No turnout

[Elopi]

What are everyone’s thoughts on loaning a horse which doesn’t get winter turnout?

I’ve finally found the perfect pony to loan who’s good in all ways and suits my abilities. The only downside is that he doesn’t get turn out in winter AT ALL. He has the most laid back personality and isn’t spooky or sharp however the fact that he doesn’t get any turnout bothers me.
I asked the owner why he doesn’t get turnout in winter and the explanation was that he’s 17, he doesn’t need turnout in the winter and blatantly there are no options for turn out as the fields are too boggy and we are not allowed to turn out in the school.
As some of you may know if you’ve seen my previous posts on my other loan which didn’t work out, he was quite quirky and I came off him many times. This always plays in the back of my mind when I ride my new loan and although I know he’s safe as houses I still haven’t cantered him and I’m not sure if it’s just a matter of time before he explodes from lack of turn out.
He gets exercised by me 3 times a week and the other days I suppose he gets ridden by his owner but I’m sure it’s not everyday. He’s constantly stuck in his stable and I’m beginning to worry that it’s not good for him as horses need time to be horses and have a roll , a run around etc.
A bit more background he cannot be lunged due to stifle problems so I free school him and ride him in the paddock, haven’t had a chance to hack out yet as I don’t know the routes and the owner hasn’t had time to hack out with me yet. He gets unlimited hay and a handful of chaff and garlic everyday.
I would just like some opinions whether I should carry on with this loan or not or if it’s normal to not have turnout in winter? Thanks in advance

 

[Starzaan]

If my horses couldn’t be turned out, I would no longer have horses.
It’s an absolute no from me.

 

[cold_feet]

Well it’s sadly normal for some, but certainly not ideal. As a loaner you don’t have any say on his management, but I wouldn’t ride a stabled horse that wasn’t exercised every day.

 

[Arzada]

What are everyone’s thoughts on loaning a horse which doesn’t get winter turnout?

I wouldn't. I wouldn't be party to this way of keeping a horse.

 

[Cortez]

What does the horse say about it? Sounds like he's happy, healthy, etc. Why are you stressing over something that appears to be fine by the horse? If you feel he needs more exercise, exercise him more.

 

[View]

In an ideal world, every horse would be able to have a say on how he/she is kept.

Over the last 40 years, I have encountered horses who made it very plain that they preferred a dry stable to being turned out in either rain or mud. it was drummed into me many years ago that you work with the horse in front of you, not the horse you wish you have.

As has been said, as you are not the owner you have very limited say in his management. If the horse is happy, and you are content that he is happy, crack on.

 

[TwyfordM]

Mine doesn’t have a huge amount of turnout and is very settled and happy in her stable. But she’s on the bare minimum of what I would consider acceptable and it’s for health reasons.
I get her in the school any chance I get, for a mooch around, a roll and maybe a bit of free schooling. She’s turned out a couple of times a week. But even after a couple of days in a row stuck in, you can feel she’s wound up and not as relaxed even if she’s behaving.
She doesn’t need hours out, half an hour and she’s chilled again. She’s lunged and walked out in hand but not ridden.

Any other horse I’ve kept I haven’t had lami/cushings issues to contend with so I’ve only done the above when necessary for their health. Not sure I’d be comfortable if it’s purely a “yard doesn’t offer winter turnouts” situation

 

[Elopi]

What does the horse say about it? Sounds like he's happy, healthy, etc. Why are you stressing over something that appears to be fine by the horse? If you feel he needs more exercise, exercise him more.

I get that but upon doing a little bit of research online and looking at similar threads the majority of people think it’s not acceptable to keep a horse stabled constantly with no turnout as they need time to stretch their legs and behave like a horse. I’m just worried that one day he will have a lot of pent up energy and do something silly while I’m riding.

 

[SEL]

I'd give it a go - you're doing the pony a favour by exercising him

 

[AmyMay]

Providing you can give him adequate daily exercise, give it a go.

 

[PoniesRock]

Our turnout gets very wet, as in standing water on it. This winter we have been lucky and they have been turned out till just before Christmas. But in all honesty mine haven’t wanted to go out since about November, I’ve been dragging them to the field in the mornings telling them it’s good for them, and even then they are very keen to come in and be worked at lunchtime. So the fact our turnout is now far too wet for turnout really doesn’t bother them. I am in the fortunate position that means I can work them every day. But they are very much happy in the dry stables with a haynet. One of mine also suffers from mud fever and I have to say it’s much easier to manage when she’s not out in a wet paddock for hours.

 

[ycbm]

I get that but upon doing a little bit of research online and looking at similar threads the majority of people think it’s not acceptable to keep a horse stabled constantly with no turnout as they need time to stretch their legs and behave like a horse. I’m just worried that one day he will have a lot of pent up energy and do something silly while I’m riding.

But you can't change it. If you're that worried, your only option is to stop the loan.

 

[laura_nash]

What are everyone’s thoughts on loaning a horse which doesn’t get winter turnout?

I'm anti no turnout generally, but it's very different part loaning or sharing vs being the one that imposes that lifestyle. If you didn't loan him, presumably he'd get less exercise and less time out of his box? Not all horses go nuts with no turnout, though I still don't think it's good for them mentally or physically, if he seems laid-back and non spooky I wouldn't be expecting him to suddenly errupt. I probably wouldn't because I would likely end up arguing with the owner (the fact they are happy with this lifestyle for their horse and feed garlic suggests we'd have incompatible views on lots of stuff) but if you like the horse and are better at biting your tongue than I am it might be a good fit.

 

[Berpisc]

He would appreciate some free schooling with you, you can get a feel for how he behaves and maybe do some ground work.

 

[eggs]

Whilst I prefer horses to have plenty of turnout mine make it clear in winter that four hours is enough for them if it is’t a nice sunny day.

If this potential loan horse is used to being kept in during winter and stays sensible then I don’t see a problem with continuing with the loan.

 

[Elopi]

He would appreciate some free schooling with you, you can get a feel for how he behaves and maybe do some ground work.

He’s not great at free schooling IMO, he often runs off or stops in the middle of the school for a roll but I let him off purely due to the fact he doesn’t get turnout.

 

[Elopi]

Thank you everyone for your input you’ve been very helpful and I’m going to have a little think about it. He’s perfect in every other way I’ll wait a while longer and see how he goes.

 

[NLPM]

You'll get differing opinions on here, but for me personally I couldn't loan a horse under those circumstances. Limited winter turnout is one thing; absolutely none (presumably for weeks or months) is something else entirely.

 

[Julie Ole Girl]

I'm a great believer in turnout, mine are out by 8.30am back in at 4pm, whatever the weather, rugged if need be, I do think its healthier for them. But going by my cats, who love going outside in good weather, during this weather are perfectly happy staying indoors all day, who knows? I know my horses love coming in to their stable, but also love to go out in the morning. As for your potential loan OP, is there a quiet lane you can just walk him in hand, for some fresh air and a bit of verge grass to nibble on.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

After having a horse who hates turnout my views have changed!! If he is happy and healthy then I wouldn't worry too much as long as he is exercised properly every day. Its nearly spring!

 

[splashgirl45]

although its not ideal its the owners choice to keep him at that yard, so nothing you can do... there are 2 choices, either continue the loan or dont..if the turnout is that boggy he may be better off staying in until the fields dry up. if everything else is ok can you take him out in hand for extra time out of the stable? there are many horses who dont like being in the field when the weather is bad, especially when its raining, one of mine used to jump the fence and take himself into his stable if it was raining even though he had a rug on and the rest of his mates were happily munching in the field..

 

[PurBee]

Evidently the owner is looking for a sharer due to needing him having more exposure/exercise outside the stable, as daily riding is probably difficult for them - so youre helping the horse, who, from the sounds of it, isnt a flighty nutter due to stabling. If youve ridden him already and he’s sane, suits your needs….youre helping him, he’s helping you achieve what you want and you’re helping the owner get the horse out the stable daily between you both riding…You all win.

Principally I prefer turnout, but your share case highlights the fact some horses are fine being stabled, fed and regularly ridden.
If problems develop due to months of stabling and affecting his mobility/health/riding, discuss and re-evaluate.

I read on here many yards restrict or cut winter grazing. We’re lucky the majority of horses are adaptable. The ones that dont cope with the management style soon show it, and owners hands are then forced to alter the set-up for the horse. There’s no need to bolt on a situation you personally wouldnt choose, if the horse behaviourally/physically and rideability is sane/healthy/safe.

 

[Winters100]

It would not be how I would want to keep my own horses, and the fact that he rolls while loose schooled says that he is missing something, but I don't think that you would do him any favors by ending the loan. I would just try to get him out of the box as much as you can. If you have time then maybe you could ask the owner if you can handwalk or loose school on the days that you are not riding?

 

[Annagain]

I'm a big fan of turnout and wouldn't have horses personally if they couldn't have daily turnout. However, I know it can be very difficult to get decent turnout so as long as the horse is happy and is getting the exercise and attention he needs I'm not going to judge anyone who has to keep them in for a few months. In this case it sounds like the horse is happy, settled "has the most laid back personality and isn’t spooky or sharp" (your words). It sounds like you're helping to improve his situation by giving him the exercise he needs (but maybe his owner can't give him every day) so if you like him, I wouldn't see this as a reason to stop. It could be that with his stifle problem, wet muddy slippery fields might not be good for him?

In terms of ridden behaviour, I assume you tried him relatively recently? If that's the case he's obviously the laid back, non-spooky horse you've seen WHILE being in. If you saw his owner canter him and she had no problems, there's no reason to expect he will be any different for you. Temperament usually trumps (relatively) short term conditions.

To give you an idea my old boys (now both retired) couldn't be more different. I could never ride Archie straight from the stable, he was really uncooperative to do anything with (on the ground or ridden) until he'd had a roll in the morning. Monty on the other hand did 3 months of box rest and the vet wanted him to start ridden work, starting with 5 minutes walk a day and building up 5 minutes a week to 30 minutes before being turned back out. He offered us sedalin for the first few rides but we knew we wouldn't need it. 3 months in a stable and we just got on him knowing he'd be fine.

Charlie my current boy can be a bit lively whether he'd been out or not but he's far more likely to do something in the first 5 minutes than at his first canter. If your boy is happy and relaxed in trot, I'm sure he will be in canter. Pop a neck strap on, do it right at the end of session when he's a bit tired, heavy bits back (as my instructor says) deep breath, and go for it! I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[Jellymoon]

If this is what he is used to and, despite this type of management, is well-behaved while being ridden, I wouldn’t worry too much about him suddenly exploding with you due to lack of turnout. He may not be that way inclined, his owner should be able to tell you, one would hope.
However, if you are reluctant to get involved due to the ethics of keeping a pony shut in 24/7, then that’s a different matter. IMO, it’s not ethical, but you cannot change the way the owner does things. You could look upon it as a good deed - if you don’t ride him, he’s stuck in again for another day. I’m sure he’d love to go out with you on some nice long hacks.

Just don’t expect the ponies to tell you if they are unhappy being shut in all the time because last time I checked, they can’t actually speak to us, which is probably a good thing!!!

 

[Gloi]

Not loaning him won't change that he doesn't get turnout. If you like him then loan him and make sure he gets chance for a roll and a bit of inhand grazing besides riding when you go to him.

 

[PeterNatt]

If he is used to the routine of not being turned out then he will be fine. Many of the horses that are kept in Central London get no turnout at all for months on end but do get ridden on the roads of London every day and they are completely saine and safe to ride by themselves or in company in the heaviest of wekday traffic. They are also cantered in the parks and are completly controllable.