Not as advertised

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Vanessa66

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Two months ago, I bought my supposed 'dream horse' and now I'm seeking advice on how to return him and get my money back. If anyone had been through the same experience, I wonder if you can advise. He's a 17.1 Holstein x ISH 10 yr old. He was described as the perfect hunter/allrounder and that nothing 'fazes' him, suitable for experienced or more novice rider. I was told he wasn't brilliant on his own, but fine with a bit of leg/stick.

In reality, he is nappy in company too and can put in a good rear and spin if challenged. He's like that in an SJ ring or on a hack. He is also very spooky and will stop dead in canter if in the front. His previous owner told me he'd been used as a hireling, which I find hard to believe. I've had professional help with him and he does the same with every rider.

Initially his previous said they'd take him back. Now she's not replying to my texts.

I should've sent him back earlier but my daughter developed an illness and this has taken up so much of my time, as I nurse her. It's just now, getting on him after a few weeks off and an eventer lady riding him, that I realise how very different he is to how he was advertised.

I'm experienced and confident, but I didn't want something with vices.

Have I left it too long or do I have a leg to stand on? I'll go to court if I have to.

All advice gratefully received.
 
What was he like when you rode him prior to purchase ? How many times did you see him and was he ok jumping and hacking then ? Has he changed since you bought him and what did the vet think of him for you at the vetting ?
 
Did you buy him from a dealer? You could possibly get a swap.
Private sale, I'd guess you'd be better selling on as it does sound that being told he'd need a bit of stick to ride on his own that he was nappy? I would take from that. Is he perfect every other way as described? I don't think they legally have to take him back.
Worth a try though if they did say they would take him back, call round for a chat. Good luck.
 
dogatemysalad said:
What was he like when you rode him prior to purchase ? How many times did you see him and was he ok jumping and hacking then ? Has he changed since you bought him and what did the vet think of him for you at the vetting ?
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I tried him once. His owner took him by lorry to an arena as she said she had poor facilities.

He was good in the school, although spooked at the mirror. He was fine to hack, although again a little spooky, but nothing major.

He passed the vet with flying colours and she said he was good to handle, which he is.

His previous said he has only ever done all the things I'm describing on his own and not on company. I've had his back and teeth looked at.

His previous has told me a few contradicting stories, so I'm not sure if I trust what she's said.
 
If the seller is a private seller, surely you are down to the goodwill of the seller here? You say she has stopped replying to your texts - have you phoned her to take her up on the offer of taking him back?

Much like buying a car privately, it is surely caveat emptor unless deliberately misdescribed (hard to prove with a living animal).

Persevere with the seller to take her up on her offer to have him back, but don't be too surprised if you are stuck with him. A court case without very solid proof that the horse was deliberately mis described to increase its value / sell an otherwise unsellable animal is not always going to go as you hope it will.
 
No. Was told he was perfect jumping, when in fact he naps in the ring.

I was told (in an email I still have) that he's perfectly well behaved in company, when in fact he naps.

I was also told he has no vices, when in fact he's nappy and rears.
 
can you prove - to the standards required by a court - that the horse is mis described

if not, don't waste your time / money with the court route

your best option is to try to get the seller to take him back as she already offered to do

given that she offered, threatening with court at this stage is unlikely to be the best way of doing that imo
 
She has horses to sell, but reckons she had my boy at livery and exercised him for his previous owner (who only rode when hunted him)for 2 years, then bought him when they gave up. Only his breeder is on his passport.
 
I've got a copy of his ad and can list the ways in which he does not match that description. Also subsequent emails/texts.

I agree re legal action. I hope she takes him back.

I wanted a forever horse and while I can accept a few quirks, I don't want a nappy, spooky rearer.
 
I'm not offended at all and it's something I've considered, hence I've got a pro rider to hack him for me. He does it with her too.
 
OK, so the seller is a dealer, that puts things more in your favour. She is expected to have more expertise than you and the onus is more on her to be accurate and complete with the description etc.

You should certainly be phoning or visiting to encourage her to make good on her offer to have him back.

Mentioning it prematurely is not the best option but, if circumstances require it, you might mention that you are considering checking with the appropriate authorities (hmrc, trading standards etc.) that she is running a business. Not that she should mind of course, as you are sure she is fully registered and compliant with every aspect of such a business and has no issue with them coming poking their nose into her affairs.
 
I'm sorry but IMO there's no such thing as a "perfect horse" and the previous owner may well have ridden him differently and experienced a different horse.

If this horse is proving problematic for you then you need to have a long hard think about whether he's a "good horse" and you're going to consistently work through current problems with the SAME trainer - rather than just flinging different people on him - OR whether you're going to get rid and search for Pegasus!

If you're having basic problems in canter I can't for the life of me imagine why you're trying to jump a round!
 
WindyStacks said:
I'm sorry but IMO there's no such thing as a "perfect horse" and the previous owner may well have ridden him differently and experienced a different horse.
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Maybe not, but there are plenty that genuinely are as advertised. The OP was looking for a specific sort of horse, and has ended up, through no fault of her own, with a horse with behavioural problems. Why should she be shouted at for not wanting to have to sort out a problem that she didn't create?
 
There's always someone who has to be rude, isn't there!

My problem isn't that I'm in search of the holy grail and I've deliberately not used the expression 'perfect horse'. My problem is that this horse is not as described and potentially dangerous, which I see as a fundamental difference.

Also, being a lead horse in canter on a hack is also very different to schooling and jumping him in an arena.

I'm not "flinging" different people on him. I've experienced a problem and hence have sought professional advice.

I'm genuinely asking for constructive and I appreciate thought from other people - and am open to critique. Please keep your thoughts to yourself if you are just going to be rude.
 
I don't think this horse suits you, the ownership shuould have been clear and the passport should be up to date.
Ask for your money back as horse is not as sold, the dealer saw you ride and was able to assess your suitblility.
Use emails or recorddr delivery letters for formal stuff, emails otherwise, not texts, but make it clear you dont want the horse and want your money back.
There needs to be a date from which you will transfer expenses to the dealer.
Try Trading Standards.
Selling on behalf of someone looks like a method of getting out of legalities.
Ask for the name addrs and contact details of the owner.. see what happens.
Make it clear that as a novice purcaser you took what was said as correct, and never met anyone else or paid money to anyone else.
Being an innocent swimming with sharks is greatly in your favour.

When you answered the advert any important information should have been made clear, it is no use coming up with excuses after the dealer has your money.
Reputable dealers want to make money but also need happy customers.
 
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JPJPJP said:
If the seller is a private seller, surely you are down to the goodwill of the seller here? You say she has stopped replying to your texts - have you phoned her to take her up on the offer of taking him back?

Much like buying a car privately, it is surely caveat emptor unless deliberately misdescribed (hard to prove with a living animal).

Persevere with the seller to take her up on her offer to have him back, but don't be too surprised if you are stuck with him. A court case without very solid proof that the horse was deliberately mis described to increase its value / sell an otherwise unsellable animal is not always going to go as you hope it will.
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We have had it confirmed on another thread recently by a lawyer that the mis description does not have to be deliberate. The owner can quite innocently mis describe the horse, for example as never napping because it never does with her, but if someone else has seen or ridden it napping, then it is mis described, and legally you can get your money back. Whether that's practical out not is another thing entirely.
 
Thanks everyone. For info, this is what I said I wanted in a horse:

I am experienced (been riding for 40 years, since v small) although my old horse's injury prevented me from any jumping. I
am after a safe, sane experienced all-rounder who can do a bit of
everything. Must be sound and vice free, good in front and behind, and
never silly. Must have a confidence giving jump so I can get back into
it.
 
Vanessa66 said:
No. Was told he was perfect jumping, when in fact he naps in the ring.

I was told (in an email I still have) that he's perfectly well behaved in company, when in fact he naps.

I was also told he has no vices, when in fact he's nappy and rears.
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Hmm... you have to read into how she said things though. Like you said she said he was "perfect jumping" in which case he might be very good to jump ONCE you get him to the fence! I wouldnt say a good jumper can be assumed to be straight forward in the ring, I know several amazing jumping horses on the circuit who seem to be absolute brats in between the fences! He might have been good in company if he was following another horse rather than going in front? And I wouldn't say a "vice" is napping and rearing. A "vice" to me in an advert is referring to if the horse has stable vices like windsucking, weaving etc. Its a difficult one as the owner sounds like she could have been careful with how she worded things which would therefore make it difficult to prove she lied in court.

Also 2 months on is a pretty long time for things to go wrong. Id try contacting the seller again and see if they'd take it back. If not, is there anything this horse does do well? Ok, its not great to hack and naps jumping but how about dressage? Could you sell it for that instead? It could have another purpose.
 
OP says vendor said horse was a hireling; it will have been worked hard in that case and used to following, being part of a herd. Have seen many hunters that can can be g*ts on their own, especially when not fit, but are angels in the field. Just a thought...
 
Under common law, if the party honestly believed everything she was saying (hence it was an innocent misrepresentation of the facts rather than a fraudulent or negligent one) then rescission (to unravel the contract and put both parties in the same position had the contract not taken place - ie. return horse to owner, money to buyer) is difficult to apply. There's also been a lapse in time from when the buyer would reasonably be expected to discover the issue and make others aware of it.

Also as horses are a living, breathing sentinent it can be hard to determine whether the horse would be returned in exactly the same way as when it was sold. Riders can alter mindsets of horses, so it's a bit like buying a shop, altering it by adding new fixtures and then complaining it wasn't as sold.

But this is all approached from my veeery limited understanding of contract law, in your position OP I would visit a solicitor. I've been in your position and it's not the most pleasant, but I cut my losses and sold on. It's very much 'buyer beware.'
 
I think the most realistic way to move forwards is to have a competent pro rider continue to ride the horse and advertise it for sale. It needs the right rider and the right home.
 
dogatemysalad said:
I think the most realistic way to move forwards is to have a competent pro rider continue to ride the horse and advertise it for sale. It needs the right rider and the right home.
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I do too. Horse is probably just fine with the right person. It's just a mismatch OP, it happens; sell horse and find something that's more suited to you.
 
I don t agree.
The OP bought horse in good faith and no offer of return has been made. This makes me very suspicious.
No doubt the horse will be OK with the right person ............ perhaps a professional who can ride any mad, bad, and nappy beggar, but such people don t buy such horses, they don t need to.
 
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couldnt you look further than being disappointed by the horse and think positively which sometimes gets passed on to the horse and things improve, he is still settling in ofcourse give him a chance, some take months to see in, i do feel he is also not getting confident vibes from you so he is actually scared, hence the napping, it isnt naughtiness its lack of confidence. wish you were closer i would offer to ride him for you. do try not all sales are funnies sometimes you just have to persevere and find the right button to push. did you see him being ridden, did you ride him and if he was behaved well that is how he is you just have to give him a chance to settle in.

otherwise just sell on through a dealer, pro yard.
 
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