Nighttime whimpering wwyd

[SadKen]

My lovely old lad is nearly 11 (GSD). He’s arthritic as you might expect, still does stairs fine, trots rather than canters now, does 35 min walks every day mostly off lead. He is awake all the time, always has been. Watches a lot of telly. We took him on holiday three weeks ago, he did a bit of walking on lead steady, max 4 miles. Dosed him up on pardale, seemed fine. Got home and he was off, clearly sore. Took him to the vet and he had a shot of librela. We didn’t see any improvement but ever since he’s been whimpering at 3am and won’t settle without company. Tried letting him have a wee, he has one but doesn’t really need one, starts whimpering again when left. Took him back to the vet and he’s on meta cam now, perky in the day, no signs of distress when left while I work. Sleeps in a big comfy orthopaedic bed (tuffies). But the morning whimpering continues and we aren’t getting any sleep!

I don’t think he is in pain as he would surely whimper at other times and it wouldn’t stop with company, and he wasn’t whimpering before librela even though he was obviously in more pain then pre metacam. He is generally bright and waggy, coat good, vet happy with him.

I can ignore it, but I don’t like him to be distressed. Or I can let him upstairs but he tends to get too hot and pant so we won’t sleep, and there is no way he will stay in his own bed, he will get on ours. So will his brother (even bigger GSD). Or sleep on the couch forever!

I’m giving him an over the counter anxiety pill for dogs, so will see how that goes. And I’ve put him on cbd oil. What would you do? Other suggestions welcome!

 

[CorvusCorax]

My older GSDs are 10 and almost 12, not visibly lame at any gait and not on any meds...but I wouldn't expect them to do 35 minutes in one go daily (they probably do about that over the course of a day in two or three shorter bursts) or four milers....I know I'm probably coming across as overly conservative but they had quite high impact sporting careers and that's the sort of exercise I would give a younger dog?

I'd also rule out whether he might be cold or not, or if he might be being disturbed by wildlife outside.
Having said all of that there's at least one poster here who has had issues with Librela.

 

[FestiveG]

Does your house get cold at about that time? One of the labs was unsettled early morning and we ended up putting a radiator on a timer, problem solved.

 

[meleeka]

Just like us, I think waking in the night can become a habit. If he were mine I’d sleep downstairs for a couple or nights to try and reset things. You could reduce exercise for a couple of days just to see if less exercise helps, but gentle exercise is usually what keeps them going.

 

[skinnydipper]

I’m giving him an over the counter anxiety pill for dogs, so will see how that goes. And I’ve put him on cbd oil. What would you do? Other suggestions welcome!

CBD oil inhibits the P450 enzyme in the liver and affects the metabolism of other drugs including NSAIDS (Metacam) and paracetamol (Pardale). It can alter the concentration of medication which could increase the risk of side effects or cause it to be ineffective.

Have you checked to see if any of the ingredients in the anti anxiety pill have any drug interactions?

 

[Starzaan]

I would be avoiding Librela personally (have had numerous dogs have terrible reactions to it).
If he’s on Loxicom or Metacam I would be giving it at night. It makes them drowsy, and I have always found night time is the time they get the most sore.
I would stop all over the counter ‘medication’ and would also cut his walks down. You would be better to do a nice 15 minutes of sniffing somewhere, and then a puzzle game or a lick mat. Keeping him mentally stimulated is more important than physical exercise when he’s at this age. My last oldie only went out maybe twice a week for 20 mins max, but he had such a lovely time doing so, and we spent lots of time playing puzzle games, making lick mats, frozen kongs etc. so he wasn’t bored.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No one is saying STOP EXERCISE! just rethink how it's done.

I can do a 35 minute bimble daily no problem, but my Mum who is 30 years older than me has arthritis in her knee and that would cause her pain. She could probably do three ten minute jaunts no problem.
She's also taller and heavier than me so has to make more effort in movement...I wouldn't compare, for example, a GSD to a JRT or a spaniel in terms of weight, weight-bearing etc.

More of a general point rather than aimed at the OP, but I'm seeing more posts which make me a bit ?
If long walks are making dogs stiff and sore to the point of needing medication then I would be doing a management review.
Very few of us can do the exercise we did as teenagers.
Yes mostly all dogs get excited to go out but they have no concept of how long they will be out and will not make the link when the pain comes later (3-5 seconds is the typical linkage time for a dog to make a connection between two previously unconnected things, then add in a couple of hundred repetitions).
I love chips but I know having them every meal isn't good for me so I advocate for myself, so we must advocate for our dogs.

Do they love the long walks or do we?
To me the point of a walk is not to make the dog exhausted.
There are other ways to exercise and entertain a dog. I thought my 12 year old wouldn't cope with doing ALL THE THINGS EVERY DAY but he's retired really well.

 

[MurphysMinder]

It could be just a bit of senility setting in, my old girl went through a spell of being quite restless at night. I would cut down his exercise as it seems from your post that he needs pain meds to cope with it, and also stop the over the counter medication, as Starzaan says it may be causing issues with the prescription stuff.
I think we have to advocate for our dogs as they get older. My Lancs heeler has retired from full height agility at 11.5 years. He won 2 classes at his last show and a few people have said I should keep competing, but I want to have a fit and healthy dog for as long as possible, so why would I keep pushing him. Your lad may be able to do longer walks but for the long term benefit maybe it is time to stop them.

 

[Starzaan]

No one is saying STOP EXERCISE! just rethink how it's done.

I can do a 35 minute bimble daily no problem, but my Mum who is 30 years older than me has arthritis in her knee and that would cause her pain. She could probably do three ten minute jaunts no problem.
She's also taller and heavier than me so has to make more effort in movement...I wouldn't compare, for example, a GSD to a JRT or a spaniel in terms of weight, weight-bearing etc.

More of a general point rather than aimed at the OP, but I'm seeing more posts which make me a bit ?
If long walks are making dogs stiff and sore to the point of needing medication then I would be doing a management review.
Very few of us can do the exercise we did as teenagers.
Yes mostly all dogs get excited to go out but they have no concept of how long they will be out and will not make the link when the pain comes later (3-5 seconds is the typical linkage time for a dog to make a connection between two previously unconnected thing, then add in a couple of hundred repetitions).
I love chips but I know having them every meal isn't good for me so I advocate for myself, so we must advocate for our dogs.

Do they love the long walks or do we?
To me the point of a walk is not to make the dog exhausted.
There are other ways to exercise and entertain a dog. I thought my 12 year old wouldn't cope with doing ALL THE THINGS EVERY DAY but he's retired really well.

I agree, not aimed at OP but I’m seeing more and more people who seem to think that if their dog isn’t getting hours of walks a day it won’t be happy.
I walk my dogs for their mental stimulation, and to keep them fit and well. I also swim them, take them to strange places to train (yesterday I did half an hour of getting on and off trains with the puppy, and practicing his sits, downs, stands, heel work, focus, and body positioning), do scent work, and do as much as I can to stimulate them mentally. I’m very very lucky to have a very large garden. My dogs are walked three to four times a week. Other than that, they are on lead in a pub, or climbing on and off trains, or simply at home searching for something hidden in the house or garden, learning something new, playing with a puzzle toy, a kong, a frozen lick mat - the opportunities for mental stimulation are endless and I feel too much emphasis is put on walking old dogs to ‘keep them happy’. My old man was much happier playing with a kong by the fire than he was going for a big walk. I much preferred him not needing to be medicated, and feeling happy and comfortable. When my dogs are old and doddery, they go for what we call ‘sniff snoffs’ in this house - a pootle round the car park on the moor, a wander round the village, ten minutes snuffling in the woods - we do little walks that involve lots of nice smells and things to look at. They come home tired and happy, but not sore.

 

[Clodagh]

Maybe try puppy stuff like a low level light or the radio? It sounds like senility to me.
Librella worked ok on our old girl.

 

[SadKen]

Thank you all very much for your replies!

To answer a few of the comments: I would have called 35 mins a bimble tbh as he just mooches and sniffs next to me for 95% of the time, we don’t march ss I’m no athlete. It’s been a nice wander not ‘exercise’ as I no longer train on walks and we haven’t for around a year. He is very keen to go and doesn’t seem stiffer after. Compared to what he used to do it seems little to me, but perhaps that is because he has a long history of lunatic level interest in exercise! I told the vet what we do and he thought the change in activity on hol would be a culprit so no more 4 milers, but saw no issue in the normal regime. I did box rest him last week for 5 days as per vet advice, and didn’t notice any difference in stiffness or whimpering but he wasn’t very happy at the curfew ? I certainly don’t like a long walk so we don’t go for me; I have another 3yo GSD who does come though! My old lad is entertained by mental diversions, changes of scene, including being a telly addict, in general he shows no stereotype behaviour indicating boredom or frustration so I don’t think that’s an issue, or would be by reducing walk time.

re the tablets I asked the vet, and he said no issue to go alongside. He’s only been on them for two days because I couldn’t think of anything else to try. I can take him off them as they haven’t made a difference anyway.

being cold… hmm, it’s definitely possible. I have a jumper I can pop on him. Will try that tonight, thanks!

re the cbd oil, again he has only been on that a couple of days and I’ve seen no changes. But will pause and recheck.

metacam is given at night, but pretty much nothing makes him drowsy anyway. He’s a live wire in extremis. But no different to usual except this whimpering since the jab.

I let him sleep on the bed last night. He thoroughly enjoyed it, I didn’t get any Kip but I didn’t have to listen to him crying! Will see how he does tonight.
I do think the librela has been the trigger but no reason not to reassess what he does now anyway. I genuinely didn’t think what we were doing was excessive for him but I’m not afraid to reconsider.

 

[SadKen]

Maybe try puppy stuff like a low level light or the radio? It sounds like senility to me.
Librella worked ok on our old girl.

yep we had a low light on last night but didn’t help. I think it’s more likely he’s cold, but the start being the same time as librela makes me a bit suspicious! He won’t have any more librela anyway.

 

[SadKen]

The above may have sounded a bit defensive when it isn’t meant to; I just meant I hadn’t seen the exercise we were doing as excessive rather than defending carrying on going forward. I’m happy to reduce it.

our other GSD have always told us what they wanted to do, so figured the same with this one. But equally he isn’t reliable as he would die rather than let a ball get away (hence hasn’t had a ball for several years).

??

 

[SadKen]

Turns out he was cold. Bumped up the bedding and he’s quiet ??

exercise has been reduced too, he has formally retired from the ordinary walks into special old man walks. Seems fine with it, bit more persistent about playing is the only difference.

thanks folks!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Both of my oldies are in jumpers at night...if you'd told me I'd be doing that a few years ago

 

[Clodagh]

Turns out he was cold. Bumped up the bedding and he’s quiet ??

exercise has been reduced too, he has formally retired from the ordinary walks into special old man walks. Seems fine with it, bit more persistent about playing is the only difference.

thanks folks!

That’s brilliant. Such a result.

 

[Clodagh]

Both of my oldies are in jumpers at night...if you'd told me I'd be doing that a few years ago

The things I do now that I’d have mocked myself for ?