Nightmare with Arena - please help! (pics )

I hope that you resolve the problem without too much cost to yourself, OP. My experiences of any type of fibre with sand has not been good unless an indoor that is constantly watered. The fibre fluffs up and makes a horrid surface.
When we bought our house we had a basically great sand surface but it went very dry in summer and the wind blew it out of the arena. I topped it with rubber and its been brilliant, needs very little harrowing and stays rideable all year bar the odd heavy frost. I would choose rubber over fibre every time.
 
I agree with the above adding a good layer of rubber is likely to be the easiest way to sort DA's surface .
I had more rubber added to mine after I think three years ( it's a long time ago ) it transformed it .
I also upped my maintenance programme adding rolling and bought a better leveller I am also very very strict about keeping up to date with everything when the arena is getting used I hardly use mine in summer I prefer my grass working area .
 
Just out of interest how can you prove that it hasn't blown away? And if it isn't bound would rotivating help with what you have already?
 
With arenas there is no point trying to save money - believe me I have seen so many that have turned in to a total disaster - and some people have sunk some serious money in to them only to get a total mess Best off using one reputable contractor that does the whole thing for you to a pre-specified specification and that way if there is a problem they will come back and sort it out and still be there to sort it out. Building an arena is not straightforward - there are a lot of variables and you need a company with plenty of experience.
 
@OWLIE185:

I did use a reputable company - they are a ' big name'
in each area, they have their contractors, who do the installation - who also had a good reputation - i checked out his work on other menages before i went ahead.
i had a pre-specified spec.

there is a problem but they WONT sort it. They are aware, but they dont care.
 
ester said:
Just out of interest how can you prove that it hasn't blown away? And if it isn't bound would rotivating help with what you have already?
Click to expand...

Good question I used to find fibre in the shrubs in the garden I think my arena could do ideally to have more fibre added now there's still fibre in there because I see it on the leveller but not as much as there was .
I know that rolling helped my arena , late this summer I will get in a JCB and shift surface from the arenas low point where it builds up my surface shuffles towards the lowest point ( because that's where the main drain is )so every few years we drag it back with a big shallow bucket spread it out level then roll a few times .
DA will have to prove her surface has not gone off in the wind .
I also think you need to overfill arenas a bit ( of course that costs ) when they are first built as it beds in and disappears I find mine all over the drive each time I level it as it comes out on the land rover tyres and you must provide the right maintenance regime and DA will need to prove she's been doing that if this comes as far as a dispute .
Tbh I heard so many horror stories about buying arenas before I built mine we did it ourselves with the help of the local drainage contractor.
 
I do have independant expert visit today - we went through the arena with a fine tooth comb this morning.

I followed to the letter the suppliers recommendations for maintenance and maintenance equipment which is totally wrong. Ive just spoken to arenamate and im the second person that week alone with my type of surface with the same issue.

its clear to me and the expert that there simply isnt enough and having it sit on the top, other than somewhat insulating the sand, its not doing much else.
 
Do you think they have skimped with the amounts to keep the cost down or did they not delver the tonnage you paid for .
I kept all the delivery notes from my build and the later top up do you have yours by any chance ?
Each note says what was in the truck and how heavy it was.
 
I asked for all invoices but never got them

I was told by the contractor that i had the right amount of fibre as directed by the supplier, ( 6 tons, in bags ) and i have that in writing.

The contractor KNOWS damn well i needed a surface that wouldnt ride deep - as my horse has had a previous injury.
 
The trouble is that if 6 tons was the spec and 6 tons was delivered, then you have actually had what you paid for and even though it's not enough, there is no reason for them to give you a top-up without you paying for it. The only thing I can see that you can negotiate over is the cost of haulage for a top-up. If, for example, they could have sent one big lorry with ten or twelve tons on it, then there is no reason why you should pay for the haulage for the top-up. I would certainly top with rubber if it was me though, not more fibre.

Good luck with the continued battle to get this sorted.
 
Well not really..

i asked for a menage that was fit for purpose.

i DID NOT specify how many tonnes of fibre i wanted because i didnt know - im not an expert!

it is not in the spec how many tonnes of fibre was to be supplied either.

the Supplier must specify how many tonnes a 20x40 arena needs to have a rideable surface - they, and the contractor are the experts after all!

I asked for a menage which is fit for purpose, it is not my fault that not enough was supplied, thats up to them.
 
If the supplier, sayd HEY you didnt buy enough topping from us, we specify x amount and you ordered y amount to save money, then yeah you might have a point.

BUT that didnt happen.

Other suppliers have no issue with supplying the RIGHT amount for their surfaces, why not this supplier? OR if its not enough INFORMING THE CUSTOMER of this and to expect a topup sooner rather than later.

the Supplier didnt do any of the above, they gave other reasons for why the surface went deep, refused to come out and refused to take responsibility for the issue.

Think about it, its a great moneymaking opportunity for them! get the customer to buy their products, dont spec enough for their arena, then make them buy more as the surface needs constant topups.

Very slever.

Im guessing this is why its been referred to Trading Standards.
 
digitalangel said:
Well not really..

i asked for a menage that was fit for purpose.

i DID NOT specify how many tonnes of fibre i wanted because i didnt know - im not an expert!

it is not in the spec how many tonnes of fibre was to be supplied either.

the Supplier must specify how many tonnes a 20x40 arena needs to have a rideable surface - they, and the contractor are the experts after all!

I asked for a menage which is fit for purpose, it is not my fault that not enough was supplied, thats up to them.
Click to expand...


I checked my quote to see if I could help you, and mine was for x millimetres of each layer. If your was a quote for the arena as a whole with no detail, then you might be able to argue on fit for purpose, but I think myself that you'll be in for one almighty battle claiming it's not fit to ride on just because it's a bit loose on top. Do you have it in writing anywhere that it had to be a firm surface?
 
Just got it in writing from the supplier

"Based on a 20 x 40 we recommend 6 tonnes of Turffloat Elite and this what you had delivered ."
 
a bit loose on top?

When a horse canters, it HITS THE MEMBRANE the holes are that deep.

no its a very broad quote... not based on x millimetres.
 
"Sand & surface

Supply and lay 125mm silica sand (red hill fines pro grade) to a depth of 125mm, supply and lay

carpet fibre over the top."

He KNEW i wanted the suppliers products, exactly which product, as he is the recommended contractor in the area.
 
digitalangel said:
a bit loose on top?

When a horse canters, it HITS THE MEMBRANE the holes are that deep.

no its a very broad quote... not based on x millimetres.
Click to expand...


Are you riding on it when there are already holes in it? I kick any holes over every time I finish a session where the horse has been over enthusiastic and put his foot right into it. If your base layer of sand is damp and the right depth, how on earth can you be hitting the membrane?


I'm just going to go and check the quoted depth of my surfaces for you, back in a mo.
 
il see if i can take a pic of it today but the short version is that there is nothing to hold the sand together as such as the fibre is on the top
 
From what you've written it doesn't sound like you knew what you wanted to be honest. You keep saying that you didn't specify anything because they are the experts, but they are not mind-readers.

What is fit for purpose for them might not be for you, and vice-versa.

You can't essentially say 'Deliver whatever you think is necessary' and then moan that it's not how you want it. You should have said 'This is what I need and this is exactly how deep I would like it. Please deliver X amount and I will pay XY and Z'. It's not really their fault if you didn't research how much exactly you need.
 
SpringArising said:
From what you've written it doesn't sound like you knew what you wanted to be honest. You keep saying that you didn't specify anything because they are the experts, but they are not mind-readers.

What is fit for purpose for them might not be for you, and vice-versa.

You can't essentially say 'Deliver whatever you think is necessary' and then moan that it's not how you want it. You should have said 'This is what I need and this is exactly how deep I would like it. Please deliver X amount and I will pay XY and Z'. It's not really their fault if you didn't research how much exactly you need.
Click to expand...
Disagree.

It is perfectly ok for a punter to specify how they want the surface to ride, and then it is up to the contractor to produce the goods.

A reputable company would have had no problem interpreting DA's requirements.
 
SpringArising said:
From what you've written it doesn't sound like you knew what you wanted to be honest. You keep saying that you didn't specify anything because they are the experts, but they are not mind-readers.

What is fit for purpose for them might not be for you, and vice-versa.

You can't essentially say 'Deliver whatever you think is necessary' and then moan that it's not how you want it. You should have said 'This is what I need and this is exactly how deep I would like it. Please deliver X amount and I will pay XY and Z'. It's not really their fault if you didn't research how much exactly you need.
Click to expand...

ycbm said:
The trouble is that if 6 tons was the spec and 6 tons was delivered, then you have actually had what you paid for and even though it's not enough, there is no reason for them to give you a top-up without you paying for it. The only thing I can see that you can negotiate over is the cost of haulage for a top-up. If, for example, they could have sent one big lorry with ten or twelve tons on it, then there is no reason why you should pay for the haulage for the top-up. I would certainly top with rubber if it was me though, not more fibre.

Good luck with the continued battle to get this sorted.
Click to expand...

OP, you've had some pretty unfair responses I think.
If I asked a company who supplied/installed arenas to supply me one that would suit my purpose (ie didn't ride deep etc. and I'd made that clear to them) I would expect that company, who are 'the experts' to know what amounts I would need of each surface material.
I wouldn't have a clue what quantities/depths of each were required, if I did I'd be saving myself money and doing it myself - not paying someone else to do it!

Hope you can get this sorted, their customer service sounds awful - a company name I will be remembering as one to steer well clear of!
 
digitalangel said:
il see if i can take a pic of it today but the short version is that there is nothing to hold the sand together as such as the fibre is on the top
Click to expand...

There is always a bottom layer of sand with 'nothing to hold it together'. The whole of any sand arena is nothing but sand. The lower half of any sand/rubber arena is nothing but sand. The sand on the bottom half should always be damp, and it holds itself together. When one of mine does a hooley, they stick their foot through the top half, which is all grey in colour, and what is under that is orange, damp and dense. There's nothing that a horse could do on mine, other than repeatedly scrape at the same hole, to expose the membrane.

I don't understand how your bottom layer is loose enough for them to make a hole right through to the membrane unless it has dried right out. Even a sand only arena would not hole like that if kept damp.
 
Your sand should be pretty firm, even without the fibre. I have 5" of sand topped with 2" of rubber chips on my arena (no fibre). I was told not to ride on it until there was enough water on it to allow the sand grains to knit together. When this has happened, you should be able to poke a forefinger into the sand and you shouldn't be able to penetrate beyond the first knuckle.

Its been down four years and the sand has held the moisture very well. I have never had a horse foot get anywhere near the membrane.

Might the sand be the wrong grade?

ETA. Although 'my' sand retains moisture well, it also drains well. One day we had 4" of rain in 12 hours, which damaged other local arenas. Mine didn't even have a puddle (and never has).
 
Last edited:
indeed, i dont think im being unreasonable, and i do feel like im on the defensive here, which i shouldnt be.

it seems the other poster seems hell bent on defending the supplier, which i dont think is fair, i dont have unreasonable expectations here, i want an arena that is rideable, that shouldnt be too much to ask.

I came here looking for support and advice, im super stressed about this, i paid 30k for it and now i cant use it...
 
I do see what people are saying though that the sand alone is moving so much you are getting to membrane, is it very dry all the way through?
 
definitely the right sand, it has been confirmed now from the contractor, supplier, sibeco who have the quarries and also the independent expert
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top