Not Allowed To Help Other Liveries/ Friends?

I went and looked round a yard where the YO said it was fine to do each other favours but she didn't want me to pay other people to do my horse. If I wanted to pay someone I had to pay her. I thought that was probably fair enough really. Banning favours seems a little bit mean. I know there is no money in livery but if you get someone else to bring in every night for you because you turn out every morning paying the extra £2 a day, every day does add up. Especially if you budget to be on DIY because you are running on a shoestring! It's obviously YO's decision but I'd have thought it would need a notice period to bring it in?
 
To be honest i generally dont ask people to help me but i often help my friend who can work funny hours.

I am staying out of it but i will let them know i wont be changing my ways and anything on my bill i dont agree with will not be paid.

I understand they need to make ends meat but I cant afford to be adding twenty odd quid to my bill a month!
 
Personally I'd nod and smile then part loan/share with someone else and tell her that your insurance covers you.

Liz g. As far as I'm aware, if not for monetary purposes and if the client had requested a friend turn her horse out... My public liability would have covered any injury or the horse owners insurance or the friends horse insurance.
 
Starzaan said:
My insurance covers my employees bringing horses in, turning out etc. but it wouldn't cover people bringing friends horses in for them. Luckily I don't have this problem as I don't offer DIY livery, but I can understand the YO not wanting to be faced with an accident not covered by insurance.

I also understand the YO wanting to stop favours and make a little extra money - there's very little money in this yard lark! People seem to think that every penny they give me goes straight to me, this is not the case. I have huge outgoings on rent, insurance, feed, bedding, hay and haylage, electricity and maintenance. If I offered DIY I would seriously consider going down the same route to be honest. A very large and popular yard nearby which does offer DIY has the same rule, and it works very well.
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Starzan I have no problem with rules and understand ym's and yo's need to earn a living and deserve too- but to bring a rule in with immediate affect is unfair as i mentioned it would depend on the price, if i was happy to stay but as I have 3 horses now and a 4th on the way... so for me to suddenly have to find and extra say £32 - based on £2 for to and bring in and a rug change each - a weekend for to and catch in is a bit of a jump for me.... my friend and I work together, I turn hers out and bring in every day in the week and she does mine if I am unable too due to work commitments - ok its not every weekend - but again for my friend it would be a huge hike for her in the week.
 
Fair enough if the yo has stated that prior to people moving on because its a source of revenue, however suddenly deciding it is unfair. But, at the end of the day, their yard, their rules, so except moving yards or accepting new rule I imagine there's little else you can do.
 
Plus meant to say its not an insurance issue anyway. Anyone handling my horses with my permission is covered by my insurance.
 
Hello All!!

It's very sad to think how times are changing, both in terms of people fearing being sued and people desperately needing to make money.

I used to manage a livery yard of 10 stables about 10 years ago. We offered DIY, PT and FT livery. DIY's were also able to pay a small amount if they needed me to give them a hand (example turning out or bringing in).

I wasn't opposed to them helping each other out so long as they didn't pay their fellow stable mates for that help. At the end of the day I don't they there would have been any gain for me if I had forced them to use me, instead, I thought of ways which I could get more money out of them that was beneficial to them.

6 out of the 10 were students. I offered 1/2 price turnout, feed and muck out on a Thursday morning (union night on Wednesdays) so that they could sleep off their hangover! They loved it! And, that made me much more money than turning each one of their horses out/bringing in a couple of nights a week!

I'm not sure how the insurance would be affected however, most yards specify that all horses have insurance, and therefore, so long as the handler has been given permission to handle the horse that horses insurance should cover for any eventualities!!
 
Those of you under the misconception that if a horse is covered under the owner's policy it negates the liabilities of the YO/landowner are in for a nasty surprise when something occurs that is not deemed to be the "fault" of the horse.
 
Rowreach said:
Those of you under the misconception that if a horse is covered under the owner's policy it negates the liabilities of the YO/landowner are in for a nasty surprise when something occurs that is not deemed to be the "fault" of the horse.
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Arn't I covered under my BHS Gold insurance for any horse I handle ?
 
I was at a yard where we could help each other. Then we were told we had to use the services offered, but the turnout times were changed. The horses couldn't go out before 9 and had to be in by 2.30. Obviously anyone who had a standard 9-5 job and most shift workers couldn't do these hours, therefore adding approx £4 a day on to their bill.
It didn't last long and it was agreed that we could help each other again as long as no money changed hands.
As others have said, it's the YO right to make money, but a notice period should be given and maybe 'packages' to make the costs more affordable.
 
I used to be on a yard like this: no favours for friends and we had to buy the bedding from them etc. which I thought was fair enough. sadly the girls running the yard were utter planks, I wouldn't trust them to look after a bucket let alone deal with my horses (i had 4 there) and whenever I ordered hay/bedding off them it frequently wouldn't turn up leaving me with nothing for my horses (due to no storage space I couldn't stash any away). I didn't last long there, the final straw was when a few horses had ringworm and nobody was told...... No wonder the place was a bit empty last time I was there :rolleyes:
 
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Rowreach. That's where public liability would come in which any yo should have anyway surely? Otherwise I'd like to know what the extortionate amount I was paying was for!
 
I was at a yard who introduced this rule so DIYs couldn't help each other out and had to pay for the staff to do any jobs even holding for farrier, putting feeds in etc.
The rule then became if you were on holiday and needed your horse on part livery rather than just the odd day assisted you had to put your horse on part livery for the whole calendar month not just the week you were away. Obviously this caused most of the DIYs to leave and their stables were then filled with Part or Full liveries. A strategic plan to get rid of DIYs..... probably but either way a good increase of income for the yard.
I was also at another yard (part livery) which wouldn't allow owners to bring their own horses in/out as they weren't covered by insurance so you had to ask a member of staff to do it even though all horses were all privately insured.
 
LynH said:
I was at a yard who introduced this rule so DIYs couldn't help each other out and had to pay for the staff to do any jobs even holding for farrier, putting feeds in etc.
The rule then became if you were on holiday and needed your horse on part livery rather than just the odd day assisted you had to put your horse on part livery for the whole calendar month not just the week you were away. Obviously this caused most of the DIYs to leave and their stables were then filled with Part or Full liveries. A strategic plan to get rid of DIYs..... probably but either way a good increase of income for the yard.
I was also at another yard (part livery) which wouldn't allow owners to bring their own horses in/out as they weren't covered by insurance so you had to ask a member of staff to do it even though all horses were all privately insured.
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Now that seriously doesnt make any sense :mad:
 
If I were this YO, I would simply put up my weekly/monthly charges, then the burden would be shared by all and there would be no arguing about who does what and how it's done.
 
There was a case a few years ago when a girl was killed when collecting her own pony from a field. The livery yard had to pay compensation.

This *might* be something to do with it, although surely that would also mean that you weren't allowed to fetch your own horse (I'm not the world's biggest legal brain).
 
I'd be inclined to check with your insurance company and get your friends to do the same as to how they are covered.

Maybe you can get a 'named handler' on the insurance policy in much the same way as you do with car insurance. Then you can politely tell the YO that your horse and friend are covered by your own insurance and that she need have no worry.

I'm sure she's not insured for you bringing in your own horse so why should it be a problem.

I can side with the YO who wants bits on horses being brought in especially if there has been a few badly behaved horses. Theycan get a tad silly at time with the cold weather and the extra feed inside them.
 
Money making scheme IMO I'd be off if they enforced it.

My parents sometimes have to get mine in if I can't make it up would be very inconvenient if they couldn't do this and am I Hell paying for anyone else to do it
 
One thing to bear in mind is it can be difficult to plan and staff if one day you have extra 12 horses to turn out and 5 extra on full the next day no extras. So I do know of yards that insist on no services at all for DIYs; others that it all goes through the yard, to try and keep the workload consistent day to day.

However if yards are going to insist on services being done by the yard then it should be reasonably priced, even on the cheap side and the people doing it should be reliable and competent.
 
This was introduced at a yard I was on, but they were honest about the reasons - they needed to make more money from the business.

No problem. The charges were more than reasonable. And my horses were always dealt with professionaly and kindly.
 
I cannot see this being an insurance issue tbh! Does this mean that if you say another livery can ride your horse they have to pay the daughter to bring it in? Public liabilty insurance would cover anyone handling your horse as long as they are not employed by you (ie yo and daughter) but even without that, it would be between you and the third party not the yard if anything happened. For the yard to be liable for an incident it would have to be shown that they were negligent , so if your friend brought your horse in and horse kicked them in the head they would sue you, if the horse fell on top of them because there was a hole in the yard that caused it then they would sue YO. Sorry, money making scheme! I understand that YO needs an income but they should do it openly and up their prices rather than this 'stealth' increase!
 
I love my yard but we have never been allowed to help each other out with horses, even on Xmas day! This, along with not being allowed to use our own instructor, is the only thing wrong with an otherwise perfect yard. I had to compromise, but if its something that is really important to you then move as the YO's decision must surely be final.
 
I think either a yard is DIY or it's not. Only the staff being allowed to turn out/catch in would cost me £140 more a month. I just couldn't afford it. My mate turns mine out, I catch his in and we do mucking out, rugs, feeds, haynets as needed. My yard wouldn't cope if we all asked for services one day!
 
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