No point to lessons, cheaper to buy a horse!

I agree with Cazee and minkymoo - sure you shouldn't automatically expect help to be always available on tap - but neither is the opposite extreme acceptable either. Where old hands will stand by watching you struggle and then bitch about you behind your back. Everyone is a beginner at some stage afterall!
 
I am not saying that it is acceptable to go out and buy a nice horsey because it would be nice. A certain degree of common sense should prevail when buying any animal and I am not saying that other people should do someone elses horse if they cannot cope. Therein lies your responsibility.

What I am saying is it doesn't take much to help someone out, be it a bit of feeding/excersise/grooming/whatever advice. I ask people for a bit of advice every so often and I am not ashamed to either. I don't like that it comes across to 'outsiders' that first timers 'aren't welcome here'.
 
Well said Minkymoo and Welshwitch spot on!
Izt I can partly see where you are coming from in relation to the response to the quote you took from my earlier post.
However with regard to learning the basics.
Yes there are courses which do offer stable and horse management, some run by riding schools.
A few years ago I would have considered one of those courses but I fell out with the woman that owned the riding school and have not been back since. I was also prepared to muck in and help out at the yard but at the time my university degree, lack of transport, writing for a local newspaper as well as looking after a then 6 year old, meant that I did not have the time in the end to do it.
The only way a person can learn those skills is if they currently work within the equine industry, have horsey friends or relatives or help out at a riding school or livery yard etc.
Now whilst most riding schools would willingly accept the FREE help from children or teenagers wishing to help out they may not be quite so forthcoming to adults. Usually because adults would expect a bit more for their sweat and tears than say a 12 year old child who is after a freebie lesson once a week.
Not only that but how many people could actually afford to take time out to help on a yard unless it was exclusively arranged for weekends only.
Early mornings to feed and muck out. Yeah I'm sure the boss would like it if you arrived in work late one morning or didn't have time to change or were not performing as you should due to tiredness.
Before anyone argues and says well that's what you can get with owning a horse and all the responsibilities that goes with it, maybe so but try explaining to your boss that you were just helping out to learn and I wonder how many bosses would be quite so accommodating in their response to you.
Both as a child and an adult I found an elistist and snobby attitude when asking questions about horse care at riding establishments and I have been to quite a few.
The most nicest people I have ever met and rode with was the Naprous family famed for horses in film/tv as well as their display the devil's horsemen.
They had horses worth [****] loads of money and far more valuable than perhaps anyone on this forum and yet their down to earth approach was lovely.
They were well and truly horse people and loved them and were not snobs at all.
If only everyone had their attitude it would make the horse world a much nicer place to be in.

So in theory yes it is possible to gain those skills beforehand but is not necessarily always easy to unless you happen to be in the right place at the right time.

Luckily for me I have knowledgeabe people around me so can always ask for help when I need it ( including this forum) and suffice to say I will always be happy to lend a hand of support should anyone ever need it.
Caroline
 
So I assume everyone who's been riding since they were three years or so had it down pat right from the beginning, did they? Or perhaps their parents had always had horses too? And I'm sure you have nothing left to learn about looking after or riding horses? At least she has been getting lessons for the past year- worse would be to just go out and buy a horse having never had any experience of them.
Yes, common sense and knowing when to ask for help is a big part of owning ANY animal and their welfare has to come first but the one true way to kill of any expansion in equestrianism is to make it elitist and a priviledge for those who were born into equestrian families or who have had teh luxury of constant access to horses their whole life. Give the girl a chance and perhaps tactfully offer to help rather than mouth off behind her back.
Being a good rider doesn't make you perfect when it comes to looking after a horse. Perhaps she has a wealth of experience in caring for other types of animals?
 
This does somewhat prove how bitchy it can be in a horsey environment doesn't it!! I started riding when I was 3 and my parents never let me have a pony as they thought I would 'never get up at 6 to feed it' Now I get up at 5.30 to muck out, feed and get to work for 8.30, so they are fairly impressed that I have become so dedicated and am doing so well with him.

I am with Charlyan, Welshwitch and Cazee34 (as you all may have noticed), rather than bitch about the poor girl, can you not offer to maybe go out for a hack with her every so often so maybe she will feel that she could come to you for advice should she need to? I discovered a girl at work has a horse at the yard down the road and I think the nicest way to plug her for info is to ask if she wants to go for a hack. What better way to pick up tips and or offer advice than then?
 
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This does somewhat prove how bitchy it can be in a horsey environment doesn't it!!

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How so??????
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I understand what you're saying, but why is it not fair to not offer someone help? I don't recall ever reading anything that says all horse owners are obligated to help someone else?

If someone buys a horse and needs help to look after it day to day then I feel quite strongly that they should put it on part livery. Why should they be able to pay DIY prices and then expect everyone else to help them deal with their horse out of the goodness of their hearts repeatedly?

I don't mind doing something for someone once, then supervise them doing it the next time...but I would expect them to be able to do that thing alone from there on in.

I have a new livery who has not owned horses before and has limited riding experience. I've made myself available either in person when I'm on the yard or at the end of the phone should she require assistance. Should that assistance be free or should I be charging when they struggle to lead him in and phone me up to go out to them? They came here on a strictly DIY only contract. Currently it seems to be something I'm just doing as I am keen to be helpful. I was a beginner not so long ago so I know what it's like. Mind I did seethe when I'd just showered and changed after getting soaked and then had to go back out to fetch their horse in after he'd broken free whilst leading and they were /wary about trying to lead him again. I did it though as I don't like to see people struggle. Poor horse got a shock when I approached him with my towel still wrapped around my head.
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There has to be a line drawn somewhere surely?
 
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I understand what you're saying, but why is it not fair to not offer someone help? I don't recall ever reading anything that says all horse owners are obligated to help someone else?

If someone buys a horse and needs help to look after it day to day then I feel quite strongly that they should put it on part livery. Why should they be able to pay DIY prices and then expect everyone else to help them deal with their horse out of the goodness of their hearts repeatedly?

I don't mind doing something for someone once, then supervise them doing it the next time...but I would expect them to be able to do that thing alone from there on in.


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My point exactly Patches.
 
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So I assume everyone who's been riding since they were three years or so had it down pat right from the beginning, did they? Or perhaps their parents had always had horses too? And I'm sure you have nothing left to learn about looking after or riding horses? At least she has been getting lessons for the past year- worse would be to just go out and buy a horse having never had any experience of them.
Yes, common sense and knowing when to ask for help is a big part of owning ANY animal and their welfare has to come first but the one true way to kill of any expansion in equestrianism is to make it elitist and a priviledge for those who were born into equestrian families or who have had teh luxury of constant access to horses their whole life. Give the girl a chance and perhaps tactfully offer to help rather than mouth off behind her back.
Being a good rider doesn't make you perfect when it comes to looking after a horse. Perhaps she has a wealth of experience in caring for other types of animals?

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Was that directed at me in general or just a QR?

I have not had horse handed to me via a silver spoon. I haven't been riding since I was 3 either. Infact, I've only been riding for 3 1/2 years. Of course I don't know everything and I have never implied that I do. Be that a reference to my riding or my management it's the same, I have alot to learn and I accept that.

I live on a dairy farm and after a couple of months of lessons my well meaning husband bought me a horse. I'd never owned one, tacked one up or even picked a horse's feet out.

I was right royally dropped in the deep end.

However, things worked out well for me. I did seek advice, be it on the internet, through books of via my instructor who came twice a week to teach me initially. I didn't pester everyone and anyone. Besides there was no one around to pester as I kept him at home on the farm.

I'm not saying don't ask for help......but there's a difference in asking for it and assuming you have a God given right to assistance. People in livery may genuinely not have the time to help you out and should they be moaned about if they decline your request for advice? If you need help, they go to the type of yard that is willing to help you. Make sure they know about your lack of experience before you arrive with your horse. YO's can end up taking on more than they bargained for when beginners come onto their land, especially if they've been given the impression that they are experienced.
 
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I am with Charlyan, Welshwitch and Cazee34 (as you all may have noticed), rather than bitch about the poor girl, can you not offer to maybe go out for a hack with her every so often so maybe she will feel that she could come to you for advice should she need to?

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I did that and my horse got her hind feet stood on because the person I rode with has such limited riding experience and allowed her horse to walk into mine repeatedly. One of those times, he caught her foot.

An easy mistake as she's a beginner when it comes to riding, I hold no malice towards her over it. No real harm was done, just a cosmetic cut to Patches foot. However, it could have been nasty. My horse could've kicked hers and then what would've happened to me, would I have been sued? (actually I don't think she would've sued me as she's a really nice girl, but I'm just using it as an example)? Equally her horse could've sliced through my horse's tendon when he trod on her.

It's not just about the willingness to help, there are often fears and what if's to consider. I will hack out with my livery again once she's had a few rides in the field and got her brakes sorted. That way we're both going to be much safer and will enjoy our rides and natters to each other without worrying about whether she can handle the situations she may find herself in.

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Again I understand what you're saying but isn't that what assisted livery is for? Put the horse on assisted livery for a couple of weeks and you can then shadow your YO/YM or their grooms about and get an understanding for what you need to do. It would be invaluable and a couple of weeks would really get the horse and it's owner off to a grand start.

If you have organised that assistance there is no need to feel sheepish about asking for it as it will be offered readily and then no one is loitering around waiting for someone to come to the yard who's willing/able to assist them in the day to day chores of caring for their horse.
 
Sorry- was just a quick reply, I never seek to criticise anyone. My comments are more geared towards an attitude that comes through on some posts, and those of us not long back into riding can feel a little bit ostracised. By offering to help- I don't mean doing everything for her- the horse is her responsibility at the end of the day but being approachable should she need a bit of advice will help her and ultimately the horse- this would apply to anyone in this situation. On the other hand I wouldn't jump in uninvited. I have the opposite problem of having a talented wee boy and someone determined to have their share of him when he's nothing to do with them.
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Perhaps these people who are beginners when it comes to actual horsekeeping should be helped. Given encouragement. Ask them if they want help? Cannot control a horse or are scared of it? Lacking in grooming skills, mucking out or anything remotely connected with horse care.
These people should be helped out by people like ourselves who do have a bit more experience instead of being bitched about behind their backs!
Caroline
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I agree with most of what you've said in your post but I do feel that at the very least, you should be able to control a horse before you buy one- purely on safety grounds. Horses do throw hissy fits from time to time (spook, etc) when they can be a bit more of a handful but don't buy a horse if you can't handle it in every day situations. It comes down to picking the right horse for you and not over-horsing yourself, I guess.
 
I help when I can, if someone asks and I don't immediately go and gossip that "so and so doesn't know this".

Everyone has to learn and some things you can't at a riding school. I say, if she has the support then good luck to her.
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I think that the basic point that I am trying to put across - not very well admittedly, is that there is no harm in helping someone. This is quite different to doing someone elses horse for them. You should know the basics before buying a horse, however, you should also be able to ask someone for advice if you are unsure of something. If you don't feel that someone is competent on a horse then don't hack out with them, but maybe suggest that they get lessons or something.

" I don't recall ever reading anything that says all horse owners are obligated to help someone else?" Of course this isn't the case, no-one is obligated to do anything for anyone else, this doesn't mean that you can't does it? I just think that it is sad that there is such reluctance to help someone, and what happens if you need help? Does this mean that no-one should help you?

The person that I loan my horse off is off for 2 weeks having had an operation so I am doing both horses and lots of people have offered to help me and I am sure that this is because we have offered to help them when they need it. I like to think of it as Karma myself!
 
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