Not foal watch.........

We lost the smallest bitch puppy last night, so now we're down to 4. She really was tiny, she was born terribly poor, she wouldn't take the bottle, and by this morning, she was gone. Very strange, but when I went to the kennels at 0530, G was standing to greet me with the dead puppy in her mouth, and she gently gave it to me. Very odd.

The remaining puppies seem to be doing really well. They are certainly feeding, G must be making milk, however small her bag, and the puppies aren't recognisable from yesterday morning! They will NOT take artificial milk, preferring to give a drowning impression, so whilst they look as well as they do, I suppose that it's best to leave them alone.

G's owner comes to view our efforts tomorrow, and whilst I don't think that we're out of the woods yet, we certainly seem to have turned a corner. I'll see if I can find some better pics of the pups themselves, later.

Thank you everyone for you support and advice, both were invaluable.

Alec.
 
I do wonder why someone who seems ill prepared for pups has been sent a whelping bitch?? Sounds like the poor one struggled for milk and probably starved and got cold to be honest-that's why they need monitoring and more than a potentially drafty box to whelp in..
 
SusieT said:
I do wonder why someone who seems ill prepared for pups has been sent a whelping bitch?? Sounds like the poor one struggled for milk and probably starved and got cold to be honest-that's why they need monitoring and more than a potentially drafty box to whelp in..
Click to expand...

That's very helpful advice:mad:
Just came on to see if there was any news on remaining pups Alec. Hope they're doing well and more settled now:)
 
Last edited:
Ah, good, they are lovely. I know nothing about dog breeding, but I do know that if one has nothing nice to say, one should really keep ones trap shut! ;)
 
SusieT said:
I do wonder why someone who seems ill prepared for pups has been sent a whelping bitch?? Sounds like the poor one struggled for milk and probably starved and got cold to be honest-that's why they need monitoring and more than a potentially drafty box to whelp in..
Click to expand...

If by ill prepared you mean that there wasn't an on site operating theatre, or a set up IV drip, or masked and gowned nurses at my elbow, with a stand-by oxygen tent, then you may have a point.

These are working bred dogs, for generations they have been kennelled, and after careful research the Neaverson kennels which I bought are as good a commercially made kennel as is available, in my view. Not, I feel sure to your exacting standards, but good enough for mine. I would also point out to you that since man discovered the delights of kennels, countless puppies have been born in them, and they've survived, too.

The bitch has a very restricted milk supply, though all through her pregnancy she had a body score which was at the higher end of satisfactory. As with some others, she is one of those bitches who "did" herself, but not her puppies. Now that they are born, she still seems to have little milk, but the puppies look particularly well, and she's being fed accordingly.

With your apparent approach to the subject, it may have escaped your notice, that there is a very fine line between "Monitoring" and "Interference". The latter, with a stressed bitch, will only make matters worse, and with calm and gentle and "unobtrusive" assistance, she has now settled, the puppies are as warm as toast, and quiet, and she spends the bulk of her time nursing them. Food and their mother's body is what puppies need, not heat lamps, in June!!

Your needlessly aggressive, judgemental and on occasions, rude and arrogant posts do little to recommend you. It may well be that you're one of those people who is unaware of the feelings of others, and though your thoughts and opinions are of neither interest nor concern to me, perhaps if you were to consider others, when you post, your occasional valid point wouldn't be suffocated by your currently oppressive approach.

There we are, that's my attempt to help you, and I would hope that I've been a little more thoughtful than you generally are. ;)

Alec.
 
Are Neaverson still in business Alec? They are certainly the RollsRoyce of kennels,I have a Neaverson puppy house ,and a big single unit one I inherited,great kennels.Actually ,as an aside,mine have the Queen`s plaque on them as "by appointment manufacturers of kennels to Her Majesty". Mine are forty years old now,and still good,sometimes the upper price band pays off. Glad your puppies are thriving,as you say obsevance without stressing the mother is the key,so many excellent breeding bitches have their maternal capabilities spoiled by over zealous owners.
 
Perhaps if you're posts sounded more knowledgeable, rather than believing lamb milk replacer will be of assistance given in 'minute quanitites' and other such then I would have no reason to doubt. Of course working dogs give birth in kennels-but the attitue of 'there's no power source' so the pups will have to make do is a poor one. I may be mistaken but the kennels appear large and not well designed for heat conservation (with the ventilated top that is ideal for adult dogs) so I still say you will probably find the small one got cold and hungry and died because of this-which a concientious breeder could have prevented. It doesn't sound like you know how to feed pups or have sought any practical help in this. I still wonder why a whelping bitch was not sent instead to someone who was vastly experienced in this area. As you say, the pups are now doing well-by natures will and nothing else I would guess although I appreciate you may have tried to feed them. The fact you also had to go and buy food after the pups were born and weren't prepared beforehand worries me as well. I have my opinions, to be honest I don't care if you don't like them - I'll not hold off saying something because it might hurt someones pride.
 
In fairness, both SusieT and Alec make good points. Whether a heat lamp, assisted feeding and 24 hour observation would have made a difference to the pup is anybodies guess. Some pups are weaklings and with all the will and intensive care in the world they will not survive.
 
SusieT said:
Perhaps if you're posts sounded more knowledgeable, rather than believing lamb milk replacer will be of assistance given in 'minute quanitites' and other such then I would have no reason to doubt. Of course working dogs give birth in kennels-but the attitue of 'there's no power source' so the pups will have to make do is a poor one. I may be mistaken but the kennels appear large and not well designed for heat conservation (with the ventilated top that is ideal for adult dogs) so I still say you will probably find the small one got cold and hungry and died because of this-which a concientious breeder could have prevented. It doesn't sound like you know how to feed pups or have sought any practical help in this. I still wonder why a whelping bitch was not sent instead to someone who was vastly experienced in this area. As you say, the pups are now doing well-by natures will and nothing else I would guess although I appreciate you may have tried to feed them. The fact you also had to go and buy food after the pups were born and weren't prepared beforehand worries me as well. I have my opinions, to be honest I don't care if you don't like them - I'll not hold off saying something because it might hurt someones pride.
Click to expand...

I am astounded by your apparent knowledge on everything!
 
SusieT said:
Perhaps if you're posts sounded more knowledgeable, rather than believing lamb milk replacer will be of assistance given in 'minute quanitites' and other such then I would have no reason to doubt. Of course working dogs give birth in kennels-but the attitue of 'there's no power source' so the pups will have to make do is a poor one. I may be mistaken but the kennels appear large and not well designed for heat conservation (with the ventilated top that is ideal for adult dogs) so I still say you will probably find the small one got cold and hungry and died because of this-which a concientious breeder could have prevented. It doesn't sound like you know how to feed pups or have sought any practical help in this. I still wonder why a whelping bitch was not sent instead to someone who was vastly experienced in this area. As you say, the pups are now doing well-by natures will and nothing else I would guess although I appreciate you may have tried to feed them. The fact you also had to go and buy food after the pups were born and weren't prepared beforehand worries me as well. I have my opinions, to be honest I don't care if you don't like them - I'll not hold off saying something because it might hurt someones pride.
Click to expand...

Have you been drinking? :D

Alec.
 
I have to say that I reared from birth two Champion bull terrier bitches on Lamlac with just added Abidec vitamin drops.Puppies rear well on goats milk from Tesco too.
I suspect the tiny one was one of those "unfinished " puppies and probably had a cleft palette. It may be the reason why the bitch was unsettled to start,pups like that worry bitches a lot.Once they are gone everything calms down and the others thrive. My labs and borders whelp outside and only in winter need a heat lamp;just a covered box with loads of deep straw and things are very snug.
 
EAST KENT said:
.......

It may be the reason why the bitch was unsettled to start,pups like that worry bitches a lot.

.......
Click to expand...

An interesting and perceptive observation. I really can't get into the transmogrifying nonsense, BUT, I've had ewes which have rejected lambs, refused point blank to rear them, I've taken them home, put them on a bottle, and they've failed and died. It's as if the mother knows something which we don't. ODD!!

The puppy concerned was tiny, and she refused all help. It's nothing to do with money, I wanted her to live.

EK, an interesting post, of yours.

Alec.
 
Last edited:
Dont Breeders check for cleft palates when they are born, just thought it was one of those things they do, having never bred puppies but read a lot about it Im just interested to know.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Dont Breeders check for cleft palates when they are born, just thought it was one of those things they do, having never bred puppies but read a lot about it Im just interested to know.
Click to expand...

I've never checked a puppy, so I wouldn't know the appropriate test, however, I would have thought that it wouldn't be until the puppy is faced with an overflow, that a cleft palate becomes obvious. I may well be wrong, and that will be pointed out to me, I'm sure(:rolleyes:), but I'd be surprised to hear that a cleft palate would be immediately obvious, from a visual inspection.

Alec.
 
It is very obvious Alec..like a chasm running from the top lip back to the back of the mouth.Puppies achieve suction by clamping the teat with their tongue onto the top palette ,no top palette ,no suction.So the pup appears to be on the teat,but in fact is getting no nourishment,the only way posible to rear such a puppy is by stomach tubing until it can manage solids such as beef mince at around two to three weeks.I know some people will rear all and everything,but with this condition I bale out thanks.It is common in short faced dogs,bulldogs and the bull breeds,but no,I do not check my border terriers as it is very uncommon in these,and probably so in spaniels. Just a puppy that was`nt meant to be really which one must accept.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top