No turnout horse very unhappy

[Goldenstar]

But there is no turnout ,
At some point OPs horse may have to be stabled 24/7 if he's injured he might as well learn now .

 

[MotherOfChickens]

the problem with lunging is that not many people do it well-so you end up with damage. I'm not sure why people can't lunge using the whole of the arena with lots of changes of rein, circles in between etc. Instead you get 20 people lunging on the same 15m circle at high speed.
YOs are going to have to start thinking about having all weather turnout areas for winter though-for their own sanity! I do understand not having the fields trashed as I have my own but horses do need to get out and buck/stretch. Owners need to step up to the plate as well, its not icy -get your horses out, spend more time, make the effort. I have one older pony and one unbroken which I am hand walking-if I could ride them I would be! Sometimes the only place I can turn them out is my drive (which is long and has verges but still). And yes, I work and have a 90min commute-winter is just harder work.

and all horses should learn how to be in-in case they ever need box rest.

 

[Shysmum]

I think if I was a YO i would go with Trash Field idea. Horses graze for up to 18 hours a day, and travel 30 plus miles a day in the wild - that is how they are built and designed.

 

[nikkimariet]

for you so to come across as if free schooling is a stupid, idiotic idea is a bit harsh.

I don't think I've said, or have insinuated anything of the sort.

Actually, I don't think free schooling is a stupid or idiotic idea. Horses for courses. Some like it, some don't. Some go ape, some don't. Personally (with my horses in mind and also my facilities), I don't think that regular free schooling (or lunging for that matter) holds any benefit in terms of joints/stress and more topically, the maintenance of what is essentially a very expensive sand pit.

There is a huge difference between 1 or 2 or even 3 horses having a hoolie round on (in this example) a well maintained surface once or twice a year, and an entire yard wanting to let their horses into the school for a play and (in this instance of prolonged horrid weather and no turnout) regularly. And due to aforementioned weather, surface is likely to be boggy (or in a delicate state in any case) potentially promoting less opportunity for stress busting/exercise and more opportunity for injury/surface trashing.

 

[putasocinit]

We have over 20 2 and 3 yo tbs roughed off for winter, turned out in 4 acre fields with no rugs, get fed haylage in field on the ground, the gate ways are awful the field is wet but they can survive, and we will still use those same fields this summer.

Folk are just getting cheesed off and you cant blame them. Some yo are happy for their horses not to be turned out, it suits them easier to keep clean, but others need to go out, and no this is not germany and other such places that dont turn out, this the uk where horses are turned out. Liverya prices include stable and grazing, i havent met a livery yet who have been refunded for non use of grazing to cover the extra hay they are needing and bedding. Yos need to work with their liveries and not be one sided, we need each other

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I'm not sure it's simply a case of 'still managing to turn out... Hmmm...' More a case of you're happy to (whatever your conditions might be).

Whilst I'd not be happy with being told I couldn't turnout - given the current weather conditions there are any number of reasons why that might be the case.

I'm not sure there's any reason for smugness under the circumstances.

If I was smug I'd be telling you I've got hundreds of acres for my horse to roam, rain has been minimal and I'm alright Jack. As it is the rain hasn't stopped for weeks, my winter paddock is trashed but I am still managing to turnout. Not for my sake, not for the paddocks sake but for my horses sake.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

By not allowing t/o the YO may also lose financially if forage is included - more stabling, more forage required.....

I am so glad I don't do livery anymore as would be tearing my hair out....



And for those that say y/o's are greedy, you try runnning a yard and keeping every livery happy - from experience it just isn't possible!

You're right. If all year turnout was stated in the contract but come winter my horse was kept like a bunny rabbit, then no, I wouldn't be happy & would look elsewhere for livery.

 

[Hippona]

If I was smug I'd be telling you I've got hundreds of acres for my horse to roam, rain has been minimal and I'm alright Jack. As it is the rain hasn't stopped for weeks, my winter paddock is trashed but I am still managing to turnout. Not for my sake, not for the paddocks sake but for my horses sake.

Ditto.
Mine are out for 12 hours a day....In the trash paddock with hay. It's only about the size of a manege but it's better than being in.
I've only got 2 acres in total and the rest has been rested since December and its in really good nick.

 

[MagicMelon]

No they don't, owners want/need daily turnout. It is unexceptable to expect to be able to have turnout in these conditions. It is only for a few weeks until all these storms stop. Horses will come to no harm and if you ride them and give them some work, they don't need turn out.

I totally disagree with you. Turnout is a horses basic need. They are designed to move about and roam, being kept in a very small box permanently is proven to be bad for them physically as well as mentally. I dont think many people would find it acceptable to do this to a dog or a cat, so I find it very worrying that so many people think its ok with a horse... bizarre.

There is no "smugness" in those of us who give our horses turnout. This is what most of us have strived for and ensured happened. I guess its simply that some people have different priorities.

OP's horse is clearly showing how unhappy he is, and some of you seem to have the attitude of "suck it up" and that its "good" for him to get used to it in case he ever has to be in through injury (which may never happen...). Weird!

 

[RunToEarth]

I totally disagree with you. Turnout is a horses basic need. They are designed to move about and roam, being kept in a very small box permanently is proven to be bad for them physically as well as mentally. I dont think many people would find it acceptable to do this to a dog or a cat, so I find it very worrying that so many people think its ok with a horse... bizarre.

There is no "smugness" in those of us who give our horses turnout. This is what most of us have strived for and ensured happened. I guess its simply that some people have different priorities.

OP's horse is clearly showing how unhappy he is, and some of you seem to have the attitude of "suck it up" and that its "good" for him to get used to it in case he ever has to be in through injury (which may never happen...). Weird!

In that case the only way to guarantee you are delivering what your horse needs is to own/rent your own land. I sometimes wonder whether liveries actually understand what land management entails.

Me? I'm just tanking my lucky stars I am not this poor poor chap.
http://www.itv.com/news/west/update/2014-02-12/we-join-farmer-on-his-return-home/

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I totally disagree with you. Turnout is a horses basic need. They are designed to move about and roam, being kept in a very small box permanently is proven to be bad for them physically as well as mentally. I dont think many people would find it acceptable to do this to a dog or a cat, so I find it very worrying that so many people think its ok with a horse... bizarre.

There is no "smugness" in those of us who give our horses turnout. This is what most of us have strived for and ensured happened. I guess its simply that some people have different priorities.

OP's horse is clearly showing how unhappy he is, and some of you seem to have the attitude of "suck it up" and that its "good" for him to get used to it in case he ever has to be in through injury (which may never happen...). Weird!

not really, but it does seem that this conversation can't be had without either side getting judgmental or snippy

I think that its good that all horses get used to different routines and can be left in, or on their own, or go to a clinic etc without getting stressed out of their heads. working horses used to be kept in, it can be done well, especially short term but its harder work and costs more.

I wish I had 15 acres of pasture but I don't. Is that not ideal? well, most of us should give up now then. Mine are getting as much turnout as I can give them (between 6-9 hours per day, they've only been kept in for one day all winter and I'm in SW Scotland)-they are also getting walked out as I appreciate my set up is not ideal (atm, but we only moved in this winter). If I had a ridden horse I would be riding it. Working horses used to be kept in-its a case of working them harder than most leisure riders currently do/can. Noone is talking about doing it permanently.

I also think that too many pay buttons for livery but expect the earth, but then I don't do livery anymore so it hardly matters. But I do appreciate the £2.5K I've just spent on internal stables, the £5K I am about to spend on all weather turnout and the £2K I will spend getting the gateways fixed in my fields, plus the rolling and reseeding I will have to pay for. All this is costing me more than the £15-25pw so many people seem proud of spending at livery yards elsewhere.

 

[justabob]

In extreme circumstances it is necessary for them to be in, obviously not forever, just when we have this weather. When they are exercised every day I don't see a problem. I am sure with the right management they will not come to harm. Lovely livery mentality coming to the fore here, paid for it and want it attitude. How about looking to the future when you have nice fields to turn your horses out in the spring?

 

[L&M]

Well said....

 

[Flame_]

Lovely livery mentality coming to the fore here, paid for it and want it attitude.

Well, yeah, surely if you've paid for something you want it? Don't you?

I think this comes down to everybody compromising, including the YO. I'm ok with very restricted turnout in the worst weather, but none at all for more than a couple of days isn't acceptable.

 

[nikkimariet]

I'm ok with very restricted turnout in the worst weather, but none at all for more than a couple of days isn't acceptable.

I don't think the weather heard you!

 

[RunToEarth]

Well, yeah, surely if you've paid for something you want it? Don't you?

I think this comes down to everybody compromising, including the YO. I'm ok with very restricted turnout in the worst weather, but none at all for more than a couple of days isn't acceptable.

The point that justabob was making, I think, was that liveries are not understanding that YOs close fields as they understand the need to preserve them for the rest of the year. Regardless with what you pay for - trash it in this weather and it is not coming back well in the spring, regardless of how much your livery bill is.

No turnout for two days is acceptable to me, because I understand land management and I understand what I'm dealing with. Tell the weather to stop raining why don't you?

 

[JDH01]

I keep my horses in in the winter and always have. I have bought new horses in the winter which have previously been used to turn out and they have always settled. The key for me is proper work - I mean min an hour per day and feed apropriate to the work. Also longer work at least twice a week. I believe that if they have quality exercise, good forage with free access and appropriate hard feed they are high on the welfare option. I know all will not agree and apreciate their view but would not change my view.

 

[justabob]

Well, yeah, surely if you've paid for something you want it? Don't you?

I think this comes down to everybody compromising, including the YO. I'm ok with very restricted turnout in the worst weather, but none at all for more than a couple of days isn't acceptable.

Yes compromising is a good idea, one day at the moment is no different from the next. We are not getting drying out days. What baffles me though, are you all so incompetent that you can only handle your horses/smallponies when they are living out?

 

[stencilface]

Thing is, if most horses have something to do/eat they are quite happy out in the filth, like a pig in poo actually! I know many nights my horse is stood resolutely on top of the hill 100m away, ignoring us while hay gets put out and buckets get banged.

Fine if YO restrict/ban turnout in the worst weather, but judging by the number of posts on here of unhappy people and horses, it's only fair they provide a suitable alternative as a temporary measure. If the school can't take a few horses free schooling and having a roll for a couple of weeks, then do you want to school on it as a reliable surface day in day out?

Eta I think a couple of days, maybe up to a week is reasonable, but more and they either have to create a sacrifice paddock or figure out yard turnout, or use the school IMHO.

And yes it's ideal that some horses can adapt to box rest, I know mines done enough of it, but some people won't do that do their horses.

 

[siennamum]

In extreme circumstances it is necessary for them to be in, obviously not forever, just when we have this weather. When they are exercised every day I don't see a problem. I am sure with the right management they will not come to harm. Lovely livery mentality coming to the fore here, paid for it and want it attitude. How about looking to the future when you have nice fields to turn your horses out in the spring?

If I am honest this last statement is what I don't get. I hate Spring grass and the problems it brings. I understand that the field needs to recover but would never rest the field for Spring. I'd wait till the goodness was out of the grass. I'd really rather mine eat hay all year round tbh.

 

[samsbilly]

My boy has had limited turnout since October. Currently he is going out once or twice a week for a few hours. I am busting a gut to keep him happy. He is hand grazed or loose schooled in the morning then again in my lunch break and ridden at least once a day twice at the weekend. He is being mucked/skipped out three times a day. It can be done. A lot of liveries aren't getting why it's being restricted but this has been an exceptionally wet winter as runtoearth said if it's trashed now the summer turnout will continued to be restricted. We can all only do our best. Hopefully it's not for much longer x

 

[Flame_]

The point that justabob was making, I think, was that liveries are not understanding that YOs close fields as they understand the need to preserve them for the rest of the year. Regardless with what you pay for - trash it in this weather and it is not coming back well in the spring, regardless of how much your livery bill is.

No turnout for two days is acceptable to me, because I understand land management and I understand what I'm dealing with. Tell the weather to stop raining why don't you?

So the customers are morons who just don't understand land management… Wow.

Its Britain, its winter, its wet. Well not exactly a new thing really is it, apart from WHERE it's mainly hitting this time? We have this discussion every year and every year I'm more grateful that I've got a pragmatic YM and YO who are interested in balancing the needs of the horses, the satisfaction of customers and the safety of the owners and staff with the condition of the land and facilities.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Yes compromising is a good idea, one day at the moment is no different from the next. We are not getting drying out days. What baffles me though, are you all so incompetent that you can only handle your horses/smallponies when they are living out?

Yes However do pop down and hack Blue out - I will have her tacked up ready for you.......x

 

[babymare]

just a thought but i also believe some (and note i say some) yards over horse thier land? I fully understand that they need to make money( theyare at end of day running a business) but would always prefer to pay a bit more less horses and all year turnout.

 

[MagicMelon]

In reply to the odd comment that as long as the horse gets exercised then its acceptable to keep it in. Personally I struggle with that - when does the horse get to simply be a horse? When do they get to graze? Socialise? Roll? Taking a horse out of its box purely to work, to me makes it sound like a machine.

 

[justabob]

So the customers are morons who just don't understand land management… Wow.

Its Britain, its winter, its wet. Well not exactly a new thing really is it, apart from WHERE it's mainly hitting this time? We have this discussion every year and every year I'm more grateful that I've got a pragmatic YM and YO who are interested in balancing the needs of the horses, the satisfaction of customers and the safety of the owners and staff with the condition of the land and facilities.

Morons? If the cap fits Flame. The wettest winter in 200 years? Glad your YM/YO are so understanding. I would not personally want my horse out in this weather, but I understand that it is not your land and you will be living in the moment.

 

[justabob]

Yes However do pop down and hack Blue out - I will have her tacked up ready for you.......x

I shall bring the same glue that I am using on Red!!!! How is that damn dog getting on??

 

[RunToEarth]

So the customers are morons who just don't understand land management… Wow.

Its Britain, its winter, its wet. Well not exactly a new thing really is it, apart from WHERE it's mainly hitting this time? We have this discussion every year and every year I'm more grateful that I've got a pragmatic YM and YO who are interested in balancing the needs of the horses, the satisfaction of customers and the safety of the owners and staff with the condition of the land and facilities.

I'm not sure where I called liveries morons but whatever, HHO Friday club out in force.

Perhaps when viewing a yard and it's facilities, take into account the amount of liveries and the amount of grazing, then think of this crap weather and look at the grazing again.

I do think there are a lot of YOs out there don't have enough grazing for clients, but more fool liveries for signing up and paying bills. We have 12 acres grazing for 3 horses and I wouldn't want more this year, or last year.

 

[RunToEarth]

In reply to the odd comment that as long as the horse gets exercised then its acceptable to keep it in. Personally I struggle with that - when does the horse get to simply be a horse? When do they get to graze? Socialise? Roll? Taking a horse out of its box purely to work, to me makes it sound like a machine.

I believe these comments are in the context of the current situation of dire weather, not acceptable to keep a horse in 23 hours indefinitely.

 

[Flame_]

Morons? If the cap fits Flame. The wettest winter in 200 years? Glad your YM/YO are so understanding. I would not personally want my horse out in this weather, but I understand that it is not your land and you will be living in the moment.

Then you are very mistaken. It would be foolish to know you're at a good place and not to do what you can to take care of the facilities that you will want to keep using. I do not live in the moment at all, and neither as far as I am aware do most other liveries.