Nightmare with Arena - please help! (pics )

Who did you have the contract with the people that built the arena?
Did you have a separate contact with the contractors that built it and the people that supplied the surface?
In other words who had the ultimate responsibility for deciding the build and surface to be used?
 
The suppliers website says THEY do arenas
when i called them they gave me the number for the SUBcontractor.

I paid the subcontractor

Citizens advice believe the supplier is ultimately responsible because the sale contract was with them for the whole thing.
 
If I have understood correctly you went to the arena surface people and asked them to recommend an arena builder.
This means that you have had a separate contract with each of them which means you now have to determine which of them was at fault or if both of them where at fault.
The independent report needs to identify the specific faults and if both of them have made mistakes then you will have to take legal action against both of them.
In hindsight you would have been better off instructing an arena contractor and then they would have brought in the correct materials for your arena and been ultimately responsible for the arena.
I would suggest that you need to instruct a specialist equine solicitor to act on your behalf.
 
NO.

i went to the Supplier and asked THEM for the arena, as they SAY ON THEIR WEBSITE that THEY CONSTRUCT ARENAS.

Sorry for the caps i need to be clear.
 
digitalangel said:
it seems the other poster seems hell bent on defending the supplier, which i dont think is fair, i dont have unreasonable expectations here, i want an arena that is rideable, that shouldnt be too much to ask.

I came here looking for support and advice, im super stressed about this, i paid 30k for it and now i cant use it...
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If you mean me I was trying to understand so that I could help. I am sorry you have not found my help useful and I won't post again on this thread.

I have watched your video, and see nothing whatever unusual about your surface except that whatever your expert says, to me it is clearly too dry. I can see why you would not want to ride a horse with a previous injury on it, but I'm afraid that you might struggle to get people to agree that it is 'unrideable' or unfit for purpose.
 
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I wonder whether the problem is that the fibre wasn't mixed in with the sand? We have a sand and fibre arena that is extremely well-drained, but don't seem to have the same problem. However, our fibre was rotivated in to mix it with the sand, and I understand that this is what helps to keep the sand forming a firm surface. From your video it looks as if most of the fibre is just perched in sparse patches on top of the sand and not really performing much of a function.
 
Like a local franchise holder DA? Who did the whole thing or told you how much to order surface wise separately? Just checking so it's clear!

Id be tempted to hire a rotivator and get that fibre in first if that is possible?!
 
digitalangel said:
NO.

i went to the Supplier and asked THEM for the arena, as they SAY ON THEIR WEBSITE that THEY CONSTRUCT ARENAS.

Sorry for the caps i need to be clear.
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Sorry not read all 6 pages so if I am repeating what someone else has said I am sorry.

If you paid the "sub-contractor" then your contract is more than likely with them not with the supplier of the fibre.

You need to approach the sub-contractor and ask them to put it right, not the manufacturers of the surface.

If they won't help then you will need to go via Trading Standards and or via the Small Claims Court. You could take a claim out against the Sub-contractor for the cost of putting it right. It would be up to them to defend it and for them to counter claim against the manufacturer, if you're successful.
 
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I have spoken to citizens advice

They have told me as i explained earlier that because i wanted a menage from the supplier and they advertise menage construction that my sale contract is with them.

trading standards are aware.

TGM: apparently thats how its supposed to go on - the top OR rotovated in. But when i sent the pic to the supplier they said it shouldnt go into the sand, which directly contradicts what their website says

seriously google ' turffloat elite ' or turf float elite '
 
CAB are great but you might want to actually check with a lawyer.

The suppliers of the fibre have provided 1 ton more than the minimum recommended, this would imply that unless they are total cowboys (and it doesn't look as though they are) then it could well be the installation that is at fault not the material.

If its the installation and you paid the installer direct, not through them, then it looks as though your claim should be against the installer not the manufacturer.

Sale of Goods Act always starts you with the retailer not the manufacturer.

Apart from which it wouldn't hurt to try them as well, as if they are regular installers for this manufacturer then pressure from them could well help your cause.
 
It was checked by an expert this morning, the materials are all good, but there isnt enough fibre.

Im only going on what ive been told but i can certainly double check this with an equine solicitor, which i will do.

As i understand it the contractor was working on the Suppliers behalf.

Think about it - its a good money maker for the supplier who DOESNT mention the need for frequent topups to the prospective customers and dont supply enough fibre for the arena to be useable, then can hit them up for more money 2 years down the line and so on...
 
I don't really know much about school surfaces, but I find it hard to believe that a 30K investment like this requires a re-topping again so soon to make it usable, and that you should pay for it. Don't think the company who did it would want to use your video on their website as an example to potential customers of the 'good work' that they've done in the past... I'm sorry this has happened to you Digitalangel! I'll keeping my fingers crossed that the company decide as a gesture of goodwill to do the re-topping at no charge to you.
 
digitalangel said:
As i understand it the contractor was working on the Suppliers behalf.
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Did you pay the Supplier or the Contractor ?

If you paid the supplier for the materials and the contractor for the work and the contractor was recommended by the supplier then you are likely to have contracts with both.

If you paid the supplier for the whole job and they paid the contractor then it is definitely the supplier you have the contract with, as the contractor is working for them.

If you paid the contractor and the contractor paid the supplier then you're contract is most likely with the contractor.

Could I ask has the supplier been out to check the surface and offered any explanation ? Also have you maintained it in accordance with their instructions. (Sorry don't take offence but I would imagine you need to have evidence of this if you hope to potentially get this work done as part of the original contract)

I would agree that I would expect a £30k surface to last more than 2 years but equally we don't know how much groundworks, support work (ie fencing, gates) etc were required so the surface itself might not be such a huge amount.
 
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ive covered all your questions in previous posts but here it is again:

I asked Supplier to carry out the work
Supplier handed it to Subcontractor
CAB say its supplier as i asked them first to do the work
No they refused t come out and see it and as per my first post, lots of explanations were offered but every solution came back to a topup to the tune of 2.5k
yes i maintained it strictly according to their instructions
 
I'm probably no help, but I am gutted for you. It must be horrible to have had your arena upgraded and then to find yourself in this mess! I watched the video and I will say a few things jumped out at me. It's probably not helpful, as I'm not really familiar with sand and fibre arenas, but here goes. There doesn't seem to be a 'base' layer above the membrane. On my current yard, the arena has a course Scoria base that's been compacted somewhat (not rock hard, but firm), then above that is the 10-15cm of surface. This base layer stops horses hitting the membrane, and will prevent anyone forming massive holes. Is it possible that they forgot a step in the construction, such as compacting slightly an inch or so of sand before laying the surface?
 
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act

Have a good look at the link about the Sale of Goods Act particularly regarding satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. Despite what people think the SOGA can cover a customer for much longer then they think especially when they cost as much as your arena!

I used the Which templates to take on a 2nd hand car dealer and win in the Small Claims track of civil court even though loads of people pooh poohed me doing so and told me that the law only covers new items and so on...Wrong :)
 
digitalangel said:
I followed to the letter the suppliers recommendations for maintenance and maintenance equipment which is totally wrong. Ive just spoken to arenamate and im the second person that week alone with my type of surface with the same issue.
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Did the Arenamate peeps think that one of their levellers would be suitable for your surface? They see lots of different arenas, and seem to talk a lot of sense.

I have recently purchased an Arenamate Type 1 with tines, which is doing a fab job on my sand and rubber surface, but is also supposed to be suitable for fibre. Around £895, IIRC, and they bring it out, set it up and give a demo before they take your cash. Does a far better job than the gate that I was dragging over the surface before.

http://www.arenamate.co.uk/typeonewithtinesarenalevellergrader.html
 
Do you know what depth of sand was put down, level an area stamp it down , then dig down to the membrane, you should have no more 125mm (5") , if you have more than this your options would be remove excess sand and possibly add a 25mm rubber chip to stabilise , obviously both options will cost, I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience
 
As with an earlier poster, we built our own after a lot of research, now down for over ten years and just showing signs of the need of a top up and a hole mended in the membrane. It gets jumped on almost daily too. Bad luck, especially when you've relied on someone to give you the right advice. I've never heard of an arena needing topping up every two years, everyone I know seems to go much much longer than that, if ever having to have it done. Local dressage yard has had their's down for twenty without a top up but with regular care.
 
H
SpringArising said:
From what you've written it doesn't sound like you knew what you wanted to be honest. You keep saying that you didn't specify anything because they are the experts, but they are not mind-readers.

What is fit for purpose for them might not be for you, and vice-versa.

You can't essentially say 'Deliver whatever you think is necessary' and then moan that it's not how you want it. You should have said 'This is what I need and this is exactly how deep I would like it. Please deliver X amount and I will pay XY and Z'. It's not really their fault if you didn't research how much exactly you need.
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Couldnt disagree more.The OP is not an expert, and shouldn't have to be. She paid good money for an arena that she could use, and quite clearly hasn't got that.

Tiddlypom said:
Did the Arenamate peeps think that one of their levellers would be suitable for your surface? They see lots of different arenas, and seem to talk a lot of sense.

I have recently purchased an Arenamate Type 1 with tines, which is doing a fab job on my sand and rubber surface, but is also supposed to be suitable for fibre. Around £895, IIRC, and they bring it out, set it up and give a demo before they take your cash. Does a far better job than the gate that I was dragging over the surface before.

http://www.arenamate.co.uk/typeonewithtinesarenalevellergrader.html
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Agree with this ^. We had a fibre surface installed. I used a gate at first, and all that happened was that it pulled the surface to the top . The fibre would quite easily have blown away. We got the arena mate in, the gentleman was a total star, gave a demo, set it all up and we've never looked back. We've got the graded 3 one with the rotating thing at the back. It looks brand new everything it's done. I would highly recommend these OP.

From looking at your vid, my opinion for what it's worth, is you've lost a lot of fibre. You need more, and a new grader to keep it rotated in. Otherwise you will end up back where you are now.

Good luck and I hope you get it resolved
 
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