Not happy!

No offence but in my own experience those who let dogs go at six or seven weeks usually just want to save money.
In my own breed 8 or 9 weeks is best. The dogs that have come before me, who were sold at six weeks, have been very clingy, handler dependent and with no independence of their own even at six or seven years old. I appreciate that may be breed specific and not a lot of people may care.
 
I think it must surely depend on the individual. Brig and Jake came to us at 7 weeks. They were very independent dogs, checking back on walks, not too fussed re cuddles etc. Youngsters came to us at 9 weeks, they are ridiculously bonded, soppy, must be with the humans. There must be a massive nod to nurture as well as nature, though.

I think there's a socialisation window between 6-8 weeks and I believe it's very important to have a puppy before that window closes.
 
cinnamontoast said:
……..

I think there's a socialisation window between 6-8 weeks and I believe it's very important to have a puppy before that window closes.
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Not always so, in my limited experience. I like pups which have stayed with their siblings for up to 12-14 weeks. The bond-transfer and the switch-over between the pack that they've lived in and their relationship with me has always been somehow simpler. It mostly takes a day or so and they always seem to look to form an attachment.

I suppose that we employ the system in which we have confidence. Providing that we manage to achieve a bonding, I'm not too sure that it really matters much how we go about it.

Alec.
 
blackcob said:
Being pedantic... Breeding and Sale of Dogs (Welfare) Act 1999 - the keeper of a licensed breeding establishment is guilty of an offence if he sells a dog which is less than eight weeks old, other than to the keeper of a licensed pet shop.

The new regulations haven't been enacted yet to be fair, still being drafted: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-plans-to-crack-down-on-backstreet-puppy-breeders
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Will that be near enough Alec? Will pass on the bet though, I don't even bet on racehorses!
 
In my very limited experience I prefer pups to be a little older-comparing mine to other pups who were taken home at 6 weeks they are better behaved with other dogs, easier to house train and I've never had problems with overly mouthy pups-the ones at 6 weeks have always seemed a bit too mouthy for me although I accept that just could be owners! Setter was 12 weeks, Q was 10 weeks (breeder wouldnt let them go before 8 weeks, information which he volunteered!). I also think its important that they are in the house as pups though.
 
It is really interesting reading about others criteria and experiences. I am a strong believer in genetics being the single most important factor in deciding the final temperament of a dog. It is therefore important to me to get as much information as possible about the parents, grandparents, ggrandparents and previous offspring if possible.

Socialisation and habituation of course have an important place in the rearing of a puppy and is something that should be undertaken in an intelligent and patient fashion and I would much rather this has started in the breeder's home or kennels (I don't mind a kennel reared pup at all) than waiting until the pup comes to me - so things like car trips, different surfaces and noises should have already been introduced, some interaction with older (friendly) dogs etc etc. The last "pup" I had was 8 months when he came to me, having lived in a working kennel up to that point and had started some foundation training (in bitework) and been taken on car trips and met other friendly dogs in the kennel. He still had a lot to learn about the world but was confident and inquisitive (as his genetics programmed him for) and instead of just introducing new positive experiences, I experimented in a different technique I had seen done by a working dog trainer. I built up his already strong focus and drive for his favourite toy and then started to play with and do short bursts of training (with his toy as a reward) in a load of different environments. So he was aware of other dogs, traffic, people, horses, bikes, sheep etc etc on the periphery of his vision but he was more interested in the game we were playing to take a whole lot of notice. It worked a treat - and whether that is because he already had a genetically strong temperament I don't know, but I will definitely be employing the same tactics with any future pups.
 
WorkingGSD said:
It is really interesting reading about others criteria and experiences. I am a strong believer in genetics being the single most important factor in deciding the final temperament of a dog. It is therefore important to me to get as much information as possible about the parents, grandparents, ggrandparents and previous offspring if possible.

Socialisation and habituation of course have an important place in the rearing of a puppy and is something that should be undertaken in an intelligent and patient fashion and I would much rather this has started in the breeder's home or kennels (I don't mind a kennel reared pup at all) than waiting until the pup comes to me - so things like car trips, different surfaces and noises should have already been introduced, some interaction with older (friendly) dogs etc etc. The last "pup" I had was 8 months when he came to me, having lived in a working kennel up to that point and had started some foundation training (in bitework) and been taken on car trips and met other friendly dogs in the kennel. He still had a lot to learn about the world but was confident and inquisitive (as his genetics programmed him for) and instead of just introducing new positive experiences, I experimented in a different technique I had seen done by a working dog trainer. I built up his already strong focus and drive for his favourite toy and then started to play with and do short bursts of training (with his toy as a reward) in a load of different environments. So he was aware of other dogs, traffic, people, horses, bikes, sheep etc etc on the periphery of his vision but he was more interested in the game we were playing to take a whole lot of notice. It worked a treat - and whether that is because he already had a genetically strong temperament I don't know, but I will definitely be employing the same tactics with any future pups.
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certainly getting a kennel kept pup at 7 months has been interesting for me. Fitz was in the house as a young pup and then kept in kennels. He really didnt have much life experience at all and I appreciated that moving in with me would be quite mind blowing for him. There are things that he has picked up quickly and others we have struggled with (which could be down to me-I am not a dog trainer). Some of the ones he's picked up quickly I think could be a breed thing, focus was difficult mainly due to his being over his threshold but being very stoic about it. Taking him to different classes and concentrating on the things within those classes was what brought him around.
 
I wouldn't want to put a deposit down on any animal you haven't seen and also you need to see the mother and the conditions they are kept in. There is a lot more than just meeting and choosing a pup. I would be unhappy as well.
 
WorkingGSD said:
It is really interesting reading about others criteria and experiences. I am a strong believer in genetics being the single most important factor in deciding the final temperament of a dog. It is therefore important to me to get as much information as possible about the parents, grandparents, ggrandparents and previous offspring if possible.

Socialisation and habituation of course have an important place in the rearing of a puppy and is something that should be undertaken in an intelligent and patient fashion and I would much rather this has started in the breeder's home or kennels (I don't mind a kennel reared pup at all) than waiting until the pup comes to me - so things like car trips, different surfaces and noises should have already been introduced, some interaction with older (friendly) dogs etc etc. The last "pup" I had was 8 months when he came to me, having lived in a working kennel up to that point and had started some foundation training (in bitework) and been taken on car trips and met other friendly dogs in the kennel. He still had a lot to learn about the world but was confident and inquisitive (as his genetics programmed him for) and instead of just introducing new positive experiences, I experimented in a different technique I had seen done by a working dog trainer. I built up his already strong focus and drive for his favourite toy and then started to play with and do short bursts of training (with his toy as a reward) in a load of different environments. So he was aware of other dogs, traffic, people, horses, bikes, sheep etc etc on the periphery of his vision but he was more interested in the game we were playing to take a whole lot of notice. It worked a treat - and whether that is because he already had a genetically strong temperament I don't know, but I will definitely be employing the same tactics with any future pups.
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I have recently taken on a 5 month old pup that didn't have the best start in life. I took him (along with an oldie nannie) to a place that is rarely frequented by anyone as his first foray off my own land. I was a bit p'eed off to see a pick up parked there with something in the back that was barking for Britain.

Anyway, got my two out, let them have a pee and a sniff, put the oldie back in and started doing some lead work, went around the corner of the field and WOW! To cut very long story short, the guy had a 13 week old mal by a renowned 12 year old dutch sire that is apparently very famous. (Meant ****** all to me as know nothing about the breed.) The focus that pup had on his ball and his handler was unreal. Apparently this guy sells dogs back to the police force abroad; he did say what it was he competes in - wasn't Schutzhund/IPO/Working Trials....think it was an anacronym with a 'k' in it. Anyone any ideas?

His family pet (Rottie x American Bulldog), which was the bark machine in the back of his pick up, was pretty special too. He gave me a demo of some scent work with it that would have put a few dogs on some of the local shoots to shame.

Call me a stalker but I am going back there next time I get some spare time to see what I can glean to my advantage. (Unfortunately, this is a place I used to live in and was just visiting.)
 
Thank you for that! Am off to have a google and will let you know when I next intercept him. God! Am becoming a stalker at my age!

Being a born cynic I tend to filter out what people tell me and just watch the dogs and see what they say. Consequently, I only unfortunately registered a tenth of what this guy said....there was something about doing search work with fireworks being let off that I remember if that helps narrow it down at all.
 
Sounds like a cracking pup. Would love to see that Gunnergundog. KNPV and NVBK are fantastic to watch and I would be really interested to know which he competes in. There are so few (if any) opportunities for this kind of training in the UK. A friend of mine used to travel to the continent to compete in KNPV.

Michael Ellis (dog trainer extraordinaire) has this to say about the different sports.

KNPV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsgZUltKQS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrkxfN0Mxk

NVBK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQEJ_Jl_tws
 
Very educational! Many thanks for posting those links. Am slowly working my way through all the other Michael Ellis videos I can find. Think I may be becoming addicted - it's fascinating.
 
gunnergundog said:
Very educational! Many thanks for posting those links. Am slowly working my way through all the other Michael Ellis videos I can find. Think I may be becoming addicted - it's fascinating.
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I think he is an exceptionally talented dog trainer - and although I don't agree with everything he says (or some of the tools he uses) I always learn something new from watching him and would love to be as good a dog trainer as he is. I am a Michael Ellis groupie :D
 
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