non-paying, non-leaving livery... what would YOU do?

Bowen4Horses

Bowen4Horses

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www.poppywebber.co.uk
so... let's think of this as a theoretical story...

say you had a little yard (oh, we can dream) and you'd let a friend of a friend keep their horses there for free on a very short term basis whilst they found some grazing for them...

now... they can't afford to pay for/can't find cheap grazing... so can't move the horses on.
and for a number of reasons you really would like them to go.

how would you get rid of them? :)
 
I would try asking nicely. Then I would try asking less nicely. Then I would write them a letter saying that as of a fortnights time, livery will be £150 a week per horse and if they don't pay, I will sell there horses to recoup the money.
 
martlin said:
Hmm, put gently to them that I need income from the space(s) they are taking up and therefore if they are not prepared to pay livery I will have to ask them to leave?
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in this theoretical world, you have a number of people who want to pay you to keep their horses there... and you've said this to the NLL (non leaving livery). you've asked them to leave. you've even found them places to go...

they just won't leave...

x
 
Really why are they staying for free in the first place?

Even short term and a friend of a friend should pay something, even a discounted rate out of politeness.

If they really cant find somewhere, short of letting the horses loose what can you do?

How did they manage to keep them before?

I think care issues should come into question and the rspca/ilph would be interested!

Someone that cant afford livery and cant find grazing should question themselves if they should really be the carer of horses.
 
blucanoo1990 said:
Really why are they staying for free in the first place?

Even short term and a friend of a friend should pay something, even a discounted rate out of politeness.
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i agree, but, if i was this theoretical YO, i was feeling particularly generous that week. and am now kicking myself.

.
If they really cant find somewhere, short of letting the horses loose what can you do?.
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exactamundo...

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I think care issues should come into question and the rspca/ilph would be interested!

Someone that cant afford livery and cant find grazing should question themselves if they should really be the carer of horses.
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what can the rspca do though? because as the theoretical YO i'd be feeding them/giving them hay and watering them, and making sure they weren't neglected.

and i don't think they'd be committing a criminal offence...

this must be a dilemma that YOs find themselves in sometimes... even paying liveries can suddenly stop paying and refuse to leave. a YO can't just let the horse's rot...

:mad:
 
Hmm personally would probably just write them a letter explaining that you need them to leave by such a date, even start having people look around who would want the space.
 
If the yard owner told the rspca they were not their horse and didnt want to keep them and the horse owners couldnt afford to keep them or have anywhere to put them then the rspca would help.
 
Give the person a weeks notice, tell them you need the space for paying liveries. If on the last day they fail to leave, tell them they have 24hrs to remove everything and the horse or they will find it either on the side of the road (horse included) or on their garden. No ifs or buts. Its a business at the end of the day and has to be run like one. I nearly ended up in this situation but thankfully they left before it came to that but needed to have a huge barney for it to happen.
 
pitchfork up the backside :eek:

Freeloaders are notoriously hard to shift.
Give them a reasonable end date and stick to it. It is going to be hard but you have to be steely about it, any hint of weakness/kindness and they will take root again.

It is no-never-mind to you that they cannot afford their horses, they need to find a solution to that particular problem that does not involve sponging off you.

Pitchfork to the ready and go girl! :D
 
Sounds like the OP may have just found out why these people suddenly needed grazing - they've been chucked off somewhere before! Note the reference to horses in the plural. Amazing how people can afford to buy them but not keep them. We've had a few doses of people like this where I keep mine and you can't help but feel sorry for the poor neds. If the solicitors letter doesn't work, I'd deliver them to a local park and let the owner argue it out with the council!! Oh yes, and change your locks etc.
 
As there isn't a written contract just a verbal contract (agreement), I would write to them giving them 4 weeks (sorry) notice of change of terms and conditions. Change the terms so that they have to pay livery or grass keep, poo pick etc etc If you want them to go make the livery charge expensive, but we prepared they might just pay up!
 
Sort of been here, got the t-shirt.

Solicitors will cost you money, and unless you have a signed contract with NLL, which presumably you don't because it was an informal agreement, there is little the law can do. The NLL is not breaking the law as such, because you offered the stable for free at the start. And from her point of view, why would she move to another yard, where she would have to pay, when she can stay at yours for free?!

So do you want to keep her as a friend, or are you past caring? If the first, can you have a friendly chat, explain you need some income as you are paying rent for the yard, and this situation can't continue.

Or get mean, write a letter to say you will be letting the stable, she has xx days to move the horse, or that from 1st May the rent will be £xx and get her to sign a livery agreement which states that you will take the horse in lieu of rent if she fails to pay.

In future make sure any livery signs a contract which says if they stop paying, you are entitled to take the horse and sell it as recompense. You can't legally sell someone's horse as part of a livery debt otherwise - I know because I tried, and the legal helplines I contacted said unless I had a signed livery agreement, I didn't have a hoof to stand on!

Hope that's some use.
 
They are taking the mickey and don't seem to be too worried about causing you problems so don't worry about them. Give them about 4 weeks notice, which they have to pay and if they don't then sell their horse to recover the cost and then for however long they are still there for sell their horses to recover your cost until they have no horses and you have no liveries .... (will need modification to be legal but know horses are often sold in these situations to clear debts)
 
If you send her a letter giving notice that you want her (and her horses and stuff) off your yard by X date, if she turns up to see neds the day after could you get her done for trespass?
 
I think I'd try writing to them informing them that your agreement was that they could stay for two weeks FOC whilst they sorted out alternate arrangements.

That the 2 weeks are now up and that they either pay £X per month in advance due on the 1st of each month, this being the normal livery rate for the facilities they are receiving or that they must remove their horses by this date.

If come Saturday the horse are still there and there is no sign of any money, then write again stating that they 24 hrs to remove the horses or you will sell one horse to pay for livery costs owed on the other.

This seems harsh but you are running a business and they can't be a very good friend of a friend if they are prepared to jeopardise both friendships.

Good Luck
 
I have kinda been here!
Except they were paying, but causing a lot of trouble on my yard hence i gave her 2 weeks notice to leave (as agreed with all liveries, 2 weeks notice on either side). She refused to go! The type of person she was, she would have ignored solicitors letters etc, so she was told that if she hadnt gone in 2 weeks time, she would find her horses tied to the front gates with her belongings next to them (i would never have actually done that but i made her think i would!) she then told me that she was revoking any permission for me to touch her horses, and if i did, she would have me done for it! (yeah yeah yeah) I also told her that once i had tied them to the gates, i would be calling the RSPCA and ILPH saying there were some dumped horses that needed collecting.
i also mentioned this lady to my landlord... who is a big guy who can be intimidating i would imagine if you are on the wrong side of him! i kept on reminding her that in 13 days time, her horses would be on the roadside, then in 12 days time.... etc
Thankfully, she vanished within a few days.

Its a tough one in your case, which i sense may actually be a real situation? I would say, if they claim they cannot pay, then say you will hold their tack or something in lieu of payments?
A lot would depend on the type of person they are to be honest, if they could be threatened with 'i will drop them off at the RSPCA', or 'i will tie them to the front gate' etc then i'd go with that TBH

Normally BTW - i am not the type of person to threatened anyone and wouldnt dream of doing what i said i would, but it got her off my yard and that was the main thing!
 
Inform them whilst they are there, the livery charge is say, £250 per week per horse. After non payment the first week send them a letter before action that you intend to take them to the Small Claims Court. You will also be asking for costs to be awarded to you (missing revenue etc) up to a maximum of £5000. Unless they are hardened crims they will not want a record or to risk paying the costs which they will likely be up for.
 
Lots of good advice which I can't improve on. But maybe you should send her a copy of the 'advert' selling her horses to see if you included all the correct information about them :D:D;)
 
Em, don't know what your situation exactly is, BUT sounds to me like you did friends a favour and they're now taking the pisticato big time. Of course, they "can't find anywhere else" if they're on a good thing with you; with their horses eating their heads off and you footing the bill, basically. I bet there are loads of places around but they're just not bothering to look.

What I'd do is to give them a week's written warning/notice, in writing, saying basically that as from such-and-such a date you will be putting them onto a proper livery agreement, with the price listed (at whatever you think is fair and reasonable); and saying that if this is not acceptable to them then their horses and their personal effects must be off your property by the given date otherwise you will be passing matters to a solicitor. Alternatively you could get a solicitor to write the letter if you think they're gonna be difficult.

I get the definate feeling you've been mega taken advantage of here and I think you are fully justified in taking a firm stance.
 
Tell them that you yourself are up against it financially and as from x date (a fortnight's time for example) you will have someone else moving in to take up their spaces at a rate of £x. However if they want to pay you the same £x then they are welcome to enter into a proper contract with you. Its been nice to be able to help them out etc but needs must, so sorry you can't help any longer, etc. Then hand over a letter stating as much for them to 'mull over later' and get back to you by this Friday.

Good luck with it, theoretically uncomfy situation.
 
thank you for all your replies to my hypothetical situation... :) i'll pass ideas onto an imaginary friend in case they ever find themselves in such a hypothetical situation... ;)

this actually is one thing i'd worry about if i was a YO. what on earth do you do if someone just doesn't leave?!?! or just doesn't feed their horse? etc etc. good job i haven't won the lottery yet... no YO-ness for me quite yet. :)

thank you all again :D
 
That's why you need a livery contract, which both parties sign, and then you have legal recourse if a livery fails to pay/move etc. At the worst way you get to keep and sell the horse, and they have any money left after expenses etc.

I learnt the hard way - I ended up buying my non-paying livery horse, because I felt sorry for him and the owner was clueless and deliberately unkind. I still have him!
 
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