Not impressed! One rider at Burghley

I feel compelled to comment on this slightly PF bashing thread. I have now watched the whole round.

It started off brilliantly, the horse was one of the best I saw through Discovery Valley, and it jumped very neatly over the bounce when most horses bunny hopped. Yes, she gave it a reminder on the take off for the Cottesmore Leap, but for all we know the horse might be a little ‘ditchy’ and need a reminder. Yes, the horse tired dramatically towards the end – but I think this was mental tiredness rather than physical tiredness. Even after the ‘hurdles’ in the main arena, PF was well out of the saddle and not ‘hurrying’ the horse at all.

OK so the last 2 fences were scrappy, but that was all. The horse will have benefitted far more from finishing its first 4 star than being all ‘touchy feely’ and pulling the horse up. The fact that it came out the next day, passed the trot up, and then SJ’ed OK is tantamount to the decision that PF made to complete the course. She also patted it once it came through the finish.

I think this thread is totally unnecessary and PF did an excellent job on a horse that will have benefitted tremendously from its first trip round a tough 4* track.

JB x
 
from the original post I immediately knew who we were taking about - having seen the BBC coverage yesterday when Clare Balding said it "didnt look pretty" or words to that effect.

However.

Having then watched the whole round I don't think it was bad at all and I would gladly hand over my horse to her to ride.

She did look totally knackered when she got back, having to be constantly on a horses case like that is much more exhausting than a nice pleasant ride. I really doubt it is an indication of her level of fitness.
 
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I watched her whole round, and though that other than the last part, she did an excellent job. It was his first 4* and she got round clear. The BBC were unfair to only show the last few jumps because she jumped well most of the way.

People are constantly moaning about Pippa for retiring!
 
glamourpuss said:
And what *is* the HHO obsession with whether or not these top riders pat their horses? Why does not patting them make them akin to Satan?
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I think giving your horse a pat is just a nice way to show your appreciation that they have got you round a 4* XC safely, however well he did or didn't jump he's still tried hard and got round!

Maybe I just have a very amateur view but I'm always overwhelmed with appreciation for my pony when he gets me round the piddly xc that we do, surely finishing a 4* xc deserves a pat and a scratch on the neck no matter how tired the rider is?
:)
 
As long as Pippa felt he would carry on over the last few fences she made the absolute right decision. The horses have to learn to gallop and jump, they can't just give up on the rider.

If you have read WFP's book What Will Be you will know that he had a problem with Chaka (I think) fighting and fighting and then dying on him. He realised that by riding him harder then the horse learnt not to fight so much and it ended up being so much better.
 
Princess P said:
I think giving your horse a pat is just a nice way to show your appreciation that they have got you round a 4* XC safely, however well he did or didn't jump he's still tried hard and got round!

Maybe I just have a very amateur view but I'm always overwhelmed with appreciation for my pony when he gets me round the piddly xc that we do, surely finishing a 4* xc deserves a pat and a scratch on the neck no matter how tired the rider is?
:)
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Must admit i totally agree with this, and just cannot imagine ever being so preoccupied that i wouldn't pat my horse... I thought when Lucinda Fredericks won on Brit and was pointing down at her during her lap of honour (was it at Rolex Kentucky?) it was lovely, and really showed her appreciation for her partner. Doesn't matter how good you are as a rider, you won't get anywhere without a decent horse!
 
Re: the BBC's coverage, unfortunately due to lack of red button action, the coverage was limited, and the 'messy bits' make for better TV, hence it not being a representative coverage of her round.

I do think Pure Addiction is ever so pretty :)
 
I have not read all replies on this thread but seriously....get real people! They had a duff stride to the big white oxer and she had to keep him up to his work at the following fence the water. She coaxed him on & got him jumping again and given how sweetly he popped through the gymnastic exercise of three hurdles each two strides apart I really think people have a cheek to be slating her saying how exhausted blah bla blah the horse was. There is no way an exhausted horse would have popped those three so sweetly and tidily if he was completely strung out! She gave him a few reminders here and there and the key thing is he responded....had he not responded then yes she'd have been at nothing and should have pulled him up but she got a response and a positive one. He pricked his ears and got home. For all any of us now he is a lazy type that has to be kept up to his work, she felt he went a bit green etc. Not so many years ago she used to get slated on here for pulling up!! Its nearly the end of the season, the horse will get a good break and have learnt from his experience!
 
I think she did a good job to bring him home clear , he did not give her a easy ride and she was using all her skill and experience to get the job done he did look really tired at the last two but walked around happily at the finish. PF did look exhausted and I should think she will not be happy with that.
She is one of the best producer of young horses in the world and would pull up a horse in competion if she felt she should , I seem to remember she pulled up Primores Pride during the cross country during one of his early team appearances when he tired.( and got a lot of flac for it )
 
Having been at Burghley an the Saturday and seen a lot of the riders finish, the one who stood out to me for lack of consideratrion of the horse was an american lady rider, not one I'd heard of before, who as she came over the finish line socked her poor horse in the teeth to bring it back to walk, and then started talking to her supporters on the ground - no pat or check to see if the horse was ok - just a selfish act to get it back to walk rather than work it down carefully.

At the other extreme, all the best riders worked their horses down carefully in trot and canter, before getting off them - shows the difference between a proper horseperson and one who is not....
 
Ouch! Most of the round shown on the You tube link seemed to be good (am into dressage and showing) to my relatively inexperienced eyes but the last group of fences look very uncomfortable for horse, he did look rather tired and maybe she should have pulled up - but are we not always wise after the event?
 
kerilli said:
Hahaha exactly. I've seen horrific sights up to 1* level, riders who shouldn't even be attempting to go xc yet imho, and yet nobody dares say a word (even in favour of their poor horses getting a break!) we all have to be PC... yet here we have one of the best riders in the world doing a really good job on a first-timer over one of the biggest 4* tracks seen for years, and some people feel justified in ripping her apart... ffs.

Heck there are even a shed load of pictures of HHOers messing up fences on here aren't there. Remember the "Show me your jumping bloopers" thread? At various levels! Hope none of these experts are on there! Anyone who has not messed up the odd fence at some point is telling porkies!
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Pippa said herself something along the lines of "He's not a thoroughbred, therefore got very tired towards the end and I think everything had to go back to throwing the 'pretty/stylishness' out the window and focus on being effective, getting back to real horsemanship"

You people drive me nuts, judgemental of a rider that would be the first to put her hand up and retire if SHE felt it was right and appropriet to do so.

God help her if the H&H forum members, sat on their backsides with their coffe and lapdogs and pictures of "sandy and bronty" on the mantlepeice start stewing over how one of the worlds best riders is using her skills and common sense to bring an enexperienced, tired horse home the best she can.

Get real people....it shows how narrow minded you all are that you only critique the top names after a big 4* has been on TV.

If you want to see some genuinley appalling riding you can look no further than your local hunter trials. Trust me.
 
Good lord... I forgot how dodgy HHO is ! If its not bashing the Professionals themselves , its bashing those who post an opinion (good bad or indifferent) about them. Beleive it or not, the level at which you ride has little or no bearing on your ability to have an opinion about what you see others doing. Horse welfare is something we ALL have a vested interest in. My vet doesnt even ride but he can see a horse which is in distress. Shall I tell him that until he can jump my horse as big as I can, he should keep his opinions to himself ?

If you, as a horse lover, didnt like what you saw then you can bet your bottom dollar that there are countless others also thinking the same. Some of those might be big cheeses at the BBC and some might be small crackers on the HHO forum but we all watched it and are free to make up our own minds about it. You can blame who you like; the rider, the horse, the BBC, the weather, the course... but the fact remains that watching anyone over riding at or between fences on a labouring horse is never pleasant to watch. Whether it be the last fence or the first. I am just glad it didnt end in disaster for horse or rider.

*sigh*
 
It is pretty obvious from the full video that towards the end she felt the horse go slightly flat on her, was ensuring he was still going forwards and then doubly ensuring that the jump was safe by going on a shorter, more adjusted stride. Far better than pushing a horse on a long stride and risking a fall. Yes, perhaps it was not a perfect round (although it was clear) with an experienced horse finishing fresh, but there can only be one winner - ifs unrealistic to expect in this discipline that every round be the same. The horse did seem to tire towards the end of the course, but it was still picking up its legs over the jumps and galloping well between fences, no reason to pull up.

Any human endurance athlete will tell you that it generally takes years of competition to build up to being competitive in an endurance event. You can only do so much in training.
 
As my previous post, I don't think in this instance Pippa did anything wrong.

HOWEVER.....it's threads on forums like these that help people to learn. If we were all to bow down to professional riders because they are professional, or believe them to do no wrong because of who they are, then we wouldn't learn from their mistakes.

They are in the public eye, and ANYONE in the public eye will be criticised, when they do wrong and when they don't.

It just may make people think twice before they make a mistake with their own horse.
 
Saratoga said:
As my previous post, I don't think in this instance Pippa did anything wrong.

HOWEVER.....it's threads on forums like these that help people to learn. If we were all to bow down to professional riders because they are professional, or believe them to do no wrong because of who they are, then we wouldn't learn from their mistakes.

They are in the public eye, and ANYONE in the public eye will be criticised, when they do wrong and when they don't.

It just may make people think twice before they make a mistake with their own horse.
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But to learn from their mistakes surely we would have to have some insight into how that horse felt at the time, why they rode that way, any history that may have influenced the situation etc? That would then be a great learning tool, but to base our "education" on heresay, gossip and everything always looking perfect is in my opinion unrealistic.
 
I think the criticism should be for the BBC coverage. I was actually going to post on here to ask if anyone else had seen the whole round, since I was quite shocked by the very minimal clips I saw - the way it was cut together suggested that the horse was struggling.

Definitely didn't want to criticise, just wanted to make sure that it was, as I thought, a case of poor editing.
 
AMH said:
I think the criticism should be for the BBC coverage. I was actually going to post on here to ask if anyone else had seen the whole round, since I was quite shocked by the very minimal clips I saw - the way it was cut together suggested that the horse was struggling.

Definitely didn't want to criticise, just wanted to make sure that it was, as I thought, a case of poor editing.
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Agreed, horrible editing. Having now watched the BBC version (sky+box playing up so it took ages to persuade it to play) they only showed the bad bits at the end of poor old Pippa's round, and if the whole round had been like that I agree she might have been expected to pull up... but it wasn't, most of it was excellent.
BBC being sensationalist obv, needing to show those Thrills 'n' Spills and 'n' 'Eeek' moments... :( :( :(
 
The trouble is, 99% of the people doing the highlights shows know pretty much nothing about horses/riding/eventing - so they pick the bits which interest them, as the uninformed public. It's a bit like the highlights of F1 - the last few laps and all the crashes/overtakes/near misses.

I did get asked at Badminton one year why I hadn't logged anyone at fence 9 because they wanted some of fence 9 in the highlights show....ummmm....you don't have a camera at fence 9.... :D
 
Just to say, it is because of threads like these that I don't come on HHO anymore - I saw something on Facebook that made me come on to see what was bring referred to and I wish I hadn't bothered and had left you lot of ignorant, self-righteous, self-important b*tches to snuffle away to yourselves undisturbed :mad: As to the voices of reason (you know who you are :D) all respect to you that you take the time to try and put people straight, but history suggests you are wasting your time ;)

Oh, and one last thing, I had accepted that the armchair critics are incompetent but I hadn't realised they are also blind: it is very clear on the YouTube link supplied (which could be titled "A Masterclass in how to get a slightly green horse safely round its first 4* event")
that Pippa is already stroking his neck after the last fence BEFORE she even passes through the finish...

Now, I am SO out of here :mad: *waves goodbye*
 
Rach_W said:
If you take the time to watch the rest of the round, you will see that it is only the last few fences over which the horse struggles. The rest of the time he is taking a good hold and clearly not giving the rider an easy ride. I think she did well to get them home safely.
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I agree its only as the horse was getting tired and you can say by how it jumps it is getting tired. If watched from the start this horse had a lovely round. i do not believe the whip was used excessively but to encourage. This a 4 star event and is suppose to test the stamina in these horses. The horse did very well and so did the rider as not naming
 
I watched this expecting to be horrified, with a horse labouring over the fences, unbalanced rider and being beaten to within an inch of its life! - I think I must be watching something different as horse and rider looked fine to me, not even that knackered, don't think it even touched a fence all round - crikey goodness knows what you would make observing a days hunting (even over small vale country) with much flapping, eyewatering missers all accompanied with eyes tight shut, alcohol and fags to settle the nerves!!!
 
kerilli said:
Agreed, horrible editing. Having now watched the BBC version (sky+box playing up so it took ages to persuade it to play) they only showed the bad bits at the end of poor old Pippa's round, and if the whole round had been like that I agree she might have been expected to pull up... but it wasn't, most of it was excellent.
BBC being sensationalist obv, needing to show those Thrills 'n' Spills and 'n' 'Eeek' moments... :( :( :(
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I agree - I saw her at the Dairy Mound and she gave the horse a couple of necessary smacks to say "oi, get on" I thought, and got safely up and over the combination. I was impressed by her lightening-quick reaction to keep the horse motivated as you really wouldn't want a horse to falter halfway up that bounce thing! I think the BBC clips are very much shown out of context.
 
mrussell said:
Good lord... I forgot how dodgy HHO is ! If its not bashing the Professionals themselves , its bashing those who post an opinion (good bad or indifferent) about them. Beleive it or not, the level at which you ride has little or no bearing on your ability to have an opinion about what you see others doing. Horse welfare is something we ALL have a vested interest in. My vet doesnt even ride but he can see a horse which is in distress. Shall I tell him that until he can jump my horse as big as I can, he should keep his opinions to himself ?

If you, as a horse lover, didnt like what you saw then you can bet your bottom dollar that there are countless others also thinking the same. Some of those might be big cheeses at the BBC and some might be small crackers on the HHO forum but we all watched it and are free to make up our own minds about it. You can blame who you like; the rider, the horse, the BBC, the weather, the course... but the fact remains that watching anyone over riding at or between fences on a labouring horse is never pleasant to watch. Whether it be the last fence or the first. I am just glad it didnt end in disaster for horse or rider.

*sigh*
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Oh thank you for posting this. This thread has reminded me why I don't come in here. How far up your own backsides can some of you people get?
 
I don't post on here much, am more of a lurker but wanted to throw my two-pennance in fwiw. Wasn't it after last years Burghley that everyone on here was saying how brilliant it was to see Pippa back at 4* level again after time out of it due to lack of horsepower, as well as other things? Also, we have all this Oli and Pippa bashing going on but people seem to have forgotten back to the olympics (or whenever it was) when a certain kiwi rider was riding his older, very experience horse in its last competition, he pushed him too far, made a terrible error and paid the price, and afterwards did not check his horse straight away. Back then he was considered the devil himself but he seems to have become a hero again, people's opinions will always sway with the current time I guess. I've never ridden to 4* level or anywhere near, but used to groom for a rider who competed very sucessfully at that level, and we were at Burghley the year Pippa did her grand slam there, and were only three stables away from her. Believe me you will not find a rider on the circuit who cares more about her horses, or will pull them out of a competition if she is not happy. She is also well aware of how much in the public eye she is and that is a massive amount of pressure to have to deal with. The horses going around 4* level and riders all have to be qualified, I don't know how it is now but they certainly used to have completed 2 CCI*** events before going 4*. It takes months of preparation to get there, all the fitness work, strick diet programme, through competition plan, and a little bit of luck just to be able to get in the lorry and drive there before you have even begun the competition. The riders certainly are not there just to have school because they have got a bit bored of Tweseldown! I expect if I ever got a horse of my own to Burghley it probably wouldn't be fit enough to get around because it would have spent the last few weeks leading up to the event in its stable with just a couple of airholes to allow it to breathe through all the cotton wool it would be wrapped in!!! xxx
 
He completely lost his focus and she did well to get him round the course at all. I don't think she showed exhaustion as much as sheer relief at the end.
 
TableDancer said:
Just to say, it is because of threads like these that I don't come on HHO anymore - I saw something on Facebook that made me come on to see what was bring referred to and I wish I hadn't bothered and had left you lot of ignorant, self-righteous, self-important b*tches to snuffle away to yourselves undisturbed :mad: As to the voices of reason (you know who you are :D) all respect to you that you take the time to try and put people straight, but history suggests you are wasting your time ;)

Oh, and one last thing, I had accepted that the armchair critics are incompetent but I hadn't realised they are also blind: it is very clear on the YouTube link supplied (which could be titled "A Masterclass in how to get a slightly green horse safely round its first 4* event")
that Pippa is already stroking his neck after the last fence BEFORE she even passes through the finish...

Now, I am SO out of here :mad: *waves goodbye*
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take heart TD there are still a lot of people in here who are simply not getting involved in these "bashing" threads as i am shure i'm not the only one keeping out of it (until now)
please don't leave on the account of a few people who hide behind comp screens and start typing without knowing the full facts :(

i for one agree and can't see any wrong doing on PF's part and isn't it fab to see her back at 4* ,well done p for carrying that horse over the last few fences :)

although that is only my arm chair opinion as i have only gone around a few 90s so who am i to know anyway :p
 
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