Nometsyn or cinnamon for insulin resistance

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whiteflower

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Has anyone fed nometsyn or cinnamon with any positive results for insulin resistance ??
We have a little one who even though slim and on a insulin resistant friendly diet came down with quite severe laminitis over the winter. Blood glucose was normal but his insulin response result was very high. Vet isn't convinced about Metformin and says very little is actually absorbed. Although now sound and still slim (still on box rest) he still has some buldging above the eyes that's concerning us....
Can't find many review on here or otherwise on the use of nometsyn but have found some info relating to cinnamon and insulin resistance in humans and reference to its use in horses but not any actual research.
I sceptical of most 'supplements' and their claims so was just hoping for others experiences.
 
I have no idea about cinnamon but if you haven't already you could also look at magnesium as a supplement and whether your grazing/forage is high in iron, in which case you need copper and zinc to counteract it.

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Thanks ycbm, our grazing is analysed by forage plus and maintained accordingly although he currently isn't, and won't for a while be grazing. He's also on the forage plus laminitis balancer which contains the magnesium he needs ? it's so difficult and we want to help him as much as possible but equally don't want to be giving him stuff that is costly but does very little to actually help him
 
NoMetSyn was a life changer for mine, I wouldn't be without it now. If you have doubts speak to EquiLife, they won't try to sell it to you if they think it's the wrong product, plus they can give some very helpful management advice based on years of hands on experience with these types of problems.

I'd used Metformin, but as your vet says it has limited effect and becomes less useful the longer they're on it. NoMetSyn seems to remain effective, and if you do have a crisis you can always add Metformin to it for a short time. I found mine lost a lot of his fat pads and became less hypersensitive to every tiny diet change - don't get me wrong, I'm still careful with his management - as well as happier and moving better.

Personally I think it's an amazing product and worth every penny.
 
whiteflower said:
Thanks ycbm, our grazing is analysed by forage plus and maintained accordingly although he currently isn't, and won't for a while be grazing. He's also on the forage plus laminitis balancer which contains the magnesium he needs ? it's so difficult and we want to help him as much as possible but equally don't want to be giving him stuff that is costly but does very little to actually help him
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Excellent.

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I’ve got a EMS pony and did a fair bit of research into loads of supplements. The laminitis site is a great resource and has loads of articles. I agree with your vet that the absorption of metformin is a bit crap, but that was the only thing that had any reasonable data behind it, so I thought sod it, I will give him as much as I can of the stuff. ( around double the dose - should say vet was aware of this too) and now 6 months later he is off all treatment and normal bloods. It’s certainly not something I would want to be giving long term but I would seriously consider it particularly as we are coming into spring.
Haven’t used nometsyn so can’t comment on that but I am seriously sceptical of anything which makes the claims they do and are not clear with ingredients.
One of the things which helped mine (which I know is a awkward time of year to try) was to get him using his metabolism properly in other ways eg no rugging in cold weather and as much movement as you can.
 
Leo Walker I can only speak from my experience, and that is that even when management was tight and I was exercising as much as he could cope with I was failing to keep on top of his problem. NoMetSyn somehow made a significant difference, and then because he could tolerate exercise better everything improved. Normally I want to know ingredients, but to be honest at the time I was so desperate I had nothing to lose and so I didn't care, my sole concern was that it didn't contain alfalfa (he reacts to it) and wasn't going to mask pain so that I broke him by exercising when he should have been rested - since they confirmed neither of these was the case I was prepared to try it and haven't looked back.
 
Whether or not you're happy supporting the company is nothing to do with whether or not the product works. I only know that putting him on it produced a significant improvement that my vet also commented on, and taking him off it had him showing signs of a problem again - his management hadn't changed either time.
 
I controlled my boys EMS with diet for first 2 years but then he got Laminitis again despite being on correct feed,soaked hay,muzzled,exercised.We then put him on Metformin and it worked for probably about 2 years at which point I let him go.Have to say that on the Metformin he looked a lot leaner-not always great at times but it did the job and allowed him to lead a pretty normal life until about a month before I let him go due to him having a permanent low grade laminitis & abcesses due to the Metformin starting to not work.He still had fat pads on the Metformin even though you could lightly see his ribs a lot of the time.He had the apple flavoured powder.
 
Nari said:
Whether or not you're happy supporting the company is nothing to do with whether or not the product works. I only know that putting him on it produced a significant improvement that my vet also commented on, and taking him off it had him showing signs of a problem again - his management hadn't changed either time.
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No it doesn't, but it is a very valid point. I covered the not working angle in the same post.
 
Mine has and is being managed by exercise, limited grass time with muzzle, and soaked hay. Also limited use of a rug this winter. The heaviest he was in was a 200gram without a neck- previously he’d have been in 350gram combos. You need to revert them back to basically how they were evolved to survive as best you can. Mine is a native cross so he was evolved to survive the hills browsing native gorse etc not being fed buckets of highly processed rubbish and fields of well kept and produced grass. Exercise wise you need to get them going to get everything working. Even when hacking I do a couple of trot sprints just to increase the heart rate.

I’ve babbled on a bit there. When he was actively laminitic we put him on levothyroxin to get the last of the fat pads off and increase the metabolism while he couldn’t be worked. He noticeably lost the awkward shoulder ones and his crest is noticeably small, almost gone but definitely flatted out.

I successfully feed Simple Systems Metaslim. It’s the only thing I’d advise to feed. I have no experience of nometsyn but I am wary of anything that doesn’t tell you what it is. Also anything that ‘prevents’ laminitis is all just a marketed con too, it’s all down to management. With simple systems at least you know you’re not putting rubbish in to them.

Babbled on there!
 
Thank you so much for the replies, the differing views was exactly what I was hoping for and also the other things to think about really is useful.

On the whole I want to try and manage him as naturally as possible, using exercise , reduced rugging etc as much as possible (although finding a small jockey that can come consistently and reliably can be a challenge !)

He is however a slightly strange one in that he's not at all overweight (marginally under and showing some ribs) and doesn't have any fat pads (he had a small crest but that has gone since hes been on box rest) he wasn't actually on grass when he came down with laminitis he was on hardstanding for the previous few weeks as it had been so wet.....the vet is rather perplexed too !

Most of what I read about laminitis and insulin resistance is about getting them to lose weight but the vet doesn't want him losing anymore. It's difficult.

Im also not convinced by the nometsyn being so secret squirrel about ingredients but it's interesting to hear that someone has had success with it....I don't think I'll go down that route right now but am bearing it in mind if we run out of other options and there is a small chance at that point I would probably give it ago.

Interesting about the Metformin....may discuss that again with the vet along with the thyroid drug. We have redone the insulin resistance test and awaiting results so if it's still very high then may discuss trying medicating anyway. It's a mine field isn't it
 
Stating the obvious here, I apologise if it’s already been mentioned- have you tested for cushings?

The being typically skinny/ribby but holding a crest and bulgy eyes are typical of metabolic problems. I’d be inclined to see if you can get hold of some levothyroxin from your vet for a little bit and feed ad-lib soaked hay to keep the fibre going in to him. It is expensive but it really does give their metabolism a kick start and get the fatty bits shifting. The Metaslim may be worth a go too, it has all the stuff in it to aid everything to work correctly. If not, try a bit of magnesium and salt in the feed.
 
holeymoley said:
Stating the obvious here, I apologise if it’s already been mentioned- have you tested for cushings?

The being typically skinny/ribby but holding a crest and bulgy eyes are typical of metabolic problems. I’d be inclined to see if you can get hold of some levothyroxin from your vet for a little bit and feed ad-lib soaked hay to keep the fibre going in to him. It is expensive but it really does give their metabolism a kick start and get the fatty bits shifting. The Metaslim may be worth a go too, it has all the stuff in it to aid everything to work correctly. If not, try a bit of magnesium and salt in the feed.
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Thank holeymoley, yes he's been tested for Cushing's and the trh test to confirm both negative. I'll have a look at the metaslim, he has thunderbrooks chaff as his 'feed' but may need to look at something safe to put weight back on soon ? he doesn't seem to follow the usual pattern.
We did discuss the levothyroxin with the vet but they didn't seem very enthusiastic about prescribing it, I guess that may change when the updated test comes back.
 
Leo Walker said:
The fact they have had a kicking off the advertising standards agency, and the steps they have taken to flout that would make me run a mile!

They don't tell you the ingredients, but going by the crap that's in Forumula4feet I wouldn't be expecting anything amazing.

Its not something I would be wasting money on. I'd give cinnamon a swerve as well. Its been a while, but last time I looked into it, it wasn't effective when fed at a sensible dose.
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I just observe this forum & have done for a very long time. I was so annoyed at the above posting that I registered to make my reply. I have absolutely no idea who you are Leo Walker & don't know if you've used NoMetsyn ? I've used it with great results & the advice given to me by Equilife Ltd was always highly professional & informative. I'm also a regular user of Formula4Feet, also with very successful results.To suggest that their products should not be used because of an advertising authority complaint is outrageous & to quote you, maybe you can tell me what steps have they done to "flout that" ? I shall continue to use NoMetsyn and Formula4Feet is the regular supplement for my horses & ponies. I welcome constructive criticism & experiences on product efficacy, & have offered my views many times elsewhere, but to condemn a product & Company because of some technical complaint is unreal & to suggest that Formula4Feet is full of crap, I'm lost for words. Please advise me what qualifies you to pass these comments, do you have horses or do you work for a competitive manufacturer of these kind of products ?
 
I actually never put 2 and 2 together there that nometsyn was made by the same people as formula4feet. I will say that I used formula4feet when we started the remedial shoeing and corrected the trim on my guy(11•and 13• rotation). I fed it from January until October and he has the strongest hooves ever now. Vet and farrier were very impressed with how tight the ‘new’ hoof had grown.
 
I haven't read the whole thread but I looked into cinnamon for our Cushing's Shetland and the dose required for a 200kg pony was simply astronomical. It's fairly effective in lab studies in humans and rodents but the dose in rats was something like 300 mg/kg so you'd have to feed vast quantities of it to see any effect. Additionally most of the studies are cinnamon extract, not cinnamon itself. So it's probably not effective financially or medically.
 
holeymoley said:
I actually never put 2 and 2 together there that nometsyn was made by the same people as formula4feet. I will say that I used formula4feet when we started the remedial shoeing and corrected the trim on my guy(11•and 13• rotation). I fed it from January until October and he has the strongest hooves ever now. Vet and farrier were very impressed with how tight the ‘new’ hoof had grown.
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I 1st got involved with the Formula4Feet company with a water based herbal product they made, called Vitex4Equids which I used on a "moody mare" - it was while taking advice on this product that i was introduced to the rest of their product range which I have found highly effective.
 
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