Niklas Bschorer and his air jacket at xc yesterday

[Bernster]

Just watched the vid of his incredible moment at the lake yesterday, which I also saw live. Amazing how he stayed on but did he continue or not? I thought he retired at that point. And was the problem that his jacket wouldn't deflate as I assume he could have carried on if it had gone down, as don't they still have to have a body protector on underneath - or has that changed now?

 

[Polos Mum]

I think they do have a normal one underneath - problem is you can't breath or bend in an inflated one so riding XC probably impossible!

Interesting situation as with a normal one he might have completed?? - I'm sure they will now have to invent a fast deflate toggle ! pro riders won't want to have to quit just because of a near miss and those happen more often than you'd think over the years - there was a lady on grey some years ago whos hang on was even more amazing!!

 

[Dusty85]

Someone's elses also inflated when they pitched up their horses neck (can't remember who, it was a guy) but I'm pretty sure they carried on?

 

[ycbm]

Someone's elses also inflated when they pitched up their horses neck (can't remember who, it was a guy) but I'm pretty sure they carried on?

I saw one carry on and one stop. If I was competing at that level, I'd have a set of numbers on under my air jacket and just take it off and carry on. It takes a long time to go down.

With the second guy, I thought it was possibly that he needs to add an inch or so to his lanyard. The first one was a proper fall, he only stayed on because he pushed himself back off the fence, so his went off properly.

I do agree though, the pro version needs a fast deflate plug!

 

[stormclouds]

We were sat watching it by the lake, so well sat. He did retire yeah, was gutted for him.

 

[Polos Mum]

Dusty85 - you're right there was a guy in Green who's went off, he carried on for a few more fences but then retired I think (or his horse ran out because he couldn't rider properly in it) - pretty hard to ride at that level wrapped in an airbag.
I'm sure they'll work on a deflate facility if there were two retirements because of it

 

[Dusty85]

There is still such divided opinion about them and I don't think what went on yesterday was an especially good advert for them!

 

[stormox]

I thought there seemed to be a lot less people wearing air jackets yesterday than there did the past couple of years...

 

[Bernster]

I have always seen them as a one shot jackets once they've gone off you no longer have that protection. But then I'm not likely to carry on jumping after a fall so it's never been a big deal. I agree, this does suggest a different design might be needed for when it goes off but you haven't fallen. And the fact it deflates over time is no good when you're whizzing around badminton!

 

[ycbm]

I thought there seemed to be a lot less people wearing air jackets yesterday than there did the past couple of years...

I think a lot more were wearing the integrated one, where you can't see the airbag. You have to spot the lanyard

 

[only_me]

Was he wearing the hybrid one, the one which is air jacket & BP? That may have been the reason he retired, as as soon as he undid the buckles then he technically wasn't wearing a BP.

If it had been a air jacket over a normal BP then he probably would have just taken air jacket off and continued with BP imo

 

[FfionWinnie]

I suppose they need a reversal system to suck it back into the canister so it can work again. They won't want that as then you wouldn't need to buy any more canisters

 

[D66]

I thought his number was attached to the air jacket, so if he took it off he would have to refix the number before continuing. Some one did try to continue but he only got a few jumps further before retiring.

 

[fidleyspromise]

I think they do have a normal one underneath - problem is you can't breath or bend in an inflated one so riding XC probably impossible!

Interesting situation as with a normal one he might have completed?? - I'm sure they will now have to invent a fast deflate toggle ! pro riders won't want to have to quit just because of a near miss and those happen more often than you'd think over the years - there was a lady on grey some years ago whos hang on was even more amazing!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3496C7WwE

this?

 

[katymay]

He did really well to stay on but it was painful to watch him trying to haul himself back on via his horses mouth imo
he was the first rider we saw at the water jump, definitely staying at home and watching on telly next year!

 

[Red-1]

I wondered if he had retired as presumably he crossed his tracks whilst circling..... I think I counted 3 circles?

I have accidentally set off a jacket, and it did not deflate quickly. Happily it was at the finish where I was so delighted I sprang from my horse to hug hum, and merely astonished him with the bang. No way could I have continued.

A quick deflate toggle would be excellent. A lack of one was why I would not consider an all in one.

 

[Red-1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du3496C7WwE

this?

Now that is grit and determination!!!!

 

[Magnetic Sparrow]

The event officials tend to take a dim view of anyone trying to continue cross country in an inflated air jacket.

 

[Golden_Match_II]

You have to wear a body protector underneath an air jacket eventing, but air jackets aren't compulsory. Obviously there is an issue with the combined BPs and AJs, which I believe is the reason these haven't really taken off.

Niklas Bschorer retired at the water - I suspect he might have chosen to do this even if he hadn't been wearing an air jacket. He's 20, it was his first badminton, and it was a very near miss - he probably wanted to save his horse as it is a big confidence knock to have that happen early in the course.

Michael Owen was the other rider who's jacket inflated - he attempted to carry on but it looked as though the pair's confidence had been shaken, and so after a few more fences he also pulled up.

I suspect it's just a strange coincidence that they both happened to have the same issue yesterday, rather than a fundamental flaw in the jackets. I've fallen off XC in a jacket, and just took it off and carried on with my BP. Personally, I only wear my jacket if I'm competing above Novice level - it's quite bulky and frankly irritating when you fall off and are winded and have to faff around with it before jumping back on and sorting the problem out. I'm lucky in that I've never had a major fall XC (more just slithering off pathetically) so I've never really needed more protection that a BP.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Now that is grit and determination!!!!

Love how the horse stands like a rock until she's back on then says let's go human!

 

[EventingMum]

I'm sure point two jackets have a dump value to deflate them more quickly.

 

[Honey08]

With the second guy, I thought it was possibly that he needs to add an inch or so to his lanyard. The first one was a proper fall, he only stayed on because he pushed himself back off the fence, so his went off properly.

I do agree though, the pro version needs a fast deflate plug!

The one that inflated because he bounced on the horse's neck probably had nothing to do with the lanyard, but more to do with the impact. They inflate on heavy impact like a car's airbag. There are times when horses fall with the rider and the airbag still goes off due to the impact,

 

[LeannePip]

Niklas did well to hang on after that - think he made a wise choice in calling it a day, he's young, the horse is nice and there is always another badminton, but a relatively inexperienced 4* combination continuing after a confidence knock like that is not wise!

The one that inflated because he bounced on the horse's neck probably had nothing to do with the lanyard, but more to do with the impact. They inflate on heavy impact like a car's airbag. There are times when horses fall with the rider and the airbag still goes off due to the impact,

I've never heard of the air bags inflating on impact otherwise they would have to have pressure sensors on them? - they only inflate when the lanyard becomes detached hence setting off the canister and filling the jacket with air?

 

[Honey08]

I don't know the science, but they do seem to inflate on impact otherwise they'd be useless in most rotational falls where the horse and the saddle comes with the rider... That one where he went up the neck didn't look as though he went very far out of the saddle at all, so I doubt the lanyard pulled.

 

[bluebellfreddy]

he was eliminated anyway for using the fence to get back on, his was defiantly separate and we doing buckles, the combined one has a zip.

Micheal Owen tried to continue, but the horse looked very shaken from the stop and he was just not going for the rider.

I am pretty sure they only inflate when the lanyard detaches. That is why you have problems when the rider falls with the horse, they don't go off.

 

[Honey08]

That's interesting, I stand corrected. I thought it would be common sense that they'd need to inflate on impact as well as via the lanyard.

 

[ycbm]

The one that inflated because he bounced on the horse's neck probably had nothing to do with the lanyard, but more to do with the impact. They inflate on heavy impact like a car's airbag. There are times when horses fall with the rider and the airbag still goes off due to the impact,

Unless my six month old jacket is already out of date, the only way they inflate is of the ball on the end of the lanyard is pulled out of its socket. It is physically impossible for the hammer to move to pierce the top of the canister unless the ball has gone.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sure point two jackets have a dump value to deflate them more quickly.

Mine definitely doesn't. It's a really difficult design challenge to make one that won't be activated by accident. I'm not sure we'll see one any time soon.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't know the science, but they do seem to inflate on impact otherwise they'd be useless in most rotational falls where the horse and the saddle comes with the rider... That one where he went up the neck didn't look as though he went very far out of the saddle at all, so I doubt the lanyard pulled.

I'm not sure about the newest airbags, but I think them not inflating in rotational falls was one of the big concerns when they were first developed.

 

[teapot]

I don't know the science, but they do seem to inflate on impact otherwise they'd be useless in most rotational falls where the horse and the saddle comes with the rider... That one where he went up the neck didn't look as though he went very far out of the saddle at all, so I doubt the lanyard pulled.

It's solely lanyard and how long you have it (ie long enough not to go off when you're competing, but short enough to go off if you move beyond a certain point), which is why there's so much debate about how useful they really are in the event of a rotational fall.

They'd be a bloody nightmare if it was done on impact... imagine accidentally stepping on it in the lorry.