Not been turned out for 4 weeks...

Michen said:
But what about on the continent where turn out really just isn’t a thing in the same way as we do it here?

I think we get it wrong because we don’t turn out but then don’t make sure the horses are getting adequate exercise with it.
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It’s funny that even Carl Hester’s horses get daily turnout, some are out 24/7 ?
 
Flicker said:
Agree that livery yards should be regulated.
I feel it is just as much a welfare issue if horses are stood out starving on fields that are completely given over to mud.
All weather turn out is great. We have this on my yard, with precedence given to horses who can’t necessarily be exercised. We also have a walker, an indoor and two outdoor schools. Our horses are not stood in for long periods - they are kept active and entertained. In my view, this is better for them (for the few weeks of the year that this weather is causing issues) than putting them out in the cold and wet on a field with no grass.
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We feed hay outside when the grass is gone ?
 
AdorableAlice said:
This year is the first in 42 winters I’ve had mine in. Obviously different parts of the uk have different soil structures and drainage but there will be many yards with unusable land. Owners need to realise decisions have to be made taking into account ground management and horse safety . if it ever stops raining and starts to dry out it will be vital to keep land closed. Horses will do more damage to drying land and new grass emerging than they will do out on a bog. Be patient and understand this has been and remains the wettest winter on record. Be thankful that the properly looked after ground in March and April will provide grazing throughout the year and into next winter.
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Me too this is the first year I have kept my working horses in from January the field was terrible and their skin was becoming problematic as they are both grey and hunting the shoes where being lost constantly .
They where very happy they did not want to go out tbh and spent most of the time trying to get you to bring them in.
I upped the work loaded to the hills and forest for variety got the younger one doing clinics and gave him two pieces of work most days , I also have brought Fatty back i to light work he was miserable he hates mud so the vet injected his damaged stifle and off we went five weeks of leading from another horse walking and then riding him he may only ever walk but he’s having a whale of a time .
we have turnout now in the emergency paddock if it gets wet I will have stop again .
I am rationing it .
If I go onto the summer fields too early it will effect the whole summer .
the sacrifice field is going to have to be direct drilled its so bad that’s going to cost a lot .
Yards need to be making plans on how they will cope will cope going forward with hard standings turnout pens putting in horse walkers that sort of thing .
I am going to fence my school in for a start in its open at one end .
I am still debating the investment in a large enough hard standing for three naughty ID’s.
 
Flicker said:
Agree that livery yards should be regulated.
I feel it is just as much a welfare issue if horses are stood out starving on fields that are completely given over to mud.
All weather turn out is great. We have this on my yard, with precedence given to horses who can’t necessarily be exercised. We also have a walker, an indoor and two outdoor schools. Our horses are not stood in for long periods - they are kept active and entertained. In my view, this is better for them (for the few weeks of the year that this weather is causing issues) than putting them out in the cold and wet on a field with no grass.
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the problem with regulation of livery yards is it will cause a welfare melt down as yards would close in large numbers .
I was involved years ago with trying to set a frame work for deciding how regulation would work it was clear even then any meaning full regulation would close yards and raise costs .
 
I used to keep my horse in London with no turn out at all, but he was hacked out on mostly the roads for several hours each day. This is why it is so important to buy a horse that is 100% in traffic etc. as you can then always hack it out if nothing else is available.
 
emiliaa said:
Hi I recently moved livery yards and the weather has been really awful to the point where the horses haven’t been turned out for 4 weeks...the fields aren’t flooded but are incredibly wet and I am finding my horse difficult to ride due to this as he’s a lot more fresh and spooky etc. I’m really upset that he hasn’t been getting turned out as the fields are fine but now it’s been left so long if the horses get turned out on grass that’s more slippery than normal then that along with their freshness will cause some major injuries. Has anyone got any advice for this situation as there hasn’t been a mention of turnout whatsoever and it’s really stressing me out knowing my boy has been stuck in his stable for 4 weeks ?
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Sorry I could not be in a yard which does not allow turnout because of the fields. The fields can recover,why should the horses suffer. MY yard they turned out every day except Xmas day, yes my fields are wet but hey!! horses sanity comes first, my fields will recover, and we have happy horses.

We have only 8 acres but 11 horses 4 are ponies, fields managed two fields resting for when this rain stops, but they are out 7.15 am - 4pm
 
Goldenstar said:
the problem with regulation of livery yards is it will cause a welfare melt down as yards would close in large numbers .
I was involved years ago with trying to set a frame work for deciding how regulation would work it was clear even then any meaning full regulation would close yards and raise costs .
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So you’re happy for horses welfare to be comprised then just to keep yards open??
 
Michen said:
But what about on the continent where turn out really just isn’t a thing in the same way as we do it here?

I think we get it wrong because we don’t turn out but then don’t make sure the horses are getting adequate exercise with it.
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I used to be on a German yard with my daughter’s pony. They closed off the fields in the winter but most of the horses had small pens attached to their stables - ours had a concrete pen. He would spend most of his time outside in the sunshine/rain but had the option of being inside his stable. Those that didn’t have the pens had the use of a sand paddock to burn off energy. Plus there was a horse walker.

I’m very fortunate that at my DIY yard in the UK now we are still allowed all day turn out.
 
chocolategirl said:
So you’re happy for horses welfare to be comprised then just to keep yards open??
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The horses' welfare will only be compromised if the owners do not look after them properly, which would mean working them more to provide adequate exercise. I am aware that a lot of people use turnout to provide the exercise, but if you want to keep horses in an increasingly wet climate (and I do not want to, which is why I will not be keeping horses after this coming summer, despite having all-weather turnout, working them daily and plenty of land), then you will have to change the way you keep horses, and work them adequately.
 
Michen said:
But what about on the continent where turn out really just isn’t a thing in the same way as we do it here?

I think we get it wrong because we don’t turn out but then don’t make sure the horses are getting adequate exercise with it.
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It is not my experience of keeping horses in Poland, Hungary and Russia that horses are not turned out. Mine go out all winter dawn to dusk, in summer 6am to 6pm unless I opt to leave them out 24 hours. At our stable all horses have to go out for minimum 4-5 hours a day and the owner does not allow horses on the yard unless they go out (of course essential box rest excepted).

The entrance to my paddock does resemble a swamp, but it will dry, and once out they can opt to stand in the less muddy areas. I really could not keep horses without the option to turn out. When I have a horse on box rest I find it a massive commitment in terms of time. Sure if the weather is truly horrendous I will ask for them to come inside earlier, but I have not had them inside all day for anything other than box rest in many years.
 
chocolategirl said:
So you’re happy for horses welfare to be comprised then just to keep yards open??
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Since you ask me no I am not happy I think there too many horses being kept for too little money and that compromises welfare But the market does not appear to there for what good livery will cost .
I think many many owners simply never exercise their horses enough leading to all sorts of issues .
To be clear if I had to keep a horse in some of the places I read about on here I simply would not have one .
It’s completely unacceptable that on some DIY yards horses are being stabled all winter with no exercise but that is the owners choice you simply can’t go to a no turnout yard with a horse out of work it’s an unacceptable choice by the owner , btw I am not referring to OP when I say that .

We do need to face up to the issues that restriction of available grazing and climate change will bring .
Yard owners who can face keeping going need to develop facilities for wetter winters and owners need to be prepared to pay for those facilities .
 
chocolategirl said:
It isn’t fair at all! It makes me so angry that’s this seems to have become the norm up and down the country? imprisoning horses for days and weeks on end is a welfare issue, and for the life of me I can’t understand those who claim to be animal lovers, thinking this is acceptable? I’ve run my livery for 25 years, and I can honestly say our horses have NEVER spent a day in their stable unless on veterinary advice, even then, we have a small turnout pen we use. I’m sorry for your situation OP, it’s a big part of the reason there are so many badly behaved horses in the world, and my only advice is to move ASAP. This winter has been exceptionally wet yes, but trust me, if they’re keeping in now, they’ll do this every winter ?
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Where are you and can i move my horses to your yard please :O!!!!
 
chocolategirl said:
It’s funny that even Carl Hester’s horses get daily turnout, some are out 24/7 ?
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They would not if his yard was in Worcestershire, Yorkshire or Shropshire at the moment.

We all want top facilities for our horses but at times it is not possible to turn them out if conditions are not appropriate or safe. There are so many threads on the forum vilifying yard owners for not providing wonderful grazing through the worst winter on record. Have owners not noticed the biblical amount of rain that has fallen consistently since October 2019 ? . Owners will soon be noticing the cost of hard feed for their horses and food for their own tables will be rocketing because little to no planting was done in the Autumn.

Forage costs will go up in some areas because the housed cattle won't be going out anytime soon and will be consuming far more forage, leaving less for the equine world to buy.

There is a far bigger picture to be seen in some parts of the UK than just the blinkered view of my pony can't go out and my yard owner isn't giving me what I pay for. Of course the pony can be moved - choose which swamp you want to dump it in in Worcestershire and hope your vet can prevent its legs rotting.

I would support the licensing of livery yards. A licence would easily be achieved for a yard with limited winter turnout and acceptable opportunity for exercising, a school with lighting for instance, sandpit/woodchip areas with good stabling, good enrichment opportunities and high safety levels. A licence for a yard with no facilities, poor stabling and acres of low bog like grazing would not.

Lets hope we never see another winter like this one, lets hope the poor people whose homes have been destroyed don't experience the same again. Lets hope planners are stopped building on flood plains. In reality we won't see any changes, it will happen again and new housing estates will soon be built on every corner of our green and pleasant land where we keep our horses now. The keeping of horses is changing rapidly and turn out will keep disappearing.
 
Winters100 said:
It is not my experience of keeping horses in Poland, Hungary and Russia that horses are not turned out. Mine go out all winter dawn to dusk, in summer 6am to 6pm unless I opt to leave them out 24 hours. At our stable all horses have to go out for minimum 4-5 hours a day and the owner does not allow horses on the yard unless they go out (of course essential box rest excepted).

The entrance to my paddock does resemble a swamp, but it will dry, and once out they can opt to stand in the less muddy areas. I really could not keep horses without the option to turn out. When I have a horse on box rest I find it a massive commitment in terms of time. Sure if the weather is truly horrendous I will ask for them to come inside earlier, but I have not had them inside all day for anything other than box rest in many years.
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Northern Europe and Russua are obviously different from what Michen is talking about.

No turnout for ridden horses is common in Switzerland, France, Germany Portugal and Spain. I don't know about Italy but I believe that is the same.

.
 
One thing that I do agree with is that the responsibility lies with the owners. And I don't really think that licencing yards would help - after all a yard with good facilities but limited turnout might be OK for an owner who was working the horse twice a day but completely inadequate for other owners. In the final analysis it is a choice how we keep our horses.
 
There was a yard near me which kept horses in when it was wet for weeks on end, cost a fortune in hay and had very over excitable horses. Yard manage said they are not risking horses falling over and break their legs, just because one did years back. There should be a clause in the contract which said sign here if you want your horse out when wet and accept there is as risks. Owners choice
 
can they split the fields into very small currals to start so it’s not so exciting and maybe strip graze/ gradually open so it’s not such a huge transition. When you turn out maybe put hay out to keep him busy rather than galloping. I find riding tricky with school too so maybe you could lunge him As well/ get someone to do this. Do you have an arena he can be turned out into?
 
Maybe horse owners who wish to turn out every day whatever the weather will have to reconcile themselves that they will have to pay for this facility. Farmland is currently averaging £10000 per acre nationwide and you would need several acres if you turned out all winter this year. Many turnout paddocks will need major reseeding, harrowing, rolling and managing and that cost money - a lot of money. Thye will also need a whole season (yes all summer!) to recover or else you will just be dmagin the roots of the newly seeded grass.

Frankly the average DIY of £25 - £40/week does not even begin to cover the costs let alone provide a reasonable profit for the yard owner. Yards will close and prices will rise. Just saying!

PS I am not a livery yard owner but a horse owner who is lucky enough to own and manage their own grazing. My horses are not turned out in the winter but I do have plenty of all weather facilities to exercise and look after them
 
sport horse said:
Maybe horse owners who wish to turn out every day whatever the weather will have to reconcile themselves that they will have to pay for this facility. Farmland is currently averaging £10000 per acre nationwide and you would need several acres if you turned out all winter this year. Many turnout paddocks will need major reseeding, harrowing, rolling and managing and that cost money - a lot of money. Thye will also need a whole season (yes all summer!) to recover or else you will just be dmagin the roots of the newly seeded grass.

Frankly the average DIY of £25 - £40/week does not even begin to cover the costs let alone provide a reasonable profit for the yard owner. Yards will close and prices will rise. Just saying!

PS I am not a livery yard owner but a horse owner who is lucky enough to own and manage their own grazing. My horses are not turned out in the winter but I do have plenty of all weather facilities to exercise and look after them
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We've kept in for about 4 days this winter. The fields are starting to recover already. They won't need seeding but will need harrowing and rolling as they do every year. The YO makes more money from the DIY liveries on the land than he does from the sheep he also keeps.

So while there is all this doom and gloom about how awful it is for yard owners, it is definitely not like that for everyone. Mine is doing ok and perfectly happy and about to redo the school surface for us.
 
sport horse said:
Frankly the average DIY of £25 - £40/week does not even begin to cover the costs let alone provide a reasonable profit for the yard owner. Yards will close and prices will rise. Just saying!
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I also don't get the pricing of UK livery. Where I am land costs a fraction of UK prices, as do staff. Hay is only a bit more expensive. But interestingly livery charges appear to me to be about 25% higher, and you would find no DIY for 25 pounds a week unless it was an unfenced plot in a remote area.
 
chocolategirl said:
Unfortunately a very long way from Cornwall!☹️ Cheshire to be precise ?
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I can commute... ;). You sound like a fantastic livery yard owner!!! My guys have been in solidly for a week and on restricted turnout since October. 3 large horses in 12x12 stables, 2 are ridden and one is a 2yo. It's driving me mad not being able to get him out in the field. I've been asking about for livery and no one has space! It's a nightmare! Livery yard in Helston, could be a lucrative idea for you??? ;p
 
We have lots of land but it is wet clay and terrible in winter. You’d be seriously risking your horse if you kept them out. Either serious mud rash or else tendon issues. It’s just not worth it. So we’ve had to find a compromise. We’ve had a road planings hard standing for about a decade now. The horses go out 8 hours a day on there with hay. This year we’ve extended it to a circular track with a grassy area for rolling and hay stations dotted around. (It’s not massive, but big enough for five or six horses. At the minute it’s split into sections because we have new horses and I want introductions to be on grass. But everything is still out all day. The horses go out in the winter field every four days. It seems to work well and keep the horses much happier than when they were stood in.
 
SpottyTB said:
I can commute... ;). You sound like a fantastic livery yard owner!!! My guys have been in solidly for a week and on restricted turnout since October. 3 large horses in 12x12 stables, 2 are ridden and one is a 2yo. It's driving me mad not being able to get him out in the field. I've been asking about for livery and no one has space! It's a nightmare! Livery yard in Helston, could be a lucrative idea for you??? ;p
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?? I try to be! I treat the livery clients the same as myself, as in no preferential treatment. I know that’s hard to believe isn’t it?!?‍♀️ I refuse to keep mine in which is why I believe I have always have really well behaved horses, so therefore, I don’t expect my clients to keep theirs in. It’s worked very well for 25 years, so my motto is if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it! It’s been a learning curve, I’m not going to lie, and some clients can be very demanding, but I’m firm and fair which most seem to appreciate ? there’s a glut of yards in my area meaning sometimes, and quite unbelievably, I struggle to fill stables ? fortunately, they don’t come up very often ?
 
bouncing_ball said:
Carl does think daily turnout important but he’s on a clay flood plain, he doesn’t turnout through the worst winter months when ground too wet. I asked at one of the tours / open days.
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I’ve been to his yard twice so I know it gets very wet in winter, but I guarantee his horses will not be standing in their boxes for 23 hours per day ? I’ve heard him say on more than one occasion that the best way to keep horses sound and healthy, is to keep them moving!
 
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