Not accepting contact - help please

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sonjafoers

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Hi, I desperately need some help with my 6 year old mare as she is very fussy in her mouth and not accepting the contact at all. I want to do some ODEs but really don't feel I can do a dressage test at the moment and don't know what to do.

She is currently ridden in a Myler Mullen Barrel with eggbutt cheeks, previously she was in a Sprenger KK Ultra and has tried a Sprenger Turnado although I moved her away from these as I felt she didn't like all the movement, especially with them being loose ring.

She is generally a grumpy mare, easily annoyed and hates being touched etc etc and when she gets fed up she flings her head around, sometimes quite dramatically. She used to do this when hacked especially when she had to stop at a gate or something but now does it much less when hacking. She will also hold the outline more whilst out hacking and is much more settled, accepting the contact for longer than she does in the school.

She seems to get frustrated with me when doing flat work, her ears go completely back and the head gets flung around - this is mainly when I take up the contact and ask her to work in an outline. She loves jumping & doesn't do this when doing any sort of pole work or xc schooling.

I am not a high level rider, just a normal hobby rider but I do believe I have a reasonable level of feel and am not doing anything drastically wrong. My instructor is very experienced and she still does this when he rides her, although nowhere near as much so some of the problem is my riding which I am trying to improve with my lessons!

Her teeth, back and saddle are all routinely checked and when I ask my instructor what I'm doing wrong he says it's mainly down to her difficult attitude as she doesn;t do it on any particular rein or performing any particular exercise or transition - she just does it when she gets p***ed off.

I know this is very vague but I so want to gel with her and make her comfortable and accepting in the contact and hoped someone may be able to offer some advice and maybe suggest a bit that may help.

Thank you
 
I would suggest looking in her mouth and seeing what type of bit will suit her mouth conformation as a starting point to choosing a bit.

It sounds like she is communicating a dislike about something or discomfort but you will have to work through every little detail by process of elimination to find out what.

I would also say are you working her within her physical and mental capabilities? not what you or your instructor 'think' she should be able to do but what she can actually achieve? She is still relatively young and may not be supple or balanced enough for certain work- every horse is different and some take years longer to gain strength, etc. The fact she doesnt do it when jumping may be due to adrenaline or that the enjoyment over rides her discomfort/dislike.
 
I have a similar sort of problem with my gelding - he simply gets stroppy when asked to do any sort of work that requires him to use himself, and will either not let me keep a nice contact, or will just refuse to move, and often throws some rather interesting tantrums when told that yes, he WILL move! He also doesn't do it when he's jumping/hacking etc, just when it's boring flatwork ;)
Tbh, we haven't done much different to get him out of it, just been persistent! Riding him forward into a constant elastic contact, instructor says there isn't any point in letting him go through a loose contact as then he's winning. Varying the flexion from inside to outside on both reins to prevent him from 'sticking' one way and fixing in position, lots of changes of rein, transitions & also riding a few strides of collected pace (usually trot, canter is still iffy!) and then pushing forward into working/almost medium so he has to work into the contact!
He seems to be getting a lot better now, also as he's working more correctly for longer, he's getting stronger so does find it easier therefore is happier :) Hope some of that might help! (:
 
this is prob gonna sound odd, but you need to concerntrate on working from behind and truely working,, for them to be truely on the bit!!! if alls ok with health of horse ect i would say are you riding forward into your contact and then keepin it elastic and are you as balanced as you can be and is the horse, do you lose contact on corners transititons do you get contact at all!???? a vid of your and horse would help as there could be 5 million reasons why a horse wont accept or stay on the bridle!
 
Thank you guys.

Teddyt & pinktiger you both mention balance - I know we are not balanced enough yet and although I do try I know I am not as consistent with her as I should be and my contact, although reasonably elastic, isn't perfect. These are all points I'm working on and I am aware of my shortcomings. I also know that things should improve if I keep at it and try to work her through it in a firm but sympathetic way. And pinktiger you are probably right about corners etc as I may lose my contact there, I'm not sure but will concentrate next time & see what happens!

I don't think I'm asking her for too much tbh although I'm happy to be corrected. She has been brought on really slowly, doing some low level dressage tests and clear round SJ before starting xc schooling and some TINY (2ft - 2ft 3 hunter trials). Last year she did a small unaffiliated ODE and then after doing nothing for the winter she has done a couple of hunter trials in the last few months and really come on a lot since she finished last autumn. I would really like to do a ODE again this summer but if she can't relax in the dressage I won't put us both through it.

Sol I'm glad to know I'm not the only one, I do worry that there is something wrong with her so I regularly get everything checked as well as in desperate times turning to reiki, communicators etc & nobody, including my vet & instructor both of whom who I trust implicitly, can find anything wrong. I think it is mainly down to her nature and the early stage of training we are at but I was kind of hoping someone here may suggest something I haven;t thought of yet.
 
Sounds like you're going in the right direction anyway. I would also agree with the balance thing - that's something else we're trying to combat! Dan's balance is so appalling he has been known to pretty much end up on his nose :o When we got him he walked like a drunk too... don't ask.

You say she likes jumping though and is less likely to do this when jumping? Another thing we've done is increased the amount of jumping & polework we do, as Dan is also happier doing this so I can ask a little more of him without him getting worked up, and is generally happier when we DO do flatwork. Maybe that could help? Plus, poles/grids will help her engage her hind quarters & carry herself, so should strengthen her hind end and encourage her to go forward into the contact maybe?
 
I do some pole work & grids with her but maybe not as regularly as I should. She does get very excited about this though & is very keen, getting frustrated with me when I don't do it as fast as she would like! However she is definately much happier doing any sort of poles/jumping as doesn't fling her head about at all.

I think you hit a point when you said about strengthening her back end. Confirmationally her back end is weak looking and I do a fair bit of hill work in walk & trot to try and strengthen her up. Would this play a part in her being unhappy in her flat work do you think?
 
Re the ulcers I did have a chat to my vet about this but he didn't think it was ulcers and didn't feel it necessary to scope her although he said he would do it of I really wanted it done. As a sort of compromise I put her on a course of acidease for a month but it made no difference at all.
 
It might be worth trying something like a happy mouth, maybe with a cheek or an eggbutt ring if she doesn't like a loose ring. Plenty of horses find a Myler a bit thin and sharp and can sit a bit behind them. She is probably better hacking and jumping as she will be more focussed forward so perhaps try working her around the jumps, in a field or in the middle/at the end of a hack. Lungeing her with running reins, getting her to go forward and look for the contact could also help. If you find the contact hard to keep you could try elasticated reins or turning your hand the other way on the rein so it comes between your thumb and index finger instead of round your ring finger. Make sure you ask her to pick up the rein from you rather than taking it from her.
 
sorry if that sounded like i was blaming you for it all, i really wasnt just its the easiest thing to put right (if you know what i mean) another way of finding out if its the combination of you/her is by putting you instructer on your horse n seeing if she gets the same result praps?????
 
No I didn't think you were blaming me at all, far from it, I thought everything you said made sense! I'm more than happy to be critiqued and I readily accept any advice given to me.

Oldvic - my instructor gets me to hold the reins like that sometimes but we haven't done it for a while & I'd forgotten about it. It really works doesn't it so I must get back into the habit again. Could you explain about her taking the reins please? I sort of know what you mean but when I ride her tomorrow I'd like to work on this so want to make sure I get it right.
 
My mare can be quie like this although is improving, best things i've found bitwise is a Neue Schule Starter bit - designed to encourage babies to take a contact up and bear down a bit more, mine went well in this, I've moved her into a plain eggbutt french link now, as shes taking up the contaact more but is fussy. Im not too keen on mylers on sensitive horses, find they don't tend to get on too well?
 
When you ask her to come into an outline put your leg on quietly first, then pick up a contact by pushing her to an elastic feel on the reins. At first feel that you are getting a reaction to your leg even if she isn't round. When you have that you can keep the contact with a relaxed elbow by holding her with your leg up to the bit. When she is forward to the contact then it is possible to do something about the outline without disturbing her too much.
 
Thank you little me, I also don't think the myler is the best bit for her but I got it on trial first and she did initially seem to like it. After I actually bought it she decided she didn't!! I have spoken to Heather at NS and she thought the hanging cheek with a lozenge may work but I am going to borrow one before I spend any more money.

Thank you oldvic that really helps - I think I do concentrate more on my contact rather than my leg when asking for an outline because I'm so worried about upsetting her mouth so I am going to try your suggestion tomorrow and hopefully once I get the feel things may improve.

Thank you everyone, I actually feel a bit better about it all now :-)
 
Hi Sonjafoers,

I am glad you have posted this as I used to have exactly the same trouble with my super stress head young mare, but we have managed to overcome it.

The exact reason for the issues with her head and mouth was because she is very forwards and stressy - I spent all my time focusing on slowing her down and trying to steady her which meant I really wasnt riding with my seat and legs anywhere near enough.

I was always so preoccupied with her whizzing off that I never really pushed her forwards into a decent contact,

Take her back to basics, I did an awful lot of walking and halt, pushing her to a forwards walk, then bringing her back etc etc then once she really understood that using my legs didnt mean zoom off at a million miles an hour with your head like a camel and your ears flat back, we moved on to trot work and canter work.

I still find trot the hardest gait to keep her forwards, non stressy and on the bit - but we have come a million miles forwards in the last 12 months.

I also found that with her irritability I really was not sitting up correctly and using my legs to send her forward to the contact so now always check my position and ride with a soft forward contact, and remind myself that any aid with the reins should follow and aid with the seat/legs not the other way round.

Good luck - I am sure you can sort it :)

Gem
 
Thank you Gemsie, it's so good to know that others have had this problem & managed to work through it or at least improve it.

I think what you have said is completely right, I don't use my legs & seat enough because I concentrate on my hands so much I tend to forget about the rest. I think it's because she flings her head about so much that I worry about upsetting her mouth whereas if I just tried to ignore it and actually 'ride' her I may see an improvement eventually!

I followed oldvics advice this morning, really concentrated & took each bit step by step. We did manage a few moments of relaxed contact in a nice outline and it felt really good - didn't last long mind you but it was a tiny improvement so I must stay positive.

Just out of interest Gemsie what sort of bit suits your mare best?
 
I am having the same problem with my boy but I have a problem with the fact that he is 17hh!!! But I am afriad that it is transitions transitions transistions. It will help them to sit from behind and listening!!! I have put him in a waterford snaffle because he cant grab on to as much.
 
No worries sonjafoers,

I currrently ride my girl in a myler comfort snaffle (dressage legal) with a crank flash noseband.

The best advice I can give is exactly like you say, stop worrying about her head and really ride her with your seat and legs - the head and neck is the final thing to drop into place.

Old habit are hard to break though, i constantly remind myself to keep sending her forwards to the bit, then slow her down - which is really helping.

Hard though when you have a very forwards stressy horse!

Good luck, keep us posted with how you are getting on,

Gem
 
My thoughts on this are:

1. Ditch the myler, I haven't found many horses respond well to them, and one I ride that is very similar to your mare is positively horrid in it. I'd switch to something with a french link or lozenge. If she doesn't like movement a hanging cheek might be worth a try, or a full cheek, complete with keepers. I wouldn't bother with a happy mouth, they can quickly get rough and upset a sensitive horse.

2. If she is better hacking and jumping I wonder if this is a rider problem and you are over thinking it and concentrating too much on where her head is. The position of her head is the last thing to fall into place and will happen naturally if you ride the rest of the horse properly. It is really easy to think so much about the outline and the contact that you get a bit handy.

Try to focus on forward in balance with a nice rhythm, then think flexion and bend and eventually the outline will follow. Do not push her forwards out of her natural rythm, you may need to slow the rhythm a bit to allow her to balance and use herself. When she is stepping through, keeping an even and consistent rhythm and flexing both ways willingly and softly the outline will come. Look at the scales of training and follow them, don't start asking her to run before she can walk.

Work her correctly when you are hacking as she is more settled and it will help her to strengthen all the right muscles to make it easier for your lessons (some head tossing could be because she is starting to tire in her muscles). Then in the school try to ride her as you do when hacking, don't give yourself performance pressure, concentrate on the basics and ignore her head.

Good Luck.
 
Ok, I am in the process of ditching the Myler as you suggest Katt and my instructor is bringing a hanging cheek for me to try on Wednesday.

A few people on here have mentioned the balance, riding forward etc & thinking about it I am getting hung up on where her head is ( or rather should be) and maybe I am trying to force the outline with my hands rather than allowing it to happen naturally. I also know I ride differently when in the school doing flatwork than I do when hacking, almost like I feel I should get an outline because we are in there to work.

Whilst hacking during the last week I have been asking for an outline in the order oldvic recommended and I am getting one briefly before the head throwing - I am really trying to be soft & do nothing when we get it in the hope she will understand this means she has done the right thing.

I groomed for my friend at ODE yesterday & I have to say that some of the things I saw made me realise my problem isn't actually as bad as I believe it to be and maybe I should just get out there & give it a go! Who cares if we are last in the dressage when we have the fun of SJ and XC to follow!
 
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