not much improvement

_daisy_

_daisy_

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well after the steroid injection Chantin had on Tuesday, the swellings have subsided but have revealed the underlying problem.
So went to collect Chantins prescription from Boots chemist at lunch today and all I can say is that these tablets better bloody work - they cost me £42 for the prescription.
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Also roll on the results of the blood tests.

So went down to the yard tonight armed with flask full of hot water (couldnt be bothered to wait for kettler to boil at yard so fecthed it from home as it had already boiled
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) and gently cleaned all her lumps/bumps. Shes still in pain with them and she is stamping her foot really badly - so much so she has hammered her shoe into her foot. Farrier is going to take them off tomorrow night.

So have a look and let me know what you think?
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urticaria

my pony had that

I talked to the chap from Equine America and he was fed Lamiguard (Ponies cannot have steroid injections as they get laminitis ) Steroid injections are also a risk for horses - watch out for laminitis signs with your horse (and btw did the vet mention this as a risk before giving the steroid injection ???????????)

(large court case about a top dressage horse been in nag and dog - vet damages about 300k due to a steroid injection)

It takes a while for the lumps to go down. They are caused by an allergic reaction leaving toxins which the body has to excrete. I kept my pony in lunge work as sweat is one way of excreting stuff from the body - plus then cold hosing afterwards. As soon as he was able to have a saddle on he worked under saddle - it took about 3 weeks for the lumps to finally go

His were caused by the yard feeding 14.5% oat based feed instead of pasture mix - but of course THEY didn't pay the vets bills or apologise......................
(and it wasn't a 'mistake' - they'd run out of pasture mix so just fed the high protein stuff 'instead' - morons)
 
ok, sounds very similar.

Rio's started by looking a bit like fly bites, then we thought it was an allergic reaction to washing powder or fly spray, then food...etc... eventually she was covered in these bumbs, and she was itchy and miserble. vet gave her stereod injections, which didnt seem to help,

eventually vet advised to take her off everything except dry hay, and keep her off straw etc (we had her on paper on mats) for a week to see what happened, after about 5 days the bumps started to go down, after 2 weeks the vet suggested we start introducing things to see if the bumps came back, so at the beginning of each week i would try something, first we tried mollases, the next week barley (it is important to expose the horse to whatever you are testing for at least a week before trying something else) eventually we had her turned out in a feild and eating her normal feed and no bumps,

then i moved her into a different field, and the next morning the bumps were back, so she had another week in to recover and we tried her in yet another field, she was fine.

the only thing we could find that was different in this one field was that it was surrounded by poplar trees. so i fed her a load of poplar leaves, and the next morning bumps were back.

so we eventually discovered she was allergic to poplar trees, we think she had been chewing the bark off them and set of a reaction.

not sure if this helps, but whilst all this was going on i had no clue what was wrong with her, she was unbearable, and lost loads of wieght, so i know how your feeling
 
the vet hasnt said it is urticaria. The blood samples have been sent off for alergen testing so hopefully that will explain something when they come back. Just my luck it will tell me nothing and itll be something like stress!

My old pony (who has had lammi) was given a steroid injection into her stifle just before Christmas and is due to go back for further injections if she needs them shortly. Im was lucky that it didnt affect her however I has a serious chat with my vet before giving her the injection.
Re Chantin. The vet advised me re lammi but advised that she wasnt going to give her a large dose anyway so would probably not cause lammi but couldnt say for def. The injection was given.

I keep my horse on DIY livery just like my other 4. No bosy feeds them apart from me and my mum. She gets fed what I give her and thats that. We have gone through everything that could possibly have caused this reaction but cannot find anything. She has been on the same feed all winter (so approx 6 months), the same haylage from the same supplier for approx 4 years (he doesnt put anything on his fields, so that counts out pesticides etc).
The vet hasnt mentioned anything about exercise, and certainly not mentioned anything about toxins etc. Dont think she really wants to pin it down on something incase its wrong, before teh test results have come back/ Ive just been exercising her out in hand on the roads etc as the tracks are too wet atm and this can trigger her MF again. Dont think ill be able to ride her for a while as she has got some rather tender lumps on her spine and the area where the back of the saddle goes is also very tender.

Have been wondering if this could be a side effect of all the problems with the MF she has been having. Could she really have never got over the MF and it has gone further up her body?
 
yes that helps lots thanks Madhector. We were thinking along lines of midges at first but then moved onto trees and pollen. I have just sectioned off the first part of my field as it is very wet and boggy, so they are further down the field and nearer the trees and pond. I have since been told that a previous liveries cob suffered with these lumps on his legs and it was something to do with the trees. Cant say that it is definitely the trees but well find out soon.
The vet has said to keep everything else the same for the moment being then we should hopefully get some answers from the bloods. If not then I will have to exclude everything from her diet and reintroduce like you did.
 
nope - urticaria is basically a term that is used for those sort of lumps - caused by an allergic reaction (perhaps it's an old name and there is a newer term)

allergens are basically something that the body treats as 'hostile' - i.e. toxic - so the lumps are reaction to 'toxins'

The lamiguard is designed to help with the toxins that cause laminitis and it DID work and the E. America guy had provenance that it had been used with success on other urticaria cases.

Personally I'd go for lunging, loose schooling and then cold sponging/hosing the lumpy areas. If you feel them they will be 'hot' (warmer than the surrounding tissue) and as with a bruise or swelling - cold hosing will help to relieve the discomfort.

Vets tend to be (over) cautious about exercise - but if you know that apart from the lumps your horse is fit and sound then go for it - you aren't trying to get a white lather - you are just trying to get a normal 'workout'

also increase the salt in the diet (and add epsom salts to the diet) - the other way the body has of excreting toxins is via urine. So you need to encourage this by adding salt (to promote thirst) and epsom salts to act as a diruetic (i.e. makes them pee).

Some horses will take E.S in feed and not water and some vice versa. I gave my pony e.s. in the water - about 3 tablespoons to a normal 2 gallon bucket as well as the lamiguard

cut the feed back to total basics and don't do any turnout - it is at this time of year that there are pollens,etc

My old horse had to have a full allergy workup done by my vet who specialises in this field - using subcutaneous doses of various substances to test for reactions. Even though he has now had desensitising treatment for 2 years and is 'cured' I still have issues between mid-feb and end march which in his case cause coughing - made worse if he is turned out and not stabled - so for that period of the year he cannot risk having any turnout at all.
 
thanks for all that.
it all seems to have come about since she has been on box rest due to her mud fever. It wasnt a problem when she was having daily turnout. My main problem is she only has a 12x12 stable and she is 17.2hh. its not the best size for her as she is claustraphobic too but its better than nothing.
Dont think she will take E S in anything as she is a real picky eater at the best of time. However at the moment she is peeing for england - think something to do with the new boy that has brought her into season.

my thoughts were to change nothign or add nothing till we get the results then that way I cant make it worse? maybe wrong lines of thinking?
 
I certainly agree with epsom salts,my horse suffers from all sorts of strange symptoms when his blood gets heated[ just my way of putting it] and a small handful of ES sorts him out.
Years ago we always gave a bran mash with ES before rest day and it may be frowned on today but with all these mixes around I sometimes think their digestion needs a rest but that may be old fashioned
 
'Have been wondering if this could be a side effect of all the problems with the MF she has been having. Could she really have never got over the MF and it has gone further up her body?'

I think it more simply a case of her resistance to illness and other issues being affected by the mud fever, allowing this allergic reaction to come out...she will make a full recovery, I am sure
 
Thats probably true. With everything thats happened since Christmas, maybe her immune system is struggling to cope with it all. I hope she doesmake a full receovery, if not then at 4 shes got sod all else to do really if she cant be ridden as I certainly wont use her to breed with.
 
its very odd this type of thing. Byters was bigger more fluidy lumps which we thought were fly bites as did the vet, and the other horses were terrified of her in her space suit, then it turned out to be feed. I'm sure we never had as many problems in the olden days with straights!!!!

Asti got the odd raised hair reaction - nettlerash but still a form of urticaria I believe, from rolling on a baby nettle plant (dopey mare) and her mum used to get a few lumps likes your mares, when she got sweated up!

I hope it comes right soon, no end of worry isn't it????? We gave Byter something herbal to help, will look up what it was for you...
 
It looks very much like hives/nettlerash/urticaria to me. There's an ad in today's H&H (I can say that!) for a feed which shows a horse with hives. Page 49. Our mare got it one day - no warning,awful scabby bumps everywhere. I bet she's allergic to something and you may never find out what. I hope she is back to normal and a lot more comfy soon.
 
I've had three horses to ride who occasionally broke out in hives from stress. I must say though, that they were also generally sensitive and inclined to "break out" from factors like changes in feed or bedding, so hard to tell if having a reaction at shows etc was from one or the other. One is even allergic to his tetanus vac.!

I have to say I've not had much luck with oral anti-histimines (and they are illegal to show on anyway) but I do know other people who have so I guess it depends on the situation.

By the way, just because it came up, the lawsuit about the steroid injection was because the horse was given a massive overdose, not because a standard injection went wrong. Yes, there is a risk involved in giving steriods but it's not a particularly significant one. And remember that joint injections are not systemic so they are differnent in effect again.
 
One of my horses came out with these last week. The only change to her lifestyle was the introduction of black sunflower seeds 3 weeks ago, so I think that she is having excess protein. I have cut this from her diet now and the lumps are going.

All my other horses are on the sunflower seeds and dont seem to have any problems.
 
this is all over the place now last year and this i have seen many many cases ,several of our got it after clipping one relly bad vet sad it didnt hurt them but this mare was in agony for several days we tried all sorts nothing worked but it does go on its own dont get them hot by work or rugging as it make it worse best we found was washing with hibby scrub and calomine lotion did give relief ,why so many are getting it is beyond me ,hope yours better soon
 
have you thought about warble flys? They burrow under the skin, can cause large swellings (which have now obviously been reduced by the steroids) but because they are still burrowed in the actual 'initial' bumps will still be there.........just a thought. Also that would explain the foot stamping. Mare at my yard had them last year, very very similar to how chantin looks now.
 
Bearing in mind that I have no experience regarding your situation, if it is a reaction to Toxins( I am going on what Airdale said) then could something like NAF D-Tox help?

Hope she perks up soon.
 
My pony had the same last year and the vet thought that he may have rolled in a an ants nest l had to cold hose him down every couple of hours. He had bald patches for a while until his hair grew back.
 
Wrong - there IS a SPECIFIC risk in giving Steroids to ponies - similar to the risk of using bute on ponies. That risk doesn't exist in horses in regard to bute and is minimal in regard to steroids in horses

However - you should NOT accept having a steroid injection done on any pony - especially one that is basically native breed.

I'd rather have a horse with 'spots' for a month than have one ruined for life by laminitis !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vets tend to try and keep the owner happy; horse has spots; owner wants spots to go away; vet gives steroid injection; ........................

If the vet doesn't give the injection some owners tend to think that the vet has 'done nothing' and 'wasted their money on a call out' and the horse still has spots.

The vet is in a lose:lose situation for this sort of condition.

(apart from them still getting paid for the visit
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airedale, I don't disagree with your views on steroids but I think it is a matter of balancing risks.

acute allergic reaction leads to lumps and heat and irritation you can see, potentially lumps that you can't see (internally), elevated temperatures and the potential in some species for dangerous swellings, fits and collapse. Each treatment choice must be based on it's merits, and in some cases the use of steroids would definitely be the lesser of two evils, or even a life saving choice.
 
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