Non payment of livery, what are my rights

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chocolategirl

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Hi looking for advice re a client who has given me notice that she is leaving, so I've gone to the girl in the office to check all is tickety boo with her account ( she pays by SO) and was shocked to find there are several outstanding payments totalling £480! We are only a DIY yard and this does not include the 2 weeks notice she will have to pay! She seemed surprised by this when I told her, so I've written them all down and given her a copy, and I've asked her to cross reference with her statements. My question is, can I legally stop her from taking her horse until She has paid in full? Only ask as I'm fairly certain I will have trouble getting the money from her, and in over 20 years this is the first time I have been in this situation. TIA
 
Solicitor, letter. court if necessary. As above, if you are have BHS gold membership then you can contact their legal people.
 
Aside from what is legally right or wrong.....it just strikes me as bad thinking to try to retain the horse. Better to slot this in your mind as a simple civil debt that you want to recover from the debtor and leave the horse out of it.
 
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make a spirited attempt to get the arrears from her but let her go and take immediately to the small claims court .
Debt is a cost of doing business but you need to amend your system so it's not a surprise the next time .
 
As others have said you will be able to take her to small claims court if she leaves owing you money but do check out your options with BHS, if you are a Gold member.
I would also have strong words with 'the girl in the office' who has allowed this debt to build up, without notifying you.
 
£480 debt on DIY? How on earth have you let that one slide! When someone at mine has refused to pay (albeit only a month) I told her her horse had to be off the next day, she coughed up the money.
 
What does the livery contract say? Some do include provision for a lien, so a right to hold onto the horse until the debt is settled. But not all do include that clause.
 
Demand the money and if she doesnt pay ,kick her out immediately . Let her worry about finding a new yard at short notice. Dont keep any of her goods this would inevitably lead to complications.
 
chocolategirl said:
Hi looking for advice re a client who has given me notice that she is leaving, so I've gone to the girl in the office to check all is tickety boo with her account ( she pays by SO) and was shocked to find there are several outstanding payments totalling £480! We are only a DIY yard and this does not include the 2 weeks notice she will have to pay! She seemed surprised by this when I told her, so I've written them all down and given her a copy, and I've asked her to cross reference with her statements. My question is, can I legally stop her from taking her horse until She has paid in full? Only ask as I'm fairly certain I will have trouble getting the money from her, and in over 20 years this is the first time I have been in this situation. TIA
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I'm surprised you let it get to this. Do you not keep track of payments?
 
Ok first of all thank you for the replies so far. In answer to some of the questions, yes I am a BHS gold member. In my defence I don't deal with the accounts, we have a lady in an office who does and in her defence, her father has been very ill and sadly passed away a few months ago and she was nursing him, so had quite a lot of time off. She has also been preparing for year end which has kept her very busy and as we run several very busy businesses, and the livery is only a very small one in comparison, I'm guessing it doesn't get the 'office hours' attention it possibly should? We have never found ourselves in this situation before, as we have always chosen livery clients very carefully, so this is the first time we have ever had this issue. The sum involved is substantial but actually as the payments have been missed 'here and there', i.e, no pattern, and it represents 8 over 12 months, I can sort of see how they have been missed? What I am upset about, is the client in question has made it clear several times she is very careful with money and budgets accordingly, so surely she must have realised these payments hadn't been made? I am going to take legal advice as in the event, I want to know for future reference anyway. It's definitely a lesson learned though that a much closer eye needs keeping on it.
 
Ok, if she genuinely seems careful with money (use you gut here) then I would start with a polite chat.
Note down the payments that have been missed and ask her to check her records, it may be there has been a bank error and she honestly thinks she's paid.
Ask for proof of payment (e.g. Bank statement) and if you are certain you've not received it (check your records too, you say your office person has been very stretched) then ask her for the money or suggest she checks with her bank if she is certain she has sent the S/O.
Play it by ear, if she just shrugs her shoulders and tells you to get stuffed then I think you have your answer!
If polite chat doesn't work then go BHS gold and see what else can be done.

To add, missing 8 over 12 months is a lot! How long has she been with you? She doesn't think your livery charge is per quarter, not per month does she??!

2nd edit, just seen you've already told her what payments she's missed. Has she come back with a response yet?
 
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I agree, you said she seemed surprised, it is possible that she genuinely is.

8 payments of what over 12 months, do you bill weekly because the final value wouldn't seem enough for 8 months livery!
 
ester said:
I agree, you said she seemed surprised, it is possible that she genuinely is.

8 payments of what over 12 months, do you bill weekly because the final value wouldn't seem enough for 8 months livery!
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Gut feeling is she knew about the missed payments TBH but hoped I wouldn't notice! I could be doing her an injustice which I'm willing to accept, but like I said gut feeling?? She knows I don't look at the accounts. Pays fortnightly so it equates to 16 weeks missed and as they are sporadic it's been allowed to go unnoticed. It is an oversight on our part certainly, but the fact remains, she owes us that money. I've got several clients who are keeping their horses on a tight budget but have never missed a payment in years, EVER. I think I've been a bit too trusting and perhaps a little naive too! Won't happen again!
 
I think the important thing is that you move her out asap .
Liverys talk and this sort of thing causes bad feelings one rotten apple sours the whole barrel .
Are all the other liverys up to date ?
 
I would obviously check legally but I shouldn't think you can prevent her leaving but you can present her with a final bill including arrears which gives something very tangible to use if you need to submit a small claim to recover it.
 
I think before making an assumption that it is her error, as you are saying that the accounts have not been closely monitored by yourself or the person in charge of your accounts, it would be wise to make detailed checks of your own bank account and check with your bank that the payments definitely have not been made. There was a thread on here not so long ago when a livery said she had made regular payments but the yard owner was saying they had not been received. Sounds like sitting down together and going through the evidence of payment/non payment would be a good starting point too.
 
From the other side of the fence. Many years ago a YO tried to tell me days before I was due to leave that I owed several hundred and wouldn't be allowed to move my horse until the outstanding debt was paid. They were quite abrupt with me and in honesty I was a bit shocked as I am one of those ones that checks her bank account daily and always makes sure everything is paid on time.

It turned out that as I'd been paying my additional haylage and supplement costs separately to my livery costs they had been missed by the accounts person and I was in fact up to date, although this was only acknowledged once I printed a years worth of bank statements as proof. The YO was apologetic, but the fact they'd jumped to conclusions and been quite abrupt with me did make it a little awkward in my final days.

I'm not saying your livery will be in the same boat, but if the accounts person has been off a fair bit could it be that these payments have been missed or had a different reference to their usual payments and as such have slipped through the net?
 
It's likely she doesn't know they were missed, but even if it transpires that she knew the payments had been missed and was hoping to get away with it, it's not reasonable after almost a year to suddenly demand the payment - the accounts process should have flagged it up much earlier, so I think you need to approach this amicably and agree a plan for payment. I certainly don't think you can prevent her from leaving.

You also need to look carefully at the accounts- I appreciate your finance woman has been having a ropey time, but twelve months is a long time for work to be suffering, and I am willing to bet this is not the only thing that has been missed. I'd be looking at that now before you find a hideous tangle at year end!
 
I dont think you can demand full immediate payment, after all you/your book keeper should have been far more on top of things and not let it get to this point. I think just be polite about it and sit down with her to discuss how its can be paid off, perhaps a certain amount per month? If its amicable then you're more likely to get it back eventually, get stroppy with her then obviously she'll fight it. If it did turn nasty, all you can do is go to the small claims court but to be honest I find it a waste of time - Im in the process of it against a builder. I believe I'll win, however that means nothing. The court dont force them to pay, so can you be bothered to then pay to get bayliffs out to her house?
 
FestiveFuzz said:
From the other side of the fence. Many years ago a YO tried to tell me days before I was due to leave that I owed several hundred and wouldn't be allowed to move my horse until the outstanding debt was paid. They were quite abrupt with me and in honesty I was a bit shocked as I am one of those ones that checks her bank account daily and always makes sure everything is paid on time.

It turned out that as I'd been paying my additional haylage and supplement costs separately to my livery costs they had been missed by the accounts person and I was in fact up to date, although this was only acknowledged once I printed a years worth of bank statements as proof. The YO was apologetic, but the fact they'd jumped to conclusions and been quite abrupt with me did make it a little awkward in my final days.

I'm not saying your livery will be in the same boat, but if the accounts person has been off a fair bit could it be that these payments have been missed or had a different reference to their usual payments and as such have slipped through the net?
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Umm definitely no mistake. It's been gone over twice and all payments written down and missed ones the dates noted. Client has cross checked her account and has already admitted they hadn't been paid. I have acknowledged our part in this, however, as I've said, the fact remains money is owed and it should be paid. I would never 'jump down her throat', I have far too much decorum to carry on in such a manner. :-/
 
If she has admitted she hasn't paid then she clearly isn't trying to hide anything. I would not demand all the money upfront as it is partly your fault. I would talk to her and ask her when she plans on paying and if she can't pay it all at once then suggest a payment plan of monthly installments. Allow her to move the Horse and if the payments stop or you don't get them then take her to small claims court. I would try a nicer approach first though.
 
chocolategirl said:
Umm definitely no mistake. It's been gone over twice and all payments written down and missed ones the dates noted. Client has cross checked her account and has already admitted they hadn't been paid. I have acknowledged our part in this, however, as I've said, the fact remains money is owed and it should be paid. I would never 'jump down her throat', I have far too much decorum to carry on in such a manner. :-/
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Not sure where the 'jump down her throat' quote came from as that certainly wasn't what I said at all, nor did I suggest money that is owed shouldn't be paid. I was merely pointing out that given your accounting seems to be quite lax, a mistake might have been made as was the case in my situation. As the livery has already acknowledged that this money is outstanding, I would work with them to agree a payment plan assuming they can't afford to stump up the full payment in one go.
 
Matter sorted thankfully without issue I'm glad to say. I think there should be equal blame however, us for not noticing the missed payments and her for not wondering why she had this extra money :-/. I have asked the girl in the office to keep a closer eye on things. Thanks everyone for the advice.
 
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