Noelle Floyd Equestrian Masterclasses

Ambers Echo

Ambers Echo

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Hi

I have signed up to receive these.

https://masterclass.noellefloyd.com/membership-library

You can do any course you want and there is a workbook to download and work through.

I've done the first Tik Maynard one and am now working through the Anne Kursinski one.#

@Red-1 asked for more info so here goes:

Tik Maynard

There are 12 lessons and I guess people will take different things away from them. But for me the key one was about his views on learning versus coping. He wants people to be able to tune into how relaxed or anxious their horses are and be able to rank them on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is totally relaxed and 10 is in blind panic. And 5 is stressed but just about holding it together in terms of behaviour. He says no-one really tries to carry on schooling when their horse is at 7+ - people recognise they need to do some work on the ground or deal with the anxiety first as the horse will be unsafe when that unsettled. But plenty school at 5. In his view horses at 5 might comply with requests but they will be coping not learning. So his priority before any session is to try to walk and trot the horse around on a long rein ro make sure he is tuned in to the rider, calm and focused. If he can't do that because the horse is too anxious then reducing the horse's anxiety is the priority before any other work takes place. This can be done under saddle in a variety of different ways depending on the horse, but the priority is reducing the horse's tension till he CAN amble around on a long rein or stand with a lowered head without fidgeting.

This was really timely for us because Dolly had 2 rides in a row which I think made her anxious - a jumping lesson in the wind and then a dressage lesson. (Pre lock down obviously). There was a haylage bale next to the arena and a portion of it came undone in the wind and was flapping. She spooked at that. Then the piece of plastic actually came off and flew right between her legs and she spooked violently at that too. There was a really weird flappy noise too. The lesson basically carried on regardless. And Dolly was fine. No running off/bucking etc but she was just tense and rushing. Then the next day she had a dressage lesson and she was a little bit more tense before she even started. So she was less rhythmic and was rushing a bit. This was when the RI tried to ask her to halt, back up and then trot on and she did not understand the back-up cue and RI escalated the pressure and the wheels came off. (I mentioned that on a different thread). When I say the wheels came off, I just mean in a sweet, kind, Dolly way. Not in a get the f off my back Amber way! So nothing dramatic happened and Dolly eventually understood and the lesson carried on. But I was unhappy at the time and after seeing the Tik lesson I am clearer that this was not helpful. She was tense already. Then she was asked to learn somethign new and struggled. Then she was punished for struggling. None of which is fair or helpful. Written down like that is seems so onvious but I can think of 100 lessons in which a horse is a bit unsettled but the lesson just carries on and the horse does usually settle. But Tik would say the horse was COPING not actively learning. Or not learning as well as he/she could anyway.

After that dressage lesson Dolly was upset for a few rides. In the meantime I watched this masterclass and we spent a whole session on helping her relax which she did by the end. And now Katie does the long rein/amble 'test' before anything else allowing her to go wherever she wants in the arena. Some days she just walks around aimlessly and is chilled which means that whole process takes no longer than about a minute. Other days she goes more purposefully over to something that has caught her eye and puts her nose on it - most recently my jacket that I had hung up on the gate. So to me it looks like she is just checking out anything that might concern her which means fewer distractions when the actual work starts. Other days she needs a decent work in at a faster gait before she can amble. We are getting more blowing when we work her in too.

Anyway just putting it out there for anyone interested! This is all new so although I can relate it to Dolly and it makes sense I am open to other perspectives and ideas.
 
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Ambers Echo said:
Hi

I have signed up to receive these.

https://masterclass.noellefloyd.com/membership-library

You can do any course you want and there is a workbook to download and work through.

I've done the first Tik Maynard one and am now working through the Anne Kursinski one.#

@Red-1 asked for more info so here goes:

Tik Maynard

There are 12 lessons and I guess people will take different things away from them. But for me the key one was about his views on learning versus coping. He wants people to be able to tune into how relaxed or anxious their horses are and be able to rank them on a scale of 1-10 where 1 is totally relaxed and 10 is in blind panic. And 5 is stressed but just about holding it together in terms of behaviour. He says no-one really tries to carry on schooling when their horse is at 7+ - people recognise they need to do some work on the ground or deal with the anxiety first as the horse will be unsafe when that unsettled. But plenty school at 5. In his view horses at 5 might comply with requests but they will be coping not learning. So his priority before any session is to try to walk and trot the horse around on a long rein ro make sure he is tuned in to the rider, calm and focused. If he can't do that because the horse is too anxious then reducing the horse's anxiety is the priority before any other work takes place. This can be done under saddle in a variety of different ways depending on the horse, but the priority is reducing the horse's tension till he CAN amble around on a long rein or stand with a lowered head without fidgeting.

This was really timely for us because Dolly had 2 rides in a row which I think made her anxious - a jumping lesson in the wind and then a dressage lesson. (Pre lock down obviously). There was a haylage bale next to the arena and a portion of it came undone in the wind and was flapping. She spooked at that. Then the piece of plastic actually came off and flew right between her legs and she spooked violently at that too. There was a really weird flappy noise too. The lesson basically carried on regardless. And Dolly was fine. No bolting/bucking etc but she was just tense and rushing. Then the next day she had a dressage lesson and she was a little bit more tense before she even started. So she was less rhythmic and was rushing a bit. This was when the RI tried to ask her to halt, back up and then trot on and she did not understand the back-up cue and RI escalated the pressure and the wheels came off. (I mentioned that on a different thread). When I say the wheels came off, I just mean in a sweet, kind, Dolly way. Not in a get the f off my back Amber way! So nothing dramatic happened and Dolly eventually understood and the lesson carried on. But I was unhappy at the time and after seeing the Tik lesson I am clearer that this was not helpful. She was tense already. Then she was asked to learn somethign new and struggled. Then she was punished for struggling. None of which is fair or helpful. Written down like that is seems so onvious but I can think of 100 lessons in which a horse is a bit unsettled but the lesson just carries on and the horse does usually settle. But Tik would say the horse was COPING not actively learning. Or not learning as well as he/she could anyway.

After that dressage lesson Dolly was upset for a few rides. In the meantime I watched this masterclass and we spent a whole session on helping her relax which she did by the end. And now Katie does the long rein/amble 'test' before anything else allowing her to go wherever she wants in the arena. Some days she just walks around aimlessly and is chilled which means that whole process takes no longer than about a minute. Other days she goes more purposefully over to something that has caught her eye and puts her nose on it - most recently my jacket that I had hung up on the gate. So to me it looks like she is just checking out anything that might concern her which means fewer distractions when the actual work starts. Other days she needs a decent work in at a faster gait before she can amble. We are getting more blowing when we work her in too.

Anyway just putting it out there for anyone interested! This is all new so although I can relate it to Dolly and it makes sense I am open to other perspectives and ideas.
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Very interesting. I'll be putting that in practice. I have one that is naturally very quiet but not the most confident. He will shutdown on the ground if he loses confidence. If he can't cope with something when ridden he'll either freeze or go backwards.

Before him, I was used to the types that would spook or run when upset so he was a learning curve.
 
I will take a look because this is something that interests me, currently having 2 very reactive horses that tend to need a different approach. Neither would get anywhere near being able to amble around our arena at home until they have done some focussed work, I have tried to get this first and it is fairly impossible (both settle quickly after a quick nose around another arena, our home school has bad vibes).

Regarding the dolly lesson, I would say that when a timeslot is allocated for a lesson, people will tend towards pushing through an issue regardless (to an extent) in order to deliver the content of the lesson. When we are working by ourselves it's easier to put aside what you had intended to do and spend an hour dealing with an "environment" type of issue. It's ideal if the trainer can combine environment-dealing with content delivery ;)
 
Oh :( I wanted to see the content before having to pay! have already got a stash of paid for stuff to work through. I will look forward to more reports from other HHOers instead I guess :)
 
Sorry should have said this is not free content. There is a fee to access it all. I hope the ppost ia allowed. I am not advertising it - just describing it! Apologies if I have broken any rules.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Sorry should have said this is not free content. There is a fee to access it all. I hope the ppost ia allowed. I am not advertising it - just describing it! Apologies if I have broken any rules.
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No I don't think so :) I was just being hopeful I think :p
 
milliepops said:
Regarding the dolly lesson, I would say that when a timeslot is allocated for a lesson, people will tend towards pushing through an issue regardless (to an extent) in order to deliver the content of the lesson.
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I think this is very true. I can imagine some people would be unimpressed if they pay to hire a XC facility and have a lesosn on it, not to actually get to the juming part because the horse is not relaxed enough yet! Though that is exactly what happened at the Tik camp. Some people did not even mount till the 2nd day and 1 person did her whole XC session from the ground.
 
Ambers Echo said:
I think this is very true. I can imagine some people would be unimpressed if they pay to hire a XC facility and have a lesosn on it, not to actually get to the juming part because the horse is not relaxed enough yet! Though that is exactly what happened at the Tik camp. Some people did not even mount till the 2nd day and 1 person did her whole XC session from the ground.
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I think that's fine if that's what people are expecting ;) it depends on flexibility on the part of the client and also the trainer, all comes down to expectations and experience a bit, I think?

IMO both approaches are valid, if you are entered for a championship show, say, and the horse doesn't like the environment much you might ask it to suck it up and cope, so you need to know that you can both do that sometimes, and the ideal time to practice "coping" is at home where you are in control of things. But equally if you only ever do coping, then you aren't maybe doing enough learning.
I definitely have a case of that, Darcy copes at home and learns away from home, that's why I stopped riding him when the lockdown started and we couldn't box out. because if all we do all summer is cope, I'm going to be cheesed off and so is he.
 
Oh totally agree. I want to jump when I pay a bloody fortune to hire a facility and I can work on 'learning' elsewhere. But there is a space and time for both I think. In the dressage and jumping lessons a 'we need to help Dolly relax actually' approach would have been a better use of time perhaps. And it is not one of the other anyway. Once the horse does relax, they can crack on quicker even within that lesson.
 
Just wanted to add a bit on this - the ambling round on a long rein is not a way of relaxing the horse it is a way of seeing if your horse is already relaxed. If not then what you do next depends on the horse - but in general:

- Give the horse a job: tell it to DO something not to stop doing something.
- Make it a job horse knows well and is confident in
- Make sure the energy required to do the job matches the emotional energy of the horse. You are not suppressing anxious energy but re-directing it.
 
Interesting. But I could ride bog on a long rein in walk and trot straight away no issue. That doesn’t for one moment mean he’s relaxed, he is just taught that if he increases pace on long rein however buzzy there will then be contact. He is super hot to hack but still does most of it on a long relaxed rein.
 
Yeah I'm paraphrasing: there is a section on 'How to tell if your horse is anxious'. Behaviour ridden is just one of many things to look out for. xx
 
When you say long rein and amble are you meaning long rein or loose rein as the difference in the two is often overlooked, Michen uses the term long rein but then says 'if he increases his pace there will then be contact' sorry M but that is wrong, long rein should still be on a contact, having a loose rein then taking a contact if they become tense will add to tension not reduce it, having a long rein and taking a little more contact can reduce tension by giving them more focus and a job even if it is just a few strides while they relax again.

By amble are they wanting a lazy walk or something relatively active where the horse is stretching over the back and overtracking?

I have always aimed to have horses warm up in all paces on a long, sometimes a loose, rein and most over time can do a whole session on a long rein, they should be able to be picked up and asked for more and put down longer and lower without tension, it is the basis of training, not always easy to attain especially when restarting something that is already established.
 
be positive said:
When you say long rein and amble are you meaning long rein or loose rein as the difference in the two is often overlooked, Michen uses the term long rein but then says 'if he increases his pace there will then be contact' sorry M but that is wrong, long rein should still be on a contact, having a loose rein then taking a contact if they become tense will add to tension not reduce it, having a long rein and taking a little more contact can reduce tension by giving them more focus and a job even if it is just a few strides while they relax again.

By amble are they wanting a lazy walk or something relatively active where the horse is stretching over the back and overtracking?

I have always aimed to have horses warm up in all paces on a long, sometimes a loose, rein and most over time can do a whole session on a long rein, they should be able to be picked up and asked for more and put down longer and lower without tension, it is the basis of training, not always easy to attain especially when restarting something that is already established.
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I’m meaning it from the point of view out hacking that he can be buzzy and hot on a long rein, but if he tries to increase the pace he will then he corrected. He has to stay within the pace however much he may want to break into trot without me having to ride him in a strong contact to keep him there. Makes sense to me :) probably I mean loose rein. Works for him and I anyway!
 
Michen said:
I’m meaning it from the point of view out hacking that he can be buzzy and hot on a long rein, but if he tries to increase the pace he will then he corrected. He has to stay within the pace however much he may want to break into trot without me having to ride him in a strong contact to keep him there. Makes sense to me :) probably I mean loose rein. Works for him and I anyway!
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I just wanted clarity on whether it was long or loose AE was talking about, the difference is subtle but from the horses point of view the difference is fairly extreme, long rein can still be on a fairly good contact, can allow the rider to clearly ask for a bend, loose means no contact and the change from that can make horses tense as the reins get picked up, often as the cue to start work, sometimes it is really obvious that the relaxed horse ambling on a loose rein is really tense and waiting for the reins to be picked up and off they go when it happens.
 
That's really interesting. About the only time Blue is totally relaxed with no intervention from me is when she's hacking with her best bud, M. Even in her stable, she's got a bit of tension. People don't expect it, partly because she's a cob, and partly because you have to push her really far before she'll react to the tension.

Thinking back, it is when she's given something to concentrate on that she starts to relax, whether that's schooling or clicker training.

That's been a bit of a lightbulb moment! Thank you!
 
be positive said:
I just wanted clarity on whether it was long or loose AE was talking about, the difference is subtle but from the horses point of view the difference is fairly extreme, long rein can still be on a fairly good contact, can allow the rider to clearly ask for a bend, loose means no contact and the change from that can make horses tense as the reins get picked up, often as the cue to start work, sometimes it is really obvious that the relaxed horse ambling on a loose rein is really tense and waiting for the reins to be picked up and off they go when it happens.
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I see what you mean. I sort of go the other way with Bog to keep him chilled hacking. When he’s hot and fired up the best thing to do is relax the rein. And light a ciggy if you have one ;)
 
BP I have been back to look at the video where he demonstrates how he warms up an event horse. He starts the video already mounted and he says he is paying attention to where the horse is thinking: forward/backwards/upwards and the overall picture/feel re tension.

He sets off on the buckle end with reins in one hand. Horse goes over to nose a jump and he allows that. He then walks round on both reins on the buckle end, one handed. He then picks up trot and is now on a long rein. He said he is slowly picking up the contact and getting horse bwtween hand and leg but on a very long rein to start with. The trot is active and over tracking. He then lets rein out to the buckle end and horse maintains rhythm. He then takes life out of his body and bring horse back to halt on buckle. Does this on both reins.

Then he picks up the contact more and starts doing trot/canter transitions. Adrenaline goes up a bit and horse becomes a little more tense. Maintains the contact saying this is not when to lenghten but instead give the horse more to do - lengthening and shortening strides, leg yielding, circling in canter. So he does that with the horse who was speeding up a bit. And when horse was rhythmic and calm he came back to halt and said now he could start the gridwork exercise as hprse was mentally and physically ready to work.
 
That all makes sense and is pretty much what I was thinking, basically wander about a bit then once in trot play about with the contact, starting on a long rein and feeling what is going on under him all the time, reacting to the horse, it is that feel that is so hard to explain he knows what he is doing, why he is doing it but his timing will be all important and it is that that is so hard to get across.

When I used to do a bit of selling my final part of showing off most, they tended to be RC types, was to extend the canter and at the end drop the reins to the buckle as I sat down and they came back to halt, most of mine will do that, it looks impressive but with a genuinely relaxed horse it is easy to achieve, it certainly helped with selling many of them .
 
Done a few more of these online lessons. Just watched Tik's horses rushing at jumps one which was good. The first thing he said was work out at what point the problem (rushing) kicks in. Ie assuming your goal is a calm course at 90cm then that the is the end point which you can't yet do. But where is the start point which you CAN already do. Can you walk over one pole? Several poles? Can you trot over one? Several? Can you do canter poles. Can you do a small cross pole from trot, from canter?

Once you have your 'place where things start to breakdown' then that's where you train. In my case (post trainer) that is currently trotting raised poles and cantering 2 poles spaced apart. Pre trainer we were fine with any type of poles and with jumping small courses - only getting the rushing at higher fences. So we have regressed a lot which is frustrating. Tik said the worst thing to do is to just put your horse at a jump and try and slow it down. Instead start from where the horse is already calm and rhythmic to the fence (or pole) and then gradually move on from there.

Specific exercises: For all these jump calmly out of trot before you jump out of canter.

- Trot 4 bigger steps, 4 smaller steps for a few circles to get the horse between hand and leg and listening before any approach

- turn off in a smooth arc before the jump in both directions a few times before allowing horse to carry on over. Turn say 4 or 5 times for every time you jump.

- Halt after jumps. (But not if horse is very anxious as this can wind them up). He says you can't get a good half halt if you don't have a good halt. So if your horse gets used to halting between fences on a course sometimes then when you half halt between fences you don't just get a physical re-balancing but also a mental checking back in with you.

- If a horse rushes at a fence don't pull back. Instead use an opening rein and turn smoothly away, get the trot back and try again.

- If the horse rushes after the fence smoothly ease back to halt after the jump then giving the horse a proper break when she has come to a halt. Loose rein, neck rub.

- Have a clear end point to every exercise at which the horse halts and relaxes on a loose rein.

Not sure if any of that is new to anyone - and I have tried elements of all of these but I will re-focus on this now as I have not had the clarity and focus I needed I think. They have just been quick tricks not foundational building blocks if you know what I mean.
 
Thanks for posting this thread Amber's Echo. I've been thinking about signing up for this to give me some direction with my new boy, having read what you've posted above I'm going to sign up now.
 
I have no idea if people are finding these write ups useful but it certainly helps me embed the learning so here is another one. Tik's lesson on Spooky Horses:
Disclaimer - for the full picture you will have to watch the video. I am bound to either miss or misprepresent to a certain degree - but anyway here are the key ideas I took away.

Firstly he says explosive behaviour does not come out of nowhere. He talks about stress being cumulative. So you may have a windy day, a recent clip, the numnah has a slight wrinkle etc so your horse is already near his/her limit. Then a twig snaps and the horse explodes. But the twig was not the cause just the final straw. So in dealing with spooky horses you can try and manage the environment to reduce the other sources of stress first. Then their tolerance for other stresses will be greater. Also be aware of what horses tend to find scary which is basically anything that acts predatory.

- Anything associated with a previous bad experience
- Anything new
- Anything that moves erratically
- Anything making noise
- Anything accelerating
- Anything moving towards the horse

You can try and manage an environment by doing the oppositie of those things: Horses are very reassured by something moving rhythmically away from them so if there is something specific that a horse is fearful of then have the horse follow it while it retreats and slowly make the scary object take on more predatory characteristics till the horse is curious/relaxed and eventually indifferent.

In more general terms he likes to encourage curiosity in all horses. Horses go through a predictable process: Fear, Curiosity, Playfulness, Indifference. So curiosity is an antidote against fear. Horses are naturally curious and he makes a point of encouraging that. So if the horse is walking to the field and his attention is caught by something he will allow the horse to stop and explore it. Same when riding. He does not allow it all the time because the horse sometimes has to learn to listen and ignore distractions and sometimes something is not safe for a horse to explore - eg a coffee cup on a wall that would fall and smash. But for every time he says 'no pay attention' he tries to say 'sure have a look' 4/5 times.

His mindset in encouraging a horse over or past something spooky is not 'can I make him do it' but 'can I make him more confident about it. Can I move from fear towards curiosity'. So success and failure are not whether the horse did or did not jump the water or walk through the puddle etc but how the horse felt. If you focus on the task itself and not the emotional state of the horse you can add pressure and give the horse a 2nd problem: Fear of the object PLUS pressure. If the pressure outweighs the fear they may comply but that has not taught them to feel better about things and won't help longer term. Whereas 'failing' to actually go through the puddle but having the horse paw it and then be allowed to walk past is more useful. This is all part of encouraging curiosity and also buiding trust because if you bully a horse over something that scares it his trust in you will be slightly diminished. Especially if it goes wrong! Plus he wants his horses in front of his leg 100% of the time so he won't even ask a horse to move forward if he is not 99% sure that they will. Overfacing the horse who then plants and so teaching the horse they can ignore the leg is not helpful.

If you have a spooky horse you need to be really careful to never put them into difficult situations. Even just riding a poor line can make the horse doubt you. So be very particular that you communicate to the horse that you are aware of the environment and in control and where you say to go is ok. When changing rein in an arena for example choose a place that allows a smooth turn. Don't ride your horses into dead ends or need to make abrupt changes by being distracted or not thinking about it enough. Be proactive.

When he is riding he encourages his horses to nose things and sometimes he will hide treats around the arena on things like the mounting block so the horse finds a treat when he noses the block to further reward curiosity.

If you make a point of encouragung curiosity you can use that to 'neutralise' any environment the horse finds stressful. He talked about the Thoroughbred Makeover he competed in when you get an OTTB and then compete in various disciplines the following year. He entered (and won) the Freestyle on his retrained horse. The night before the competition all the competitors were allowed in the arena for an hour. All he did for his hour was 'neutralise' the arena by first seeing which parts of the arena the horse had a problem with. In the main these were the banners around the edges and the loudspeakers. He had a friend stand behind each banner and as the horse was encouraged to approach the banner he got a carrot. It took quite a while for the horse to approach the first banner, a little less time for the 2nd. By the time the horse got all the way around the arena he was enthusiastically seeking out banners. So the spooky parts of the arena were no longer negative places and the horse could concentrate on his routine during the competition itself.

Amber is not spoooky but as it happens while I was doing groundwork on a windy day, YO was moving haylage bales and one rolled off the pile, crashed through the arena fence and landed at her feet. :eek::eek::eek:. Even Amber freaked at that!

So I encouraged her slowly to be curious about it and we got from this to this in about 20 minutes. She did in the end find and eat the treat but I was only vieoing clips. As a bonus, she has been indifferent to the haylage bales (which are very flappy) ever since. YO was absolutely mortified and they have been repositioned so they are stable now!


Anyway hope that's of some interest to some of you! There are later videos on ridden strategies on a hot, reactive horse but I've not watched them yet.
 
I think this is quite similar to some of what Tristan Tucker talks about (the fear/pressure bit esp, it's just been framed in a slightly different way on the vids I've seen.
I certainly agree with the development of curiosity, I try to do that with all my horses though it's been easier with some. Millie always was very nosy and was a super confident horse. Kira has learned to be curious and will approach something and noseboop it and then the spook is dealt with. I've found it a lot harder with Darcy because he was so shut down he just didn't have it in him to be curious. I am hoping that as he's becoming more playful in his "safe" places like the stable (started playing with the poop scoop and initiating contact by snuffling me etc) that he will start to be able to do this under saddle too :)
only asking the horse to go forward when it's able to is a good point.
 
Thanks for that, AE, I think really enjoyed it. Makes heaps of sense to me as it's very similar to the way we train dogs, with attention paid to trigger stacking, environmental desen, looking, using food etc. My pony isn't spooky but it's good to know I can deal with it in the same sort of way!
 
This is really interesting, thank you. My boy is not spooky at all (despite his name!) but I definitely recognise the trigger stacking point. We had a lesson at an arena hire the other day pre lockdown and there was just too much going on that stressed him out that day (unusual as he’s normally a head down, crack on with working kind of chap but there was wind, horses dashing about in the fields, trotting up horses on the drive and horses loading for hunting).

The instructor pushed us through but actually that day, the best thing to do was end on as positive a note as we could find and then stop. I know he’s got a great work ethic and he loves his job, so if he’s telling me he can’t cope in a situation, I’m inclined to listen these days. I’ve pushed him through in the past but then I just a get a tense, upset, stressed, explosive pony and our “dressage” as a consequence is pretty pants so what’s the point? Plus he’s 20 so it’s hardly like I’m setting him up for a lifetime of throwing in the towel when things aren’t exactly to his liking!
 
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