"No martingale and a simple snaffle bridle"

[oldie48]

This. Several riders said when interviewed that you don't know how a horse will react to the atmosphere at a big show and these, will be, in the main very hot competition horses. i'm not surprised riders want a running martingale and for horses that can get very strong, a double bridle. I always hack in a running martingale and a slightly stronger bit, I don't expect to need either but I'm not in control of the situations i might meet when hacking out. my horse is a big strong sensitive chap, who is usually well mannered but he's a horse not a saint so having a martingale to grab hold of and a stronger bit to say, hey just wait for me, is a sensible precaution not an admission that he's poorly educated or that I'm a useless rider!

I think until you are the rider jumping a Grand Prix track on each individual horse in question - then I think it can be very unfair to comment on the choice of bit/tack. I just seriously doubt these top level riders make these decisions on a whim - I know everyone is talking about training/management etc but I think of everyone they have the money/backing and experience to make the right decisions for their horses - they have probably tried various things before arriving at the thing that works for that horse. The OP said its a shame its not the norm rather than the exception but dont forget these horses are not the norm - they are the exception, not every horse has the talent or scope to jump a track that big in that atmosphere & behave the way these exceptional horses do.

I think its all well and good to criticise from the sidelines & talk about experiences we have with our horses but every horse, every rider and every skillset is completely different.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

This^^
Although I do agree I hate to see everything bitted up to the max but can't see the problem with a correctly fitted and used running martingale??

me neither! I wouldn't school in one but use one out hacking if I feel it necessary.

 

[happyclappy]

I agree it should be the norm, it would be nice but will never happen again.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Horses for courses as they say. I ride in simple tack, snaffle, no noseband if hacking and saddle. Although if we're were out and about in company which is when I would get any cheek if he were to try it, the grackle goes on and a hunter breastplate without the martingale goe on for security and that is all the additions we get.

He used to need his loopring snaffle or Dr Bristol but those days are behind him now I think lol

I don't judge what the profs ride their horses in. Sometimes I think WTF is that bit of tack but who am I to judge really lol

 

[Auslander]

Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

 

[Grumpy Herbert]

I think until you are the rider jumping a Grand Prix track on each individual horse in question - then I think it can be very unfair to comment on the choice of bit/tack. I just seriously doubt these top level riders make these decisions on a whim - I know everyone is talking about training/management etc but I think of everyone they have the money/backing and experience to make the right decisions for their horses - they have probably tried various things before arriving at the thing that works for that horse. The OP said its a shame its not the norm rather than the exception but dont forget these horses are not the norm - they are the exception, not every horse has the talent or scope to jump a track that big in that atmosphere & behave the way these exceptional horses do.

I think its all well and good to criticise from the sidelines & talk about experiences we have with our horses but every horse, every rider and every skillset is completely different.

I would never claim for one nanosecond that I could do even a fraction of what those riders do, they are phenomenal. I know the stakes are high, and if an item of tack helps them to achieve the precision needed to get the best end result, then so be it that's their call. I am well aware that these horses are the exception and not the norm and that not all horses have the talent and scope etc. etc. - have been around horses long enough to figure that one out! Wouldn't it be an interesting experiment, though, if every rider HAD to compete in a simple snaffle and no martingale?

My observation was simply that it was refreshing to see a horse in the most basic of tack competing, and succeeding. I don't think that observation is particularly unfair, nor do I think for one minute that any of those riders give a flying fart what my opinion is!!

 

[blowsbubbles]

I turned up to a lesson once with new instructor, she had out ready for me a double bridle, curb chain which she wanted to put on my horse (who wears a French snaffle) before even seeing how we rode\ knowing anything about us. I ve never even tried a double bridle before so also would nt have any idea about holding onto to two reins. Suffice to say I refused and we shan't be going back for any more lessons!
Less is more IMO

 

[DanceswithCows]

Wouldn't it be an interesting experiment, though, if every rider HAD to compete in a simple snaffle and no martingale?

Yes - I don't really agree with the whole 'if it gets the job done, so be it' idea. I am kinda bothered about welfare in horse sport and although I realise it's radical, if I were Queen of All Horse Sport anything else would be banned and if you can't compete without, tough, and if the overall standard is lower, tough! So long as you have a level playing field, whatever you get from the animals is whatever you get and the best individuals will rise to the top. I actually think dressage should be done completely tackless!

 

[debserofe]

My horses came with various types of bits, martingales and drop or flash nosebands. The bits were cranked up in their mouths and all of them ran through the bridle! My horses are now all ridden in sweet iron bits, no nosebands or martingales and don't run through the bridle, which means that I can't ride them in a dressage test - but apparently you can ride in a double bridle with a curb, a drop or flash noseband - in fact it is hard to find a bridle without a drop or flash, such is the fashion! Surely you should be able to ride your horse in a dressage test with less tack, not more, as it is supposed to be show obedience to the aids (the more subtle the better), relaxation and suppleness not how much it takes to hold your horses in an outline and how much it jumps off the spur into that bit! Saying that it is not the bit that is bad but the hands that operate it but I do believe that some of the bits, gadgets used are more about getting a quick result and fashion and until Judges are able to include marks on for 'less is more' and over use of tack, nothing will change. People also need to be safe and sometimes a 'stronger' bit is called for but it should be a short term thing, only until they can get a horse operating off a feel, only then will they feel truly safe - a harsher bit could actually be detrimental in that a horse will run from pain! I actually wrote for one judge who agreed with the horses owner that it was being a pig because there was no impulsion - quite frankly the horse had shut down and looked dead in the eye - no partnership there, the owner made it quite clear that he had been an expensive mistake! If I had had the money, I would have bought that horse and taken it home!!!

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

^^ this. i hate flashes, if i can do without a noseband, i will

however, my last lad went perfectly in a link snaffle, kinnerton noseband and running martingale. i could also ride and school bareback in a headcollar, (and often did) and when hacking I have a loose contact, light contact through the legs and spend most of the time neck reining.

the kinnerton and martingale were merely there in case we had a problem. he was soft mouthed, and i liked it that way!
the martingale was mainly for hacking, if only because the 2 times i deliberately left it off, the little sod KNEW, and whilst i COULD still stop him, it took more strength than i would have without the martingale-- so i decided i would rather the martingale, than wreck his mouth!

basically, my point is, i try my damnedest to find the right combination for my horses, but if I do have something stronger, its a preventive rather than a lazy- easier than schooling- choice, and most of the time it wont come into effect on the horse until i need it, simply because of the way i ride.

my new one is sharp, and super sensitive in her mouth, so im looking to find a softer/better bit for her (shes in the french link atm) BUT i will need the martingale, i think, as she throws her head when she is upset and is VERY much a wuss, but i will judge it as i go along- if she doesnt need one, all the better. ive a feeling she'll go brilliantly in my hackamore though

Agree with this sincerely! Each horse is different, and if a horse is happy in say, a pelham & flash with a martingale, and it does need it, then I don't think we should criticise people for using them.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

I think until you are the rider jumping a Grand Prix track on each individual horse in question - then I think it can be very unfair to comment on the choice of bit/tack. I just seriously doubt these top level riders make these decisions on a whim - I know everyone is talking about training/management etc but I think of everyone they have the money/backing and experience to make the right decisions for their horses - they have probably tried various things before arriving at the thing that works for that horse. The OP said its a shame its not the norm rather than the exception but dont forget these horses are not the norm - they are the exception, not every horse has the talent or scope to jump a track that big in that atmosphere & behave the way these exceptional horses do.

I think its all well and good to criticise from the sidelines & talk about experiences we have with our horses but every horse, every rider and every skillset is completely different.

^^ Very well put LO.

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Yes - I don't really agree with the whole 'if it gets the job done, so be it' idea. I am kinda bothered about welfare in horse sport and although I realise it's radical, if I were Queen of All Horse Sport anything else would be banned and if you can't compete without, tough, and if the overall standard is lower, tough!

I don't think that's fair at all. Just because one person can ride without a snaffle & martingale doesn't mean they all can. If you really know horses, then you'll know that each horse is an individual, and thus riding in a snaffle doesn't work for every horse.

One of our horses for example, can be ridden in a snaffle or headcoller, with no martingale, noseband, no anything. And then another of
our horses has to be ridden in a military driving bit, martingale & noseband, because she's INCREDIBLY strong, she throws her head in the air a lot, hitting you in the face.

Each & every horse in an individual, and so should be treated like one. I wouldn't like to go to a yard and see all the horses in snaffles, if they're unhappy, nor go to a yard and see them all in gags, if they're not happy.

Bit the horse in front of you, not what everybody thinks they should wear.

 

[BeingKate]

I think same applies to dressage - the welsh cob in the USA made history in a way by winning a Grand Prix test in a snaffle bridle. Whilst I know many riders will keep their horses in doubles for dressage, which I have nothing against, time for the FEI to change the rules to allow snaffles at top level dressage too!

 

[DanceswithCows]

I don't think that's fair at all. Just because one person can ride without a snaffle & martingale doesn't mean they all can. If you really know horses, then you'll know that each horse is an individual, and thus riding in a snaffle doesn't work for every horse.

It's not really about 'working' - under my scenario, only the horses that could compete without gadgets would be there. We know more gadgetry can crank a less than obedient horse into obedience...I don't want to see that, I only want to see the genuinely obedient ones, the trainers who can operate a horse with barely discernable aids, a horse that has a choice and won't face pain or restriction for the wrong 'answer' - that's the real skill for me. The riders concerned would all have to work their asses off to achieve it if they wanted to compete. Sorry if that offends anyone but it's how I am!

 

[oldie48]

Blimey! we wouldn't have BS or BE as there would be so few competitors everything would run at a complete loss, we might just scrape through with BD but if flashes and drop nosebands were banned it might be a bit of a stretch. Yes of course it's wonderful to see horses being ridden with lightness throughness complete relaxation etc etc in a plain snaffle, galloping XC and coming back to their rider with just the seat and a light touch of the rein, problem is, you don't see that many if any!!?Sometimes i read posts and feel like giving up because I'm not a perfect rider and then I look around and see riders just like me, not perfect but doing the best they can and quite grateful for a bit of help!

It's not really about 'working' - under my scenario, only the horses that could compete without gadgets would be there. We know more gadgetry can crank a less than obedient horse into obedience...I don't want to see that, I only want to see the genuinely obedient ones, the trainers who can operate a horse with barely discernable aids, a horse that has a choice and won't face pain or restriction for the wrong 'answer' - that's the real skill for me. The riders concerned would all have to work their asses off to achieve it if they wanted to compete. Sorry if that offends anyone but it's how I am!

 

[EquiEquestrian556]

Blimey! we wouldn't have BS or BE as there would be so few competitors everything would run at a complete loss, we might just scrape through with BD but if flashes and drop nosebands were banned it might be a bit of a stretch. Yes of course it's wonderful to see horses being ridden with lightness throughness complete relaxation etc etc in a plain snaffle, galloping XC and coming back to their rider with just the seat and a light touch of the rein, problem is, you don't see that many if any!!?Sometimes i read posts and feel like giving up because I'm not a perfect rider and then I look around and see riders just like me, not perfect but doing the best they can and quite grateful for a bit of help!

Well put oldie48. If your horse is happy, then in that sense it's no one else's business what our horses wear.

 

[Jaycee]

Just to say I loved the comment during his round in the Grand Prix to the effect that he hadn't even bothered with a bit today, just a little hackamore and it would be no surprise to see him turn up next year and jump in just a headcollar!

 

[DanceswithCows]

Blimey! we wouldn't have BS or BE as there would be so few competitors everything would run at a complete loss, we might just scrape through with BD but if flashes and drop nosebands were banned it might be a bit of a stretch. Yes of course it's wonderful to see horses being ridden with lightness throughness complete relaxation etc etc in a plain snaffle, galloping XC and coming back to their rider with just the seat and a light touch of the rein, problem is, you don't see that many if any!!?Sometimes i read posts and feel like giving up because I'm not a perfect rider and then I look around and see riders just like me, not perfect but doing the best they can and quite grateful for a bit of help!

Good job I'm not queen yet then

Seriously though, I'm not the world's best rider by a loooooong shot, riding without tack is not about skill of riding but more skill of training, taking that time with the animal, no shortcuts.

 

[spotty_pony]

I agree. Luca is a rider to be admired - I watched him win one of the big Grand Prix classes at Olympia in 2012. He is such a quiet rider, and really appreciates his horses which is lovely to see as it is so rarely seen among the top levels, especially in Show Jumping.

 

[tangoharvey]

The kids at our yard are all hoping for five point breastplates, when I asked why the answer I got was because they look nice!!!

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I hate ill fitting tack whether it is a noseband a saddle or a martingale. I think the fitting and the riding matters more than the tack. But I myself ride in as simple tack as possible and so do my kids, who like showing where you have to keep things simple anyway. I also when I was jumping had carrots in my pocket and always rewarded my horss. Can't understand why more people don't like to do that.

 

[Molly'sMama]

We haven't ridden the horses, I don't think we have a right to comment on what a certain horse needs/what is too much. My friend's pony as a young child looked like a sweetheart, was perfect on the lead rein but her mum put it on 2nd ring of a dutch gag when off. People commented, even instructerbut her mum knew what the pony was like, that it got excited at rallies and became too strong for a young child.


on another note; marcus ehning's riding is absolutely stunning; i don't even jump but i seethe with envy when i watch him.

 

[Shantara]

The kids at our yard are all hoping for five point breastplates, when I asked why the answer I got was because they look nice!!!

I got a 5 point breastplate rather than a normal one because they look nice and I got a fabulous offer! £25!

 

[showpony]

I think it just depends on the horse!! After break issues with my mare when riding out of yard we tried a Kimblewick, worst decision ever. She reacted horribly to it. She is now in a hanging cheek snaffle with a copper lozange and she is a changed horse.
Minis pony has to be in a 3 ring when going xc... But loose ring snaffle for normal lessons..