No idea where to go with this....

6

6ottie

New User
Joined
15 September 2011
Messages
9
Visit site
This is my first time posting, I am absolutely desperate for any ideas/support with what to do about my horses behaviour.
He has always had very random behaviour in the stable, when tied up and also in the field (so basically everywhere!) This includes rearing, bucking, charging at the door (in stable) fence running, head tossing, leg twitching and strange mouth movements.
The only time he acts normal is when he is being exercised. He literally does none of the above and loves his work!
I have owned him from a foal (now 17) and his behaviour has been constant throughout his life although we have 'good and bad' spells.
My issue is that this behaviour is getting more consistent to the point where we very rarely have a good day anymore.
It is extremely distressing for me to see him in such a state and I cant find a way to help him. There is no Patten. Some days things are fine and other days the world is ending for him.
I have tried everything I can possibly think of to help.
He is seen regularly for back, teeth and saddle. He has minor arthritic changes in his neck however I wouldn't be surprised after the way he consistently throws his head around (this is not your typical head shaking, he literally propellers his head round - all year round) it is so fast and vigorous that I can only imagine it to be very painful for him to do.
3 vets have checked him over and all believe it to be behaviour related but are unable to pin point the problem.
Has anyone else had a horse like this?
I am at the point where people on the yard are saying horrible things because his behaviour is stressful for those around him but I honestly don't know what else to do.
I have tried sedation but he needs such a large amount to actually calm him that it's long a long term solution.
Sorry for the essay but just wondering if there is anyone else that has dealt with something like this? I can't understand why he is getting worse.
 
In all that time has he ever moved yards? What’s his turnout situation like and who with.
 
He has been on 4 yards during his life and his behaviour has been the same at each one. Although one yard he was particularly worse but then did settle better after a few months.
He won't stay out in the field during winter (jumps over fencing to come in) but currently is out all day and shortly will swap to being out at night.
He is turned out with one other horse who he has known for 6 years and is his best buddy.
At present, he will settle in the field for the day but is extremely distressed coming in at night. He is surrounded by other horses in the stable and can even see his field mate but will not settle.
Even to eat, he will grab a mouth full and then throw his head around for a while before getting another mouthful.
 
Only 3 vets in 17 years?
Have you followed up with a behaviourist or asked for a vet to consult with a horsepital?

It feels like you could be describing trigeminal nerve disorder but I'm assuming your previous vets have ruled out all other potential causes (allergies, sight or hearing issues, pain, discomfort elsewhere) and I don't know what else has been ruled out and how many times.
 
I have just retired my boy with neck arthritis. His behaviour became unpredictable as he was in pain due to his nerves being impacted and exhibiting neurological symptoms. I wouldn’t think that would be the case with yours if he’s behaving riding. Have vets suggested Bute trials to see if behaviour improves?
 
3 vets in the last year as starting to become more consistent and I am unable to calm him like I used to be able to.
I haven't tried a behaviour specialist but this may be worth a try, I am just sceptical of this but would be willing to try this route if it was through word of mouth reccomendation.
Absolutely no issues being ridden hence why vets say it's behaviour. Interestingly of the 3 vets that have seen him recently, all said they hadn't ever seen his exact type of behaviour.
One has suggested sending videos to a neurological specialist - could try this?
Orange and Lemon - what is a horsepital?
Scrapster - yes we have tried Bute (currently trying again) but doesn't make any difference. He has also been scoped recently with very minor grade ulcers so had gastroguard.
As mentioned, some days he is perfect all day and acts completely normal and other days is extremely distressed but I can't work out why. No change in routine ect.
Thanks for suggestions.
 
I have a horse who displays various biazzre behaviours I could crash the internet explaining in detail his antics around stabling turnout and food .
He will eat something for a prolonged period the next act like its poison and then eat something he would reverse away from six months earlier sometimes you can’t keep up with his likes and dislikes .
Where he wants to be is where he has be that might be in or out we did eighteen months non stabling at one point now he’s into the stable again he went through a period of being bad to shoe then just turned back to being perfect .
He has all sorts of bizarre antics in the stable around where he like things in the stable the water bucket has to be where he likes it or there’s hell to pay then he suddenly decide he wants it somewhere else . I could go on and on and on .
He jumps out of fields and into them he wants hay in one place in the field then looks at you as though you’re mad when you put it there
It’s like a form of equine autism .
He’s 18 and I have owned him for decade and he’s been almost normal through to so maddening I have considered sending him to the kennels in that period we are in a relatively normal period atm .
He’s a very lively ride .
 
Goldenstar said:
I have a horse who displays various biazzre behaviours I could crash the internet explaining in detail his antics around stabling turnout and food .
He will eat something for a prolonged period the next act like its poison and then eat something he would reverse away from six months earlier sometimes you can’t keep up with his likes and dislikes .
Where he wants to be is where he has be that might be in or out we did eighteen months non stabling at one point now he’s into the stable again he went through a period of being bad to shoe then just turned back to being perfect .
He has all sorts of bizarre antics in the stable around where he like things in the stable the water bucket has to be where he likes it or there’s hell to pay then he suddenly decide he wants it somewhere else . I could go on and on and on .
He jumps out of fields and into them he wants hay in one place in the field then looks at you as though you’re mad when you put it there
It’s like a form of equine autism .
He’s 18 and I have owned him for decade and he’s been almost normal through to so maddening I have considered sending him to the kennels in that period we are in a relatively normal period atm .
He’s a very lively ride .
Click to expand...

This sounds just like him. Very random behaviour that I can't keep up with! As mentioned he has been seen by multiple vets (another next week for another opinion) but all say it is behaviour related as he turns it on and off. If he's tied up and I'm grooming him and then walk away, he will throw the most enormous tantrum until I am touching him again.
There are days when he drives me to to despair and then he's completely normal the next day!
Thank you for sharing your story, I feel so alone with this problem and can never find anyone in a similar situation.
 
It is extremely unusual that his behaviour is so extreme yet does not show when ridden, most horses are worse ridden if it is pain related so I can see why the vets are stumped and think it is behavioural rather than a veterinary issue but it does sound so severe that I find it hard to think a horse can behave this way just because it can yet still enjoys being ridden and has "normal" days.
Have you looked into his diet, there could be something he lacks, or has too much of that could affect him but again why not under saddle, I would probably get a behaviourist in just for an opinion as sometimes they take a more holistic view than the average vet and may pick up on something that has been missed or at least give you a few more ideas to look into before you decide to call it a day.
 
Another who's stumped! If he'd displayed any of those behaviours under saddle, I'd think that he sounded like a prime candidate for trigeminal neuralgia, but riding would exacerbate that, not soothe/resolve it!
 
I too find tis exceptional and strange. I question whether it is dietary because after this length of time ,the body adjusts to what is available .Nevertheless ,and with extreme doubt ,I would supplement magnesium. Also ,at his age ,if it were neurological ,I would have expected him to be long gone. Sad but true. Love him as he is and enjoy the good times to the full,they are precious few with horses.
 
Does he have a best mate or anything that calms him down? I always feel awful for our domestic horses, they are at our whim of what yard we prefer, what the yard says about turnout, they may make best mates with a fellow livery who is then sold on. I am surprised more horses don't react like the OP's tbh :(
 
Has he always been on DIY livery with you, or has he been on part/full and therefore had to deal with different people and different methods?
 
I've seen a few horses that exhibit odd behaviour in the stable and during grooming, but are find when tacked up and when ridden.

Kermesse, who left the yard when the management team changed, was a real lead-swinger.

The first time I was rostered to ride him, he looked at me as I opened the door and entered his stable, he backed away from me into the wall, when his rump touched it, he fell with his shoulder against it and slid down it like a drunk until he was laying on the floor.

I went back to the instructor, thinking he was ill, and she came back with me. "Get up, Kermesse!". He got up, I tacked him up, and he was fine. It was just something he did. I was told that sometimes, he pretends to be ill; you pretend to give him medicine and he miraculously gets better. But in tack and while ridden, he's a serious worker. A tad on the small side for me, though, so I didn't ride him often, and never for jumps or trail rides.

Maude and Dunapril, two moody and hormonal mares that I often ride, don't like being groomed. Neither likes having her hooves cleaned, but Dunapril is really difficult about the back ones. Maude bites at the air an inch or two away from your arm to try to frighten you. But put the bridle and saddle on, and they will stand much more calmly, and Maude will lift her feet easily. Again, both are good workers and I usually take them for jumping classes.

Another two that left the yard with the management change used to constantly play with the top bolt on the stable door, sliding it open and shut. One of the two used to also stick his head out and wave it left and right for a minute or two, before going back to playing with the bolt.
 
Mine did this. He was utterly claustrophobic in enclosed stables, previously okay-ish in an open barn type scenario but not too happy. You couldn't tie him up and leave him, either. I think the trigger for him blowing his mind was a big storm and the lightning hit the metal roof and electrified the metal bits. What really sent him over the edge were the barstewards next door who had a fireworks party every night for a week. In the end he was thrown out into a big field with a herd and left to get on with things as he was recovering from some horrific injuries from a field accident. He adjusted to being out 24/7 very quickly.
 
Have you had your horse tested for allergies / food or other intolerances / blood tests & all the other tests they can do ? If everything that can be tested has been tested by a vet & the only thing left is behaviour then maybe you need a specialist. Maybe your horse doesn’t display this behaviour when ridden because he is actively engaged in doing something he enjoys & finds stimulating. The rest of the time could be behaviour to keep himself entertained.
 
tankgirl1 said:
Does he have a best mate or anything that calms him down? I always feel awful for our domestic horses, they are at our whim of what yard we prefer, what the yard says about turnout, they may make best mates with a fellow livery who is then sold on. I am surprised more horses don't react like the OP's tbh :(
Click to expand...

Yes he is turned out with his best mate everyday in summer and in a sand pen during winter. They are very playful together and have been with each other for about 6 years now.
 
Mari said:
Have you had your horse tested for allergies / food or other intolerances / blood tests & all the other tests they can do ? If everything that can be tested has been tested by a vet & the only thing left is behaviour then maybe you need a specialist. Maybe your horse doesn’t display this behaviour when ridden because he is actively engaged in doing something he enjoys & finds stimulating. The rest of the time could be behaviour to keep himself entertained.
Click to expand...

Yes he has had blood and allergy tests as well as being scoped. I do honestly believe it is behaviour issues as do the vets that have seen him. I do agree that perhaps exercise distracts him and as mentioned, he loves to work and is very willing to please. He also really loves being on the walker and would happily stay there all day long. I think I may need to go down a behaviour specialist route but not sure where to even begin with it!
 
I'd be inclined, after looking at the symptoms described, to say "pain", but OP has done everything possible to eliminate this.

And if the horse is OK ridden, that would discount a helluva lot of pain issues.

As someone else has suggested, it may be worth asking someone who's able to think outside the box to have a look at this horse and see what they come up with.

Is he dangerous to handle? Is he unmanageable? If not, then you may just have to accept this is one heck of a quirky horse and the weird behaviour is just him and it may be a question of just accepting it and letting him get on with it, particularly if, as you say, he's fine under saddle! .......... however, if he becomes difficult and/or dangerous to handle, or if he gets noticeably worse and issues under saddle start becoming evident, then (sorry, sorry, sorry), if the vets can't find anything physically wrong you may just have to be prepared to make a tough decision, bearing in mind his age. Sorry, I didn't want to say that, but deep down in your heart of hearts I think you will have that thought there too.

But, gaarrghhh....... I still have this hunch there's a pain issue somewhere......... perhaps a tooth or summat that's giving him occasional gip but not there all the time? Or a periodic occasional pain somewhere? Just a thought, and its easy to throw good money after bad, I know, but it might be worth getting someone who's got a more "physical" approach to have a look rather than a vet who's more clinical, like a McTimoney practitioner or Bowen for e.g.

Hoping you can solve this mystery! Oh and I would ignore what others are saying; this is YOUR horse and you obviously are very fond of him, and it is none of anyone else's business!

Oh (edited), again thinking outside of the box, but it may be worth a punt to ask a "communicator" to ask this horse what's going on for him. Yes OK so I know there is a possibility of having someone who's a total charlatan, but it might, just might, give you some insight, and be a worthwhile exercise. I don't know where you are in the country, but if going this route you'd be advised to ask around for good recommendations. I've got a lovely book by a lady called Julie Dicker who was a horse communicator, and in her book she describes how a lot of horses are in pain and/or distress and don't know how to communicate it. Julie is passed away unfortunately, but I know a very sceptical friend who had a communicator in to "talk" with her old mare, who told her a heck of a lot of stuff that was true and that no-one else could have known. Anyway, I throw this in the pot; just think its worth a punt and its what I'd do.
 
Last edited:
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
I'd be inclined, after looking at the symptoms described, to say "pain", but OP has done everything possible to eliminate this.

And if the horse is OK ridden, that would discount a helluva lot of pain issues.

As someone else has suggested, it may be worth asking someone who's able to think outside the box to have a look at this horse and see what they come up with.

Is he dangerous to handle? Is he unmanageable? If not, then you may just have to accept this is one heck of a quirky horse and the weird behaviour is just him and it may be a question of just accepting it and letting him get on with it, particularly if, as you say, he's fine under saddle! .......... however, if he becomes difficult and/or dangerous to handle, or if he gets noticeably worse and issues under saddle start becoming evident, then (sorry, sorry, sorry), if the vets can't find anything physically wrong you may just have to be prepared to make a tough decision, bearing in mind his age. Sorry, I didn't want to say that, but deep down in your heart of hearts I think you will have that thought there too.

But, gaarrghhh....... I still have this hunch there's a pain issue somewhere......... perhaps a tooth or summat that's giving him occasional gip but not there all the time? Or a periodic occasional pain somewhere? Just a thought, and its easy to throw good money after bad, I know, but it might be worth getting someone who's got a more "physical" approach to have a look rather than a vet who's more clinical, like a McTimoney practitioner or Bowen for e.g.

Hoping you can solve this mystery! Oh and I would ignore what others are saying; this is YOUR horse and you obviously are very fond of him, and it is none of anyone else's business!

Oh (edited), again thinking outside of the box, but it may be worth a punt to ask a "communicator" to ask this horse what's going on for him. Yes OK so I know there is a possibility of having someone who's a total charlatan, but it might, just might, give you some insight, and be a worthwhile exercise. I don't know where you are in the country, but if going this route you'd be advised to ask around for good recommendations. I've got a lovely book by a lady called Julie Dicker who was a horse communicator, and in her book she describes how a lot of horses are in pain and/or distress and don't know how to communicate it. Julie is passed away unfortunately, but I know a very sceptical friend who had a communicator in to "talk" with her old mare, who told her a heck of a lot of stuff that was true and that no-one else could have known. Anyway, I throw this in the pot; just think its worth a punt and its what I'd do.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all these suggestions. I absolutely adore this horse but always swing between excepting his quirky behaviour and feeling terribly guilty that perhaps there is something wrong and I just can't work out what.

I wouldn't call him dangerous but you definitely need to be competent around horses to not be scared of him when he is jumping around (because he is actually a softy) he would never intentionally hurt you. I wouldn't just let anyone handle him but I definitely wouldn't class him as dangerous...Just exuberant! Surprising he never seems to hurt himself It's all very planned out I feel - He throws his head milimetres from the top of the stable door but never hits it and rears in the stable but very slowly and very controlled ect.

The only way I would say he is 'unmanagable' is because of the distress it puts on me seeing him stressed and not being able to help/understand. I absolutely adore him but find his behaviour very upsetting and as mentioned, there is no pattern so I have spent endless hours trying to figure this out. (I hope that doesn't sound selfish!)
He will stop when I am next to him but will go mad when I step away....surely that can't be pain? I spend lots of time worrying about him and wondering if he has a brain tumour or something similar but my vet said he wouldn't be ok to ride and would be showing other signs.

I am sceptical about a communicator but maybe this is the next step. I wish he could just tell me he is actually ok (even if it means he is just a little crazy!!)

Vet back out again next week so will update then.

Thanks again :)
 
Have you tried keeping a detailed diary? Weather, so temperature, wind - speed and direction, sunny/cloudy/rain etc. Feed, including any treats. Routine, so when in/out, which mates were out with him/next to him. Anything else that may have occurred - field maintenance, or aircraft, or a shoot nearby. You get the picture.

OH's pony had a complete tantrum when I put her in a stable. Rearing and boxing the door, charging around and getting herself worked right up. She had to have a weeks box rest, so I put up a stall chain so I could leave the door open. Still not terribly happy about it, but not feeling quite so trapped helper her out with that. She's a funny old thing - very particular!

Horsepital = horse hospital.
 
Could it be something as simple as seperation anxiety? He’s fine out with his friend or when you are with him but starts when left ‘alone’?

I’d definitely look to a professional who can decipher his behaviour. You really have nothing lose at this point.
 
I was going to say some form of separation anxiety. My mare used to go nutty and stressy when either one of her friends were taken out on exercise, all manner of snorting, head tossing. Eventually I worked out it was me she was stressing about. This is going to sound weird but I watched a Ceasar Milan programme and although it was about dogs I tried the same approach to the mare. It worked perfectly.

Another time when I was working on a stud a visiting mare arrived, she was so stressy and reactive. Her owner was worried how she would settle - I was worried as well as had never seen such a stressy horse. She managed to rear and smash her head on the stable roof, then race round the box, rear again and smash her head, race round, rear again. It was awful. Owner left. Horse calmed down completely and was a complete poppet. No more head smashing, no stressing. Very interesting, the owner didn't appear to be feeding the problem at all but clearly was.
 
I wonder if you'd gain any insights if you put a heart rate monitor on him for a couple of days. I would expect a truly stressful situation to be reflected in an elevated heart rate. If he's just "putting on" the behaviour to entertain himself, probably less so. Maybe it would flag up situations that really stress him out, or might confirm your impression that his behaviour is completely erratic, going from normal to abnormal very suddenly and without obvious provocation. Maybe it could help you work out some patterns (if there are any to be found) and identify what sort of routine keeps him happiest.
 
I was talking to Sarah McCorquodale a couple of years ago and she told me about this chap who had a very serious accident and on recovery found he had the ability to communicate with horses. Now Lady Sarah is not an intimate buddy of mine but she struck me as a very sensible and sane woman and she believed in him whole heartedly having evidenced his abilities with her own eyes. She is joint master of the Belvoir or Quorn or one of those Lincolnshire / Leicestershire packs so should be easy enough to get hold of. Surely it is worth a try with an open mind? I live next to a stud farm and often see this chap in the lane checking on the horses. He has a similar story except he got injured in Northern Ireland and subsequently developed a communicating gift.
 
May be way off the mark here but could it be some sort of deficiency, such as a mineral? Mine was a different sort of nightmare when he was deficient in magnesium, there are other minerals which have a profound effect on their behaviour.
Salt for one (have a read here, doesn't sound like the same symptoms but would be easy enough to rule out by adding a tbs salt to his daily feed http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/solution/salt.html).
Otherwise speak to Forageplus about a forage or soil analysis? Not likely given his different yards over the years but could be a deficiency common to an area. Magnesium is.
And look at the grazing/forage for any chemicals, fertilizers etc. as you seem to have ruled out most other things
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top