Not foal watch.........

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Alec Swan

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........ but puppy watch!!

The Cocker bitch Gipsy is 63 days today. She's a bit subdued, but otherwise seems fine. She hasn't eaten up tonight, and is unusually clingy. She's kennelled at the yard, so it's going to be an every hour or so trip to see her (it's walking distance!)

She's 5 years old, and is a maiden, she's made no bag what so ever, though since week 5 her teats have been extended but floppy.

She's scanned with 4 pups, and scanned again with 3, so we'll see what happens.

It's going to be a sofa'd existence, for a while!! Bloody dog, I wish that she'd get on with it. I'm like an expectant father, pacing about!! :D

Alec.
 
Hope you got some sleep Alec, and if she didn't whelp last night she has the decency to get on with it at a civilised hour today. I agree pics are obligatory.
Not getting at you because I know she is not your bitch, but I have always felt 5 to be a little old for a maiden, would you normally leave it this late with one of yours?
 
MurphysMinder said:
.......

I have always felt 5 to be a little old for a maiden, would you normally leave it this late with one of yours?
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I agree with you, and no I wouldn't leave it this long. She is an exceptionally well bred bitch, but even so....... :o

She did eat up during the night and when I let her out at 0500, she bounced about like the busy little thing that she is. Perhaps I'll take her out and shoot a few rabbits over her, to see if that'll get things going!! (Joke, before I'm shot at myself)!

Alec.
 
MurphysMinder said:
...... Anything happening yet with her?
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No, nothing. Is she stressing? It's difficult to tell. She's chewed the inside of the kennel, a little. She's been scratching up the floor. She's a naturally hyperactive creature anyway, and now she seems to be going through mood swings.

She has a very fast respiratory rate, but then she's been like that for a week. I'm tempted to bring her home, and let her give birth indoors, but with a strange environment, that would probably only make matters worse.

I just wish that she'd bloody well get on with it! Tonight? I doubt it. We'll see.

Alec.
 
Have you been taking her temperature? I always find that to be a very reliable indicator :)

Good luck, fingers crossed for a safe "foaling" :D

ETA: I would always have them whelp in the house, but it would be a bit stressful for her at this late stage if she is not used to it so I guess you'll just have to move out to wherever she is :D
 
6 puppies born, 5 alive. To recap, the bitch is a maiden 5 yo. She hasn't had evidence of a bag worth speaking of. Her teats are HUGE. I've taken her to the vet's, and they've dished me out with milk powder and bottles.

I gave the bitch a quarter Ml of Oxytocin, and whilst she doesn't seem to be making much milk, the pups don't seem to want the artificial really, and when I insist that she lies down, which she'll do whilst I'm there, then the pups are pressing forward. They're constantly noisy, and don't seem able to settle.

I'm now off to our local feed merchants to find the bitch some puppy food for herself, and into that I may put a little lambs milk powder. There's no doubt that with ruminants, and mares too, feeding them milk powder assists with there own milk production. Don't know if it works with canines, but we'll see.

I really don't fancy bottle rearing 5 puppies, and if I can stimulate her milk production, so much the better. The puppies clamouring for feed should help. Thankfully she's cleaning up behind them, though I'm a little concerned that whilst she quite likes them, she's hardly as I would expect her to be, and when I open the kennel door, she's always there to follow me out.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be genuinely interested to hear of them!!

Alec.
 
Sorry will have to be brief as at work. My first thought would be could she go back to owners where she would hopefully be more settled? Failing that I think you are going to have to sit in with her and hold pups on to teats , that should help milk production. Hope things improve, noisy pups always concern me.
 
She wont have a bag, the milk often doesnt come in until the pups start feeding. Get the pups on her, that will bring her milk down. You will have to put them on the teats and hold them there until they start to get the hang of it. You certainly dont want to resort to hand feeding unless in an emergency as that is round the clock for about 3 weeks and not always very successful. Make sure the pups are warm (presumably they are on heat mats or have a heat lamp, just make sure they feel warm) and that they dont have any cleft palates or obvious problems causing any feeding issues.

DONT give her the lamb replacement milk, get some goats milk from the supermarket. Make sure mum is well fed, something like chicken/mince and rice is good and comforting. Make sure to get some calcium into mum, we always have a bit of calcium supplement on standby :)

I wouldnt be leaving her with them at all if there are problems, ideally you need someone watching mum and pups 24/7 for the first couple of weeks. Did she pass all the placentas ok? Agree with murphysminder, noisy pups isn't good, it means they're hungry or uncomfortable.
 
As far as new borns go it is cold,so artificial heating is needed at the moment;top the puppies up four hourly using a syringe as I said in PM,bottles can drown a puppy far too easily.Apart from that leave her completely alone and in peace.Visiting a clingy spaniel disturbs the litter,her body warmth is essential ,a baby intercom is handy so you should hear the happy hum of a contented litter.They squeak cos there source of heat and life has left them. Check their bottoms with a cotton wool swab,if the poop is yellow then they are feeding as the muconium has cleared.They should be round by forty eight hours and very shiney.If they are still narrow ,not enough food.
 
MurphysMinder said:
....... My first thought would be could she go back to owners where she would hopefully be more settled? .......

Hope things improve, noisy pups always concern me.
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Strangely the bitch is happier and more settled here, than in her home environment. She's now been here 5 weeks, and has settled and calmed down, immeasurably. She IS a stressy bitch, and can hyperventilate with little excuse, but now by comparison, she's Mrs. Laid-back, (by comparison) !! I rather like her, and when we get through all this, they can leave her here, if they like. ;)

UnaB said:
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DONT give her the lamb replacement milk, .......

.......
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Why? Is it harmful? I've now been out and bought a bag of high protein puppy feed for the bitch, which my vet assures me contains milk powder anyway and with sub-lactating cows and ewes, we find that feeding tiny amounts of milk powder helps, or so we believe! She only has a very small amount, less than half a teaspoon per day, and even if it doesn't help, I can't see how it will do any harm, unless you know different, and I'd be interested to hear.

EAST KENT said:
....... using a syringe as I said in PM,..........
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No PM arrived, but if your post above was a quote , then thanks.

Gipsy is caring for her pups, she does lay with them, and they are continually pushing up to her, all of them. She keeps them clean, and is very fussy (doesn't puppy ***t stick to your fingers?!:D), and with her cleaning process she's re-ingesting excess protein which is being expelled by the pups.

She seems to be far more settled, and seems grateful for human company. The puppies are, or seem to be far more settled, and their constant calling now seems to have settled to a murmur. She still only seems to have milk in her rear boobs, and then precious little.

I have a chair in the kennel, and I use it for feeding from. The pups were a little chilled this morning, but now as they are lying with her, and they are in a bit of a heap, they all seem to be warmer, thankfully, as there is no power supply at the stables, artificial heat isn't available.

The plan is to keep topping up the puppies in the hope that her milk supply will improve, and that she can be self supporting. I hope that it works, as I once reared a litter of Greyhound puppies, on a bottle, and it became seriously tedious.

Thank you everyone, for your help and advice. I'll let you know how we progress!

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
By all means, if only I knew how, and DON'T tell me that it's simple. It isn't, and I don't know how.

I've had an idea. I'll PM you, you give me an e/mail address, I'll send them to you (that I can manage), and YOU post them!! How does that sound? :D

Alec.
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email them to me if you like Alec, we need to see the puppies!
 
I've sent you some pics, but the girl Gipsy looks like a black cat in a coal cellar, so it may have to wait until tomorrow, and the better ones are still in the camera and the batterie's now died and like that and I'm off to the pub.

The puppies now seem well settled, just about quiet, or as EK put it, "A gentle hum"!! They fight against the offer of milk from me, so even though the bitch appears to have nothing, they must be "doing", I suppose. All very strange. Does anyone fancy a pint?

Alec.
 
Here we are, puppies and flash looking new kennels :D

alecpuppy.jpg


alecpuppy2.jpg


aleckennel.jpg


aleckennel2.jpg
 
*Averts eyes*
I am feeling appallingly broody for a working cocker!

ETA: What do you think the chances are of you ending up with her full time Alec?
 
Pendlehog said:
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ETA: What do you think the chances are of you ending up with her full time Alec?
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Nil, sadly.

Over the last few weeks, including this latest episode, Gipsy and I are starting to bond. Very strange, but I think that she KNOWS that I like her, and so she seems to like me more. She's starting to trust me, and I her. I don't want to send her home. All very odd!!

Hey ho, it's only a dog!

Alec.
 
Gorgeous mum, would take a pup in a flash (except for the mad one, aka Zak). Possibly my next dog? :D

Lovely photos.

Why did the owner send her to you and could you at least keep a pup?
 
I notice you say there is no heat available in the kennels. That would worry me as the first thing I do with a whelping bitch is rig up a heat lamp -- and mine whelp in "fox boxes" (i.e. an enclosed box just large enough to whelp in with a sandwich of expanded polystyrene in walls, floor, and ceiling) and even then natural body heat is not enough, but then I'm a long way north of you. Can you not arrange things with a long extension cable?

Shredded newspaper makes a good warm absorbent bed. Be careful of bedding getting damp as that will convey heat away quicker than anything. And of course be careful if using a heat lamp!

Many commercial dog foods are designed to encourage dogs to eat without the dog getting obese. The manufacturers sell more that way! I'd add some lard or fat to the meal, if she will take it. Personally, I feed raw beef tripe, but that is not so easy to get these days.

Seems you have lots of good advice here and obviously know what you are doing, but you did ask for suggestions!
 
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