not have that kind of money laying around - i have been completely ripped off! I put my faith in the Surface Suppliers words and fancy website and all i am left with is a beach/sandpit which is unuseable for half a year :(((

Their final word is because i accepted the surface as fit for purpose ( ie they delivered it and it was put on ) i have no right of recourse - surely this cant be right???!!!???

Does anyone have any recommendations on how i can take this further please? i will call consumer direct on monday of course.

11392974_1134783773217956_928811224201987105_n.jpg
 
FUnny that because others that have sand fibre surfaces dont need a topup ( i have done my homework here!!!!)

i cant find ONE person or supplier who states this!
 
I would guess your next course of action would be through trading standards or the legal route if you are not getting anywhere with the supplier.
Good luck.
 
Sadly I have heard of this too often.

Legal route would be expensive and incredibly time consuming, so perhaps a challenging option in most circumstances.

I would recommend calling them up again and explaining how upset it makes you, and emphasise how you will make sure all your friends and family know that this company provide arena surface that lasts less than two years and has bad customer service.

If possible also leave reviews.

Try dig out all the receipts, bank statements with the money you gave them for the service etc. If possible try find copies of the communications (e.g. emails, letters etc) you have had with the company - both before the service and now once occurring the problems with them.

Good luck and keep us updated.
 
It's such a major cost to put one in, you must be devastated that it isn't working properly.

Is it possible that your arena installer kept the price down to a budget for you by putting in only the minimum of fibre? I ask because I have fibre too, though not the same kind, and my installer added two inches of rubber as well so that I would not need a top up and so it would stay damp and not need to be watered. It looks to me from your picture, judging by the amount of sand which is visible, that you simply don't have enough fibre. After rain, there is no sand visible on my surface, which is now four years this autumn.

I'm not sure your arena is the surface suppliers fault, but it wouldn't be the installer's either if he was told to build down to a price. And even if not, unless you've got it in writing that they told you that it would not need topping up, then I am afraid you may have no option but to top it up at your own cost. As Cortez says, it really isn't at all unusual to have to to up a surface at two years. If you are short of money to do that, then I would look at rubber chip, which would be a lot cheaper.

The sand can take up an amazing amount of surface. A friend of mine had an arena built with at least four inches of rubber laid on a sand base. It wasn't even harrowed in. Four years later, there is barely a sign that there was any rubber laid, it looks like mostly sand!
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately many arenas are not installed correctly and this is why it is so important to get a reputable company to install them.
The first thing you need to do is to get an independent expert to examine your arena and write a detailed report on what the problem is.
Then instruct a specialist equine solicitor to take action against the suppliers on your behalf.
 
Thanks for everyones replies!

Ycmb no i didnt ask him to do it at a budget and im informed there was 6 tonnes of the fibre put in - which initially covered the sand completely - over the past 20 months or so it has worked itself *into* the sand which according to the website of the so called reputable company who supplied it - it CAN and HAS been used like that ( there are 2 options to install it, 1 on top and 2 rotivated in )

I paid Top Notch for a good surface and explained to them ( and their recommended construction guy ) that i needed a surface that would NOT ride deep.

I have also been chasing them for weeks for a solution and explained how unhappy i was - i got lots of excuses, mostly regarding the MD's whereabouts, then a final email today stating tough luck - buy a topup.

For the money i paid and the amount of product put on the surface, there should be NO NEED for a topup. and even if there was the supplier SHOULD HAVE informed me!

They also did NOT give me any Terms and Conditions of which they refer me to in the email.
 
Pilib said:
I would guess your next course of action would be through trading standards or the legal route if you are not getting anywhere with the supplier.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Phone calls are a waste of time because nothing gets documented. This is what I would do. You need to write a detailed letter, setting out the whole process that took place from start to finish finishing with the problems you are now having. At the end if the letter, state that they have 30 days from receipt ( I would send recorded btw) to sort the problems with the arena out before you go to trading standards followed by a lawyer. My arena was built by my OH who is a farmer, granted he did do a lot of research beforehand, but it's been down 13 years and apart from the initial top up of rubber ( it's silica sand and rubber) we haven't had anything else on it. I rake it with a keep a level weekly, and once in a while OH goes in with the jcb and 'pulls' the corners in where the rake can't get to. It is only now starting to show signs of proper wear and tear and is likely to need topping up soon but it never rides deep, it never floods and it is usable even in all but the most severe of frosts, so no OP, you shouldn't have to accept this. Arenas, as others have said, are a major major expense, and it sounds to me like you have been dealing with cowboys! In case you are wondering how much use ours gets, it's daily by at least. 2 horses. We never turn out in it and I don't allow jumping over 3', and I am very anal about droppings and clean feet lol! Good luck I hope you get it sorted soon.
 
Could you ask another supplier to take a look and ask if there are any obvious issues with the installation, whether this is normal after 2 years etc? Then go back to your installer with that info? If you get a report from the independent supplier you could also use that in court if needs be.
 
It still isn't necessarily the suppliers fault, though their customer service seems to be leaving a bit to be desired. I would have expected someone to have come and looked at it.

Arenas can drain too well and will ride deep if they do. I was warned of this myself because my arena has to drain for very wet conditions, (there is actually a spring under it in one corner in winter!) so I was told that if is a dry summer it will ride deeper and possibly become unusable.

The wrong sand will do the same, but I assume they supplied that too.

I'd be devastated myself in your shoes, but I think the poster above is right, if you don't pay for a top up you'll need to pay for an expert independent opinion of what's wrong with it.

If you can't afford a legal fight and you do have to go for a top up, the reason my supplier tops fibre with rubber is that it stops the moisture from evaporating off the surface. So I your situation, I would top with rubber not more turf float.

Let us know if you manage to get any result from chasing the supplier and installer.
 
I feel for you.

My last employer paid about 30K for a top notch arena upgrade, 30 X 40. It was on the site of an old arena, and the fencing etc all remained, so the money was just for the new drainage and surface.

It was fine for a year, but then we had the opposite problem. The water fell on the arena and the arena turned to soup. Some areas drained and some were sticky bogs.

We paid for more drainage, more sand to dilute the sticky waxed surface. No improvement.

Complaints resulted in the limited company going into liquidation. They did not "shut" just changed their name slightly and carried on advertising in Horse and Hound. Left my employer with no way to sort the totally unusable arena without paying another company.

If your arena is dry and deep then if it were me I would top with rubber. I would first give the company in writing 2 months to sort the problem, before rectifying it myself. I would then take said company to small claims for cost of rubber. They may come to an agreement with you.
 
A year I was at had a new arena put in, it was awful, it was way to deep in the summer, fibre was then added, which helped a bit, but imo it was never really right.
 
Thanks all this is all very good information. even the watering isnt really helping now. This has been goingon 6 weeks. I am calling trading standards today and also getting in an expert witness from another supplier.
 
Want is your maintenance routine and what machinery are you using to maintain the arena ?
Mine was greatly improved by the purchase of a good leveller and it did need regular rolling in the first few years .
You must also ensure that an arena that is riding deep is rolled daily and always always before it rains .
 
apparently you cant use a leveller on turf float elite - i use the harrows as recommended by the supplier in the manner that they recommend for this surface.

God i just had to call my suppliers supplier to find out and make sure it was definitely Red Hill fines sand - which it is thankfully but they wouldnt tell me. terrible customer service!!!

Having a guy visit today for an independant expect opinion on how much its going to cost to put right and exactly what is wrong.
 
What have trading standards said?

Make sure your independent expert is indeed one, and not in anyway close to being a competitor- as this won't stand up in court.

You will have to write to the original company to lodge a formal complaint, if you haven't done so already. You should give them the option to put things right.
It is a tough one, you could be around £500 in court fees to take them to the small claims court, which you will have to pay up front, but can re-claim off them if you win. Your problem here is time. It has been so long now that it could be reasonable for them to argue that a top-up would be required. That you were satisfied with the work at the time, and what ever has happened to it over this time frame is not their issue. There is a part in the sales of goods and services act called affirming the contract.

If it came with no guarantee, you paid them in full at the time, and were happy with the job then, it will get more difficult to argue the case. Still not impossible. But what the judge will have to decide, is if during that time frame, it would be reasonable to have to pay for a top up or not
 
Thanks

* it was a 5 year guarantee on the arena supplied by their contractor
* i now must chase the contractor not the supplier, even though its the suppliers product which is no good
* having spoken to other suppliers, 2 years is not a reasonable time frame - for example the combi-ride people said n their firbre surfaces 10-12 years is expected on a newly constructed arena
* I first emailed the contactor october 2013 to say i was worried there wasnt enough surface - he confirmed the amount supplied, caid he would check with supplier it was correct amount but nevet got back to me
* the problem only shows itself in summer. this is the second summer. i also brought up the issue again to the contractor last summer.
* i spoke to a competitor supplier, which said the same as you, but has recommended someone as an independant expert ( local arena constructor who uses a variaty of surfaces from different suppliers )
 
I fully understand why you are upset, but I think until you get the expert's report it is a bit unfair to blame the supplier of the surface. Several of us have pointed out that any surface with too efficient drainage will do what yours has done in summer. The fact that it is fine all winter leads to a suggestion that your drainage is the issue. And that isn't to say that the drainage is faulty either. I've already explained that my own drainage has to cope with very wet conditions in winter. In summer, I could take photos as least as bad as yours after a spell with no rain for a couple of weeks. And I have combi-ride, one of the companies that are happy to tell you that your arena is wrong and theirs would not be like it.

I will be very interested in what your expert says.
 
The supplier themselves admit that it is a problem with their surface, in that i need a topup.
The pics are after 24 hours with no rain and its getting steadily worse - even having a sprinkler on a bit and riding over the same bit will still create big holes.

I would expect it with no rain for a few weeks - but after a few days? sorry no.

Will report here what the expert says.
 
digitalangel said:
The supplier themselves admit that it is a problem with their surface, in that i need a topup.
The pics are after 24 hours with no rain and its getting steadily worse - even having a sprinkler on a bit and riding over the same bit will still create big holes.

I would expect it with no rain for a few weeks - but after a few days? sorry no.

Will report here what the expert says.
Click to expand...

Admittedly they seem to have managed handling your problem very badly, but saying that the surface has all gone into the sand and that a top-up is all they can suggest to resolve the problem is not saying that there is a fault with the surface. The reason it has mixed in so much is still quite possibly over-effective drainage. All surfaces will have a problem with that. Not long ago someone posted slating the supplier of the combi ride that I have for the same reason. They said that all the fibre had rotted away, which isn't possible because it's synthetic. It had simply mixed in, and with over-effective drainage became deep just like yours, and like mine will do without rain.

I'm happy with mine because I know that without it being a bit deep in a dry summer (I can't water it, we don't have enough water if we've not had rain, catch 22! ) it would have standing water on it in winter.

I hope you can reach an agreement with your contractor to put things right, but if you live in a wet area I'd be very wary of making the drains less effective.

Will you let us know what your expert says?
 
Yes i will do.

They have also stated a load of reasons why it has gone deep - overly-effective drainage has only been one reason.
They seem to also think the wind is drying it out.
Or that the topping (fibre) has gone into the surface which doesnt make sense as they also say the surface can be installed in that way.
I can see under the very top surface that the sand is wet ( it is a browner colour ) but that doesnt seem to stop it riding deep.
even with water on it hours before it still rides deep. It rides deep more on corners than in the centre it seems.
Im not an expert, so i will be interested to see what the actual expert says!
 
OP I really feel for you, I am just starting process of planning an arena, its such a huge investment and one that appears can be a bit of a minefield. The more I read up the more difficult it is to make a decision about a suitable surface.
I hope that you can get this resloved as soon as possible without too much outlay
 
Thanks guys,

Been so busy with this this morning ive finally got time to update

So another local arena construction person has come out and had a look
* the fibres have not gone into the sand, theyre still mostly on top
* there isnt enough fibres in the arena
* they havent blown away
* the drainage isnt ' too good '
* the arena is acting like a sand arena because the fibres arent locking the sand together.
* the maintenance equipment recommended by ED is making the problem worse, causing little hills and valleys to form

To fix:
* supply more fibre
* rotivate the fibres in
* re-grade/level the menage
* purchase another set of maintenance equipment.

Spoke to consumer direct again, and it IS them i need to chase regarding this issue, they have also forwarded the case onto trading standards.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top