Nocton Super Dairy

[DragonSlayer]

By all accounts they are 'assured' these issues will not be noticed, but then, no-one will find out until it's in operation, will they?

It's going to be down on the Fen, away from the main village....but if the wind is blowing the wrong way, I guess the issue might be the smell as well!

 

[EAST KENT]

Crumbs..there`ll be an awful lot of slurry ..where is THAT all going?

 

[DragonSlayer]

Crumbs..there`ll be an awful lot of slurry ..where is THAT all going?

The answer to that is halfway down this page!

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk...se-Nocton/article-2909548-detail/article.html

 

[Millyard Rejects]

Interesting point in that article DS- that neither of the men applying for this planning live in the area??

So could I apply to build my dream home on the Yorkshire Moors while I still live in Ireland for the rest of the year???

 

[DragonSlayer]

Of course they don't live in this area, they won't be able to stand the smell and noise!!

Haha!

 

[hobo]

Just a reply to East kent our cows our cows don't burn out we will deside not to breed from them when right for that cow and when ready they get sent direct to the nearest slaughter house they will be varius ages just like horses.
Solo Equest the way that milk can be sold means you can't support our way more than any other way much as we wish you could.

 

[martlin]

As far as I know, they chose Lincolnshire because of a few things:
price and availability of land
flat - easy development
TB free area
I don't think it had anything to do with living next door or not.
My opinion is that if a super dairy is OK, it's OK to build it next door to me. If it isn't OK, it isn't OK anywhere. Basically, I don't suffer from a bout of 'not-in-my-back-yard-itis'

The site is in the sticks, I would imagine the noise and light pollution isn't any worse than, let's say A17.

It's the ethical (from lack of a better word) aspect that concerns me... not necessarily healthwise, more the issue of a zero-grazers.

KitKat89, the average black-and-white in an average size dairy herd lasts around 5-6 lactations. 2-3 is on one end of the spectrum (very large units); on the other are farmers still milking 12yo cows

 

[tristar]

thank you hobo for that reassurance of what it can be like, i hear heard that 7 lactations was the average, this in an animal i believe has a natural lifespan of 30 years?

 

[EAST KENT]

Just a reply to East kent our cows our cows don't burn out we will deside not to breed from them when right for that cow and when ready they get sent direct to the nearest slaughter house they will be varius ages just like horses.
Solo Equest the way that milk can be sold means you can't support our way more than any other way much as we wish you could.

Still curious as to how many lactations your herd manages ,on average,before "you decide" not to breed them again.Answer??

 

[Alec Swan]

martlin,

your interesting posts come, I suspect, from a degree of experience. An interesting thread.

Alec.

 

[SusieT]

Realistically, I woudl rather see a new large facility in that has lots of planning behind it than many of the older parlours and housing (many of which are too short for the modern dairy cow) with grazing. In a large facility such as this the walkways will be optimal for good foot conditions, and the housing large enough that each animal can wander if they so desire. A dairy cows life is made up of lying down (cubicles-need to be comfortable. If they're not comfortable they don't lie correctly in them), eating which can be grass or silage and milking, which can take up a couple of hours of the day if not mroe. In a big well designed system the animal will spend less time standing in sub optimal conditions waiting to be milked and then waiting to go back to cubicles.
I would hope (haven't seen the plans) there is an outside yard, most of the new larger famrs have this where the cows can go and stand outside. Beyond this, if the cows never know what they're missing, I have seen very happy cows in large systems. I have seen dirty, lame cows in old housing systems (majority of cows come in over winter) and good cows in old systems. I have yet to see dirty, lame cows in new build farms under good management (which is all the ones I've seen) as the facilities are far better.
If anyone saw that programme on teh American large farm, it looked brilliant.
ETS-regarding the intensified pig production being compared to the dairy, it's nothing like it. A sick/lame/badly treated dairy cow will not produce as much milk, whereas a pig is very fertile and only has to churn out litters. I despise intensive pig farming, intensive dairy farming is nothing like it, the animals can always get up and walk around, they generally have access to ad lib food etc. etc.

 

[hobo]

Not avoiding your question East kent but haven't worked out proper average but we have a folder full of certificates of their production awards most cows min 5 lacs up to 8 lacs but you will always have the odd one that only does a couple. I would have to take out of the averages of all the cows that are KILLED by the government for failling a TB test that when postmortemed DO NOT HAVE TB.
I have had 4 horses before my current mare and foal . 2 got to 25, 1 got to 21, and one got to 5, so that pulls done the average age they have lasted.
SusieT says a lot of good points which is what I said at the begining it is not the size but what you do with it.
I won't add any more but anyone is always welcome to come and see how our dairy farm is run.

 

[martlin]

Alec, thanks for your appreciation

SusieT, I can kind of see your point, but it saddens me in parts.
Yes, modern dairy cow spends a lot of time lying down, ever wondered why? Because the way it is put together doesn't allow it to stand up and walk around much, and we are responsible for it Its feet are not up to its weight and its pelvis is struggling to keep the udder up...
There are supposed to be loafing paddocks with sand provided at Nocton, so yes, they will have access to the outdoors.

 

[EAST KENT]

Not avoiding your question East kent but haven't worked out proper average but we have a folder full of certificates of their production awards most cows min 5 lacs up to 8 lacs but you will always have the odd one that only does a couple. I would have to take out of the averages of all the cows that are KILLED by the government for failling a TB test that when postmortemed DO NOT HAVE TB.
I have had 4 horses before my current mare and foal . 2 got to 25, 1 got to 21, and one got to 5, so that pulls done the average age they have lasted.
SusieT says a lot of good points which is what I said at the begining it is not the size but what you do with it.
I won't add any more but anyone is always welcome to come and see how our dairy farm is run.

Oh that`s better than average is`nt it? So quite a few get to eight or nine years old ?As to the TB thing..why can the National Herd not be vaccinated???That is the bit I don`t get..you have a disease ,a vax available..but instead all reactors are slaughtered and badgers murdered as the culprets as well.Don`t get it. Again,with F@M..vax available,why not ring fence so many miles by vaxing instead of waiting till it spreads and killing millions.Lack of forethought and understanding of disease control methods available springs to mind.

 

[hobo]

EastKent add 2-3yrs to lac numbers so most go over 10 years in the breed book there are quite a few farms big and small that have 10+lacs but you are getting to the top end then cows probably 14years old than.
As to the TB I wish I did understand what the govenment get upto but that is a whole different debate. Luckly I haven't had to chain myself to the gate to protect some favorite cows yet, I don't understand why we can't vaccinate.

Well Martlin you got plenty of discussion going well done.

 

[Millyard Rejects]

EastKent add 2-3yrs to lac numbers so most go over 10 years in the breed book there are quite a few farms big and small that have 10+lacs but you are getting to the top end then cows probably 14years old than.
As to the TB I wish I did understand what the govenment get upto but that is a whole different debate. Luckly I haven't had to chain myself to the gate to protect some favorite cows yet, I don't understand why we can't vaccinate.

Well Martlin you got plenty of discussion going well done.

Whats the average age then of a breeding cow of meat animals Would that be older?
And TB- same old catch 22 if vaccinate the herd then herd shows positive in tb test then tb test would be defunct and government cant claim the money back from drug companies?
Isnt it the case that vaccinating is cheaper than the tb test itself so the government would be out of pocket? Or so I was led to believe!

 

[martlin]

Whats the average age then of a breeding cow of meat animals Would that be older?

Depends on breed, the native, traditionals breed quite easily in their mid teens.

 

[lizness]

I think that a lot of people opposed to this are looking at this in a very idealistic way. farming is a business, it needs to produce money therefore be run efficiantly.

Therefore as a cow gets older it produced less milk and takes longer to get in calf with the very low price farmers get for milk and the high price of feed it is not economical to keep older cows. My OH's farm have a relatively high herd average age but would be more efficiant if older cows were culled.

My OH runs a family dairy herd with 50 milking cows at a time these go out 6months a year. It is near impossible to put them out for any longer in the north as it is wet. Consider the mess your horses make of fields then times it by 60. However they go out for 6months a year which is lovely and they are much better out.

Those critising keeping cows in whether it is all year should maybe consider the conditions, cows are kept in a herd enviromnt they can interact with othert cows all the time have free access to food and water and shelter in very clean environments they may not be able to run around but can have a good wander. In comparison to the normal horse is this so bad?

Dairy farmers have no protection. When dairy farmers of Britain went bust a lot of farmers lost at least two months pay for milk and a lot lost money tied up in shares. The government offered no help with this (i think anyway!) compare this with the banks.

Responsibility has to be taken by the supermarkets, there was a very interesting article in a magazine and can't find the figures about how the price has changed and how this has reflected on the price given to the processesor and farmer, farmer price did not reflect very much on the retail price

Excuse the essay, in conclusion whilst no-one regulates milk prices and encourages milk production more and more super dairies will appear and more and more family farms will close down.

 

[firm]

How come then New Zealand can keep their animals outside, not recieve much/any subsidy and export their free range Anchor butter, lamb etc overhere and be so competitive? Educate me, as not having a go, just wondering 'cos that is what I read in the press?

 

[martlin]

Lizness - I can assure you that I am firmly based in reality Our cattle do come in for the winter, they are still out now, but will have to be in next week probably. I don't think we could take it financially if they were in for 6 months, though.
Firm - I have no idea, don't know enough about New Zealand's farming to feel qualified to comment. I do, however, believe that we should buy British wherever and whenever possible, if the consumer doesn't support British farming, nobody else will.

A word on Single Farm Payment for me - I would be more than happy to forego my subsidy, on the condition that I get paid for my beef and lamb more than it actually costs to produce it, because as it is atm, SFP is the only thing that keeps our heads over water - that and a real job each

 

[EAST KENT]

How come then New Zealand can keep their animals outside, not recieve much/any subsidy and export their free range Anchor butter, lamb etc overhere and be so competitive? Educate me, as not having a go, just wondering 'cos that is what I read in the press?

As I understand it the cattle are out all year,there is a far longer grass growing season there.The milking equipment is mobile so it goes to the cows,not as we do,our way creating muddy wet tracks.Channel Island breeds are still used in NZ,with their higher butterfats.We battle the weather here,so cows are mostly in for six months ..that costs! Our costs with year round green grass would result in competitive products as well.Right now our farmers struggle with the climate and a totally unsupportive Defra.
I am so glad Hobo`s girls live longer,I had almost thought all milkers burnt out after three or four lactations..not a pleasant thought if you are someone who loves cows..esp Jerseys!

 

[lizness]

Is it maybe drier out there is also a much larger country than england with i expect much lower land prices? Also they maybve get aid properly for their milk?

 

[Angelbones]

...sitting here with nothing to contribute at all as I know sod all about any of it ....

BUT I want to know all the stuff that Martlin knows, I'm jealous

 

[martlin]

BUT I want to know all the stuff that Martlin knows, I'm jealous

I'm not quite sure how to take it, but I will assume it is a complement and say thanks I do a lot of reading... and remembering random stuff, too

 

[mon]

on the whole our welfare is one of the best in the world, NZ is no better than ours cows tails docked, sheep not as well shepherded left to lamb on own less assistance with difficult births etc so farmers 'manage' much larger herds flocks than we do so less wae per kg meat or litre milk and not housed so great savins there, I never buy foreign if there is a good english equivelent, and who woul complain if the dairy farm at nocton were on several different holdings?

 

[EAST KENT]

on the whole our welfare is one of the best in the world, NZ is no better than ours cows tails docked, sheep not as well shepherded left to lamb on own less assistance with difficult births etc so farmers 'manage' much larger herds flocks than we do so less wae per kg meat or litre milk and not housed so great savins there, I never buy foreign if there is a good english equivelent, and who woul complain if the dairy farm at nocton were on several different holdings?

Why would anyone DOCK a cow???

 

[mon]

to stop the swish hair getting dirty and attracting flies and hitting milkers around head at milking time.

 

[Berpisc]

^ Blimey! I used to wear a hat....

 

[brighteyes]

^ lots more flies in NZ?

 

[Tiggy1]

Martlin with you regards to SPS.
As to superdairy really don't like them.
Cows should be outside, sun on backs scratching etc etc.
Understand that conformation lets them down but we made them that way