AmyMay
Situation normal
In that case - chuck them out, with the exception of the mare and foal (which you need to play it by ear with) and the one that's in full work.
Inform your owners that is what you'll be doing, with a weeks notice.
No one wants 24/7 turnout!
- Thread starter Wagtail
- Start date
In that case - chuck them out, with the exception of the mare and foal (which you need to play it by ear with) and the one that's in full work.
Inform your owners that is what you'll be doing, with a weeks notice.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I had planned on writing to them all to reiterate that the charges reflect summer 24/7 turnout and that if they wanted their horse bringing in when the others were out, that it must have a companion, and that a charge would apply. To be fair, I didn't have a problem last year. Maybe because it was so much drier and there was hardly any grass so I was feeding haylage in the fields. This year we have loads of grass but I have tailor made the paddocks to reflect the nutritional needs of each horse. With those wanting restricted grazing sharing the smaller paddocks and those wanting lots of grazing, having larger, more grassy paddocks. I would always bring in if very heavy rain and wind, or thunder was forecast or it was exceptionally cold. I don't want them all hooning about and getting injured.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
And there is the crux of the matter. You have a yard of pets/leisure horses (an observation not a critiscism).
I am very pro-turnout believe it or not. I won't stable on a yard where my horse cannot go out every day for a minimum of at least half a day in winter and switched overnight in the summer.
But when you are trying to keep a horse fit, trim, not bloated, control their intake and make sure they get chance to rest so they are fresh to ride/compete - having them part stabled helps hugely. I don't want my horse with a bleached coat and fly bites through the summer and half asleep when his butt is supposed to be in gear. And when I pay £115 a week for this I do not expect him to be obliged to spend 3 months in a field.
Wagtail
Horse servant
I think that as soon as we are over this next front of colder wet weather (if we ever are
) I will do just that.
Flame_
Well-Known Member
Unless your full livery charges are particularly reasonable all year round, I can't see many people being happy to pay full livery costs for what is effectively grass livery and reserving a stable. Sorry, I don't think that's the liveries being greedy, I think that's a YO taking the p.
benson21
Well-Known Member
Donovan at the moment is out from 7am til 5pm, then in at night. I dont want him on 24/7. He is not a competition horse, to be honest he is a pet, and I maybe wrong but I cant see me having much of a relationship with him if he is always out in the field.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Do you not understand that if livery fees go down in summer then they have to go up in winter?
Have you ever run a business?
ETA if you call making a £3k loss the past two years is taking the piss then yes, I am.
Wagtail
Horse servant
For nine months of the year my liveries are in at night. During the summer, their owners bring them in from the field to groom, and fuss and occasionally ride. (They are all big pets
). Sometimes my liveries go and just sit in the field, watching their horses...be horses. It's lovely.shadowboy
Well-Known Member
Out yard started summer turnout in the 21st April. Only 2 are out 24/7 the rest are still in at night. The yard has 26 horses. It's all DIY too. Mine is a fatty so I like him in for part of the day. Some are comp horses and no one is stressy so no one has bothered yet, and too be honest weather is so changeable at the moment it feels as cold as winter was!
AmyMay
Situation normal
I think it's quite probably that you don't understand what Full Livery means.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Has it always been a barn rule that horses go out 24/7 during the summer months? If so, explain this to your liveries (and they should already know, presumably). If not, or if liveries have usually had an option, then this might not go over well. Have you asked them why they don't want their horses out?
Some horses, like mine, really don't take to it.
Some horses, like mine, really don't take to it.
AshTay
Well-Known Member
This doesn't make any sense to me! My horses are out 24/7 (usually). They come in everyday to be fed and worked and fussed with and then I take them back out again and watch them toddle off to their friends in the field. I watch them for a few minutes and then leave. But you're saying that i'd have a better relationship with them if I just walked off and left them in their stable when I left instead of putting them back out?
Granted I don't go up in the mornings because I don't need to (they don't need putting out as already out and someone checks them) but if they were in, I'd either have to pay for part livery to get them put out for me, or I'd do it myself but in a rush because of having to get to work so that wouldn't improve our relationship either.
Wagtail
Horse servant
To be fair, I think that the main reason is because it is still quite cold at the moment. Last year they were all out 24/7 by now. I only make it compulsory once the weather really is pleasant. The main reason for posting this thread was the impression I had from this forum that virtually everyone wanted as much turnout as possible. You only have to look at threads entitled 'Which yard?' and the OP gets inundated with replies saying they would not entertain a yard which has limited turnout. I thought it was odd therefore that my experience was not that at all, and that my liveries were all too happy to have their horses wrapped up warm in their stables, even when the fields were nice, and free of mud, and the offer was there to have their horses out as much as they liked. And from the views aired on this thread, it seems that they are not alone.
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SillySausage
Well-Known Member
I haven't read all of the replies, but I have a slightly different view on it as far as I have read.
In past years my horse has been out 24/7 as soon as the weather comes right. However, this year we have lost horses 2 and 3 to atypical myopathy (similar to grass sickness but affects muscles rather than internal organs, only an average 20% survival rate). They still don't know what causes it but the only advice they give is to remove horses from the affected paddocks (done) and to keep horses in for a period of time during every 24 hours to supplement their diets with hay/haylege and a concentrated feed during the spring/autumn months.
Having known of 3 horse deaths (2 different counties, 3 different villages and so 3 different fields) I personally don't feel happy taking the risk.
In past years my horse has been out 24/7 as soon as the weather comes right. However, this year we have lost horses 2 and 3 to atypical myopathy (similar to grass sickness but affects muscles rather than internal organs, only an average 20% survival rate). They still don't know what causes it but the only advice they give is to remove horses from the affected paddocks (done) and to keep horses in for a period of time during every 24 hours to supplement their diets with hay/haylege and a concentrated feed during the spring/autumn months.
Having known of 3 horse deaths (2 different counties, 3 different villages and so 3 different fields) I personally don't feel happy taking the risk.
AmyMay
Situation normal
I always think it's such a shame when horses don't get the opportunity of going out 24/7 for at least a few weeks.
It gives them so much pleasure, a great mental break from the routine of stabling and really enables them to just be a horse. It's also a much healthier environment for them to be in.
I've never found it interfered with my relationship with a horse when they're out 24/7. And there is no more joyfull sight than my horse flat out in the field first thing in the morning. It's so peaceful.
Wagtail
Horse servant
What an awful experience for you. No wonder you are cautious. When our horses go out 24/7 they still have a hard feed and also come in for some haylage most days (when their owners are here). Last summer I had to feed haylage all the way through as the grass was so poor. So grazing probably only accounted for a quarter of their intake.
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
The weather may be a factor. The horses at my yard are still in their winter fields and last year, they were in summer fields two weeks ago, the beginning of May, and the 24/7 contingent were out. No skinny horses this year, so at least no rush to get anyone on the summer grazing (I had the skinny horse last year -- I'm so pleased she did not lose weight this winter!). The YO also hasn't yet opened the cross-country field for riding. It's just so wet! The plan was to move everyone to their summer fields on Monday and put the 24/7 guys out, but the weather was so bogging that it didn't happen.
There's a wee DIY yard just up the road from us that I drive past on my way to the barn. Their horses are in nearly 24/7 during the winter and out 24/7 during the summer. On Thursday and Friday of last week, I saw the horses out in their summer fields. When I drove to my barn on Monday, I noticed that the fields were empty and the horses were back inside!
There's a wee DIY yard just up the road from us that I drive past on my way to the barn. Their horses are in nearly 24/7 during the winter and out 24/7 during the summer. On Thursday and Friday of last week, I saw the horses out in their summer fields. When I drove to my barn on Monday, I noticed that the fields were empty and the horses were back inside!
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Flame_
Well-Known Member
Eh?
Well if you mean that you think its quite probable that I don't understand what full livery means I'd have to say I think you are wrong. There are variations on exactly what you get included in you payments for full livery but IME the very least you get is...
Morning: Feed, rug change, either hay, water and exercise or turnout, muck out and extra bedding.
Evening: Bring in or skip out, rug change, hay, water and evening feed.
Grass livery is grass livery. Even full care grass livery with feeds, checks and, when necessary, haylage round here is about £35 a week. Full livery is around £100. Who is going to pay an extra £65 a week just to hold a stable they don't use for months?
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AmyMay
Situation normal
The thing about Full Livery is though, Flame, it's not just about the 'manual labour' that goes with the horse - it's about the day to day responsibility of looking after that horse, and it's individual needs - whether turned out 24/7 or stabled.
As an owner, I am paying for peace of mind, and the knowledge that my horse is in safe, capable hands and will be looked after to the highest standard in my absence. And in the most appropriate manner.
I've never known a yard offering full livery to drop its prices during the summer when the horses are turned out.
As an owner, I am paying for peace of mind, and the knowledge that my horse is in safe, capable hands and will be looked after to the highest standard in my absence. And in the most appropriate manner.
I've never known a yard offering full livery to drop its prices during the summer when the horses are turned out.
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Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
The other thing to consider though flame, is that many full livery yards, including Wagtails, average the yearly costs, factoring in for 24/7 turnout in the summer months. So its incorrect to imagine the summer charges are just yo's charging winter rates for grass livery & making a massive profit.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I've never known, and wouldn't expect, a full livery yard to reduce prices in summer.
However I do expect a choice / say in the routine my horse is in.
For me personally, random changes in routine depending on the weather and being told my horse 'must' stay out 24/7 is not what I would deem an acceptable full livery service.
Horse are different. Owners are different. Their reasons may vary and others may not agree with their views but as long as a horses basic needs are catered for then it is not for individuals to judge.
To be fair to OP, as long as the liveries know they have an enforced 3 month 24/7 turnout before arriving at the yard then as YO she is entitled to do that. The liveries either decide to accept that or don't go to the yard (I'd be in the latter)!
I personally think Wagtails liveries are crazy to pay full livery prices on horses ridden once a week and who would be better off turned out. But then it is none of my business what they do, and I'm a cheapskate, because my pet is on grass 24/7/365.
However I do expect a choice / say in the routine my horse is in.
For me personally, random changes in routine depending on the weather and being told my horse 'must' stay out 24/7 is not what I would deem an acceptable full livery service.
Horse are different. Owners are different. Their reasons may vary and others may not agree with their views but as long as a horses basic needs are catered for then it is not for individuals to judge.
To be fair to OP, as long as the liveries know they have an enforced 3 month 24/7 turnout before arriving at the yard then as YO she is entitled to do that. The liveries either decide to accept that or don't go to the yard (I'd be in the latter)!
I personally think Wagtails liveries are crazy to pay full livery prices on horses ridden once a week and who would be better off turned out. But then it is none of my business what they do, and I'm a cheapskate, because my pet is on grass 24/7/365.
sallyballybee
Well-Known Member
i love 24/7 turnout if i could have it all year round i would 
sallyballybee
Well-Known Member
regarding cost our yard is
£40 per week in the winter (horses in at night out through the day, use of school, shavings, hay/hayledge)
£15 in the summer (24hr turnout, stable when you want to use it, i bring poppy in sometime throught the day, use of the school, hay)
£40 per week in the winter (horses in at night out through the day, use of school, shavings, hay/hayledge)
£15 in the summer (24hr turnout, stable when you want to use it, i bring poppy in sometime throught the day, use of the school, hay)
Jango
Well-Known Member
We're getting the option of 24/7 turnout tonight, but unfortunately my gelding will be coming in 7.30am - 5pm everyday as the grass is just too good at the moment! Up until today he has been out 7.30am til 5pm.
He is a Welsh D and has already 'inflated' since going onto the summer fields and he is ridden 6 days per week hacking, schooling, low level competing so I can't physically up his work. I would be risking his health just leaving him out. Hopefully later on in the year when the grass has been eaten down he will be able to go out 24/7 and I won't have to muck out for a while!
So people might have different reasons for not wanting 24/7 turnout.
He is a Welsh D and has already 'inflated' since going onto the summer fields and he is ridden 6 days per week hacking, schooling, low level competing so I can't physically up his work. I would be risking his health just leaving him out. Hopefully later on in the year when the grass has been eaten down he will be able to go out 24/7 and I won't have to muck out for a while!
So people might have different reasons for not wanting 24/7 turnout.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Blimey! I guess they must make all their own hay and straw? Even so, they must be skimping on something as £40 a week is simply not profitable. I posted my actual costs per horse EXCLUDING bedding and feed etc and it is £27 per week! This includes maintenance of fencing, grass, arena, stables, muck removal etc, rates, electricity and water.
Hedwards
Well-Known Member
24/7 turn out isnt an option at my yard - even if it was i wouldnt take it... we're on possibly the best dairy grazing you could ever ask for - just looking at it my mare starts putting weight on!
However - I do in the summer opt for night-time turn out!
(Cost for my livery is £28.50 per week, stable, grazing, haylage & use of facilities - they also have shavings for £7 a bale)
However - I do in the summer opt for night-time turn out!
(Cost for my livery is £28.50 per week, stable, grazing, haylage & use of facilities - they also have shavings for £7 a bale)
Wagtail
Horse servant
That is very understandable. I have made some extra small paddocks for the fatties this year. They are very long and thin and run alongside the big paddocks to promote lots of walking, and they have had their grass eaten down first by a couple of the skinnies, much to their disgust.
monte1
Well-Known Member
we are very fortunate our yard is the same, we get the choice of how we manage our horses and almost everyone is out all the time, the horses all seem very chilled, but, we do have plenty of space and grazing, I think that is a big factor.
Both my guys are happy out 24/7 and are both competing low level eventing, must admit though, when we move up to the summer grazing (which we only just did last week!) I strip graze and mine both have thier grass muzzles on during the night to manage their weight - it works just fine. they both quite enjoying coming in to the stable for a snooze though especially when it is hot out !!
sallyballybee
Well-Known Member
our yard is one of the more expensive round here aswell, the hay is from the same estate tho. its not like we have massive schools or anything, just a really nice wee yard
Dizzle
Well-Known Member
Our yard is a mixture of grass and DIY, there's usually only one of two horses out of about 20 in overnight, mine lives out and I wouldn't have it any other way, my old yard offered full and part livery and they didn't do 24/7 as the YO would loose money because she couldn't charge for full if they were out all the time.
Even if my horse was on full I'd want him out 24/7 he loves it! (He's now on grass livery)
Even if my horse was on full I'd want him out 24/7 he loves it! (He's now on grass livery)