Not quite right hay

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AWinter

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As I've bought all of the stock from my regular supplier and know it won't last me the winter I ordered a pallet of dust-extracted wrapped meadow hay from a big supplier I have used many times over the years with no issues, normally the hay smells lovely and fresh absolutely no quality issues. It is not cheap.

Pallet arrived yesterday and I opened one bag, it smells different, not like fresh meadow, perhaps a bit musty but nothing too offensive. However despite being dust-extracted there are still little clouds of dust (mould?) showing when I pull handfuls out and it just generally looks a bit pale. When I look really closely I can see some of the strands have a fine white coating on them but not enough I can capture it on a photograph. My gut is saying the hay is off, horses have barely touched it overnight but I am also aware most people would look at it and say it was fine to feed.

I don't want to feed it, what I'd like is to return it for either a refund or a different batch. My friend got a pallet from the same company last week and its lovely and smells fresh and meadowy and looks like a completely different cut.

I suppose what I'm asking is what do I do if the supplier says its fine and won't exchange/refund? Its not like its covered in visible mould, but I am just not comfortable feeding hay I feel is a bit off. Both of my horses have had liver damage from musty hay in the past that a livery yard owner insisted was fine to feed.

I opened a second bale this morning and it is exactly the same, there is nothing glaringly offensive about it, but it just doesn't feel fresh. It feels like a musty bale has been put through the dust extractor.

Its so stressful, you think you're safe because you're paying through the nose for quality hay and yet there are still always issues. I have messaged the supplier and waiting on their reply.
 
AWinter said:
As I've bought all of the stock from my regular supplier and know it won't last me the winter I ordered a pallet of dust-extracted wrapped meadow hay from a big supplier I have used many times over the years with no issues, normally the hay smells lovely and fresh absolutely no quality issues. It is not cheap.

Pallet arrived yesterday and I opened one bag, it smells different, not like fresh meadow, perhaps a bit musty but nothing too offensive. However despite being dust-extracted there are still little clouds of dust (mould?) showing when I pull handfuls out and it just generally looks a bit pale. When I look really closely I can see some of the strands have a fine white coating on them but not enough I can capture it on a photograph. My gut is saying the hay is off, horses have barely touched it overnight but I am also aware most people would look at it and say it was fine to feed.

I don't want to feed it, what I'd like is to return it for either a refund or a different batch. My friend got a pallet from the same company last week and its lovely and smells fresh and meadowy and looks like a completely different cut.

I suppose what I'm asking is what do I do if the supplier says its fine and won't exchange/refund? Its not like its covered in visible mould, but I am just not comfortable feeding hay I feel is a bit off. Both of my horses have had liver damage from musty hay in the past that a livery yard owner insisted was fine to feed.

I opened a second bale this morning and it is exactly the same, there is nothing glaringly offensive about it, but it just doesn't feel fresh. It feels like a musty bale has been put through the dust extractor.

Its so stressful, you think you're safe because you're paying through the nose for quality hay and yet there are still always issues. I have messaged the supplier and waiting on their reply.
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You know there’s an issue, personally wouldn’t risk it, particularly with already compromised horses.
Chances are it was not quite dry enough when wrapped - which this summer was pretty inexcusable - it would be fine to feed to cattle. Could just be those two bales, but don’t open any more if you want supplier to take them back and exchange. It’s entirely likely the supplier doesn’t know, because they won’t have opened them, either.
As above, if you have a net full from your friend by way of comparison?
 
Exasperated said:
You know there’s an issue, personally wouldn’t risk it, particularly with already compromised horses.
Chances are it was not quite dry enough when wrapped - which this summer was pretty inexcusable - it would be fine to feed to cattle. Could just be those two bales, but don’t open any more if you want supplier to take them back and exchange. It’s entirely likely the supplier doesn’t know, because they won’t have opened them, either.
As above, if you have a net full from your friend by way of comparison?
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Its not wrapped hay in that sense, its normal dry hay that was initially baled in large bales, then they put it through the dust extractor and re-wrap it into small bales. It doesn't feel like its gone off in the bag, I feel like it was a musty bale thats gone through the extractor. Unfortunately my friend is about an hour away or I'd get her to come and sniff it for me because I can't quite describe the smell 😅.

Anxiously waiting for the reply from the supplier, its such a pain getting pallet deliveries because if he will take it back I need to now rewrap the pallet.

Thanks for all of your suggestions guys
 
I've just had the same but with haylage from Mole Valley. Opened one - bale very dark and heavy and smelt more like silage and also very short strands if that makes sense. Next bale the same. Horses not keen (nor was I lol).
Returned to MV (10 bales) and they swapped them for me with no probs at all. Love MV . Think any supplier should swap them if horse won't eat it and has done previously. Might not be so straightforward if from a local farmer though. X
 
So he’s completely fobbed me off and now isn’t replying to me. This is over £300 worth of hay and a company that delivers all over the country by the pallet albeit not a big one. I’m not sure what to do
 
HaffiesRock said:
What has he said?
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He said something about it being his best batch and he hopes the rest of the pallet is okay, he hasn’t replied to any of my further messages asking to exchange it. I have been a loyal customer for the last 2 years, when I want to order/pay he replies within a few hours. It is so frustrating it is so much money then the customer service is terrible as soon as you have an issue, I’ve had this with local farmers in the past, didn’t expect it of this company. It’s like they’re irritated by you.
 
AWinter said:
So he’s completely fobbed me off and now isn’t replying to me. This is over £300 worth of hay and a company that delivers all over the country by the pallet albeit not a big one. I’m not sure what to do
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You mean you’ve had a conversation and been told nothing wrong with it, or never been able to discuss it at all?
£300 to a nationwide distributor of forage is not a large amount, guessing the hassle of collecting and replacing will be more the issue. Are you an established customer, is it the CEO, or the haulier who won’t answer?
Could ask local Trading Standards for advice on substandard purchase, or are you not quite certain whether your hay is definitely in this category? Hay got this year ought to have at least been thoroughly dried and not stored musty (well, from most parts of the country), just not a lot of it, hence prices. It’s possible that some owners and horses would be happy to have it before next spring.
You could try steaming a net full from one of the opened bales, see if that improves palatability, but really should pursue the suppliers for refund / replacement.
 
How disappointing. I'd be writing a letter, formally requesting a refund/replacement and stating what's wrong with the hay, within the next 7 days in order to avoid further action being taken through the Small Claims Court. Hopefully they'll oblige, but if not I would carry out my threat, it's not expensive to do.
 
AWinter said:
He said something about it being his best batch and he hopes the rest of the pallet is okay, he hasn’t replied to any of my further messages asking to exchange it. I have been a loyal customer for the last 2 years, when I want to order/pay he replies within a few hours. It is so frustrating it is so much money then the customer service is terrible as soon as you have an issue, I’ve had this with local farmers in the past, didn’t expect it of this company. It’s like they’re irritated by you.
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Does he make all the hay, then bag and sell it; or is his company a forage merchants, buying in and selling on?
If it’s genuinely his ‘best batch’ - shouldn’t have any trouble selling it to his other customers - ha!
Explain yours won’t eat it, you can’t risk opening more bales to find out, because you need them refunding or replacing - and put everything in writing in case you need to take legal action to recover your money.
I’m sure he is irritated, but that’s not the issue!
 
Exasperated said:
Does he make all the hay, then bag and sell it; or is his company a forage merchants, buying in and selling on?
If it’s genuinely his ‘best batch’ - shouldn’t have any trouble selling it to his other customers - ha!
Explain yours won’t eat it, you can’t risk opening more bales to find out, because you need them refunding or replacing - and put everything in writing in case you need to take legal action to recover your money.
I’m sure he is irritated, but that’s not the issue!
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My friend literally got a pallet from him the same day I did and its fresh and normal, they've clearly just put a musty bale through the extractor, which fine it happens but he should be sorting it straight away. Fairly sure its their hay that they make on their farm. He may yet reply but the lack of urgency is really irritating. £300 may not be much to them but its a lot of money to me.
 
If you paid by credit card, you should be able to initiate a chargeback, as you’ve told them of the issue with quality of the hay and horses not eating it, giving them the opportunity to refund you. But as they’re being difficult, the product is not as youve had previously, product not as described (i.e horse food which horses even refuse to eat) and you could initiate a direct refund via contacting the CC company/bank.

I’d then email them telling them you’ve got a direct CC refund by the bank and their hay is here to collect within X days, otherwise it’s going on the compost heap.

I’m shocked as a loyal customer they are treating you this way. The suppliers that know me tend to be more accomodating, and are very well aware the odd crappy bale can end up going through the bagging system.

I’ve had wrapped ‘hay’ from the UK before. It wasn’t great nor as described. Expensive too. It was described as ‘Canadian hay’ , and I got some musty bleached yellow mainly ryegrass bales with some really nice green timothy sprinkled into it. 2 completely different hays were being mixed during bagging. The bags were just white thin plastic, no writing on the bags at all. That company name began with R …Hay.
 
PurBee said:
If you paid by credit card, you should be able to initiate a chargeback, as you’ve told them of the issue with quality of the hay and horses not eating it, giving them the opportunity to refund you. But as they’re being difficult, the product is not as youve had previously, product not as described (i.e horse food which horses even refuse to eat) and you could initiate a direct refund via contacting the CC company/bank.

I’d then email them telling them you’ve got a direct CC refund by the bank and their hay is here to collect within X days, otherwise it’s going on the compost heap.

I’m shocked as a loyal customer they are treating you this way. The suppliers that know me tend to be more accomodating, and are very well aware the odd crappy bale can end up going through the bagging system.

I’ve had wrapped ‘hay’ from the UK before. It wasn’t great nor as described. Expensive too. It was described as ‘Canadian hay’ , and I got some musty bleached yellow mainly ryegrass bales with some really nice green timothy sprinkled into it. 2 completely different hays were being mixed during bagging. The bags were just white thin plastic, no writing on the bags at all. That company name began with R …Hay.
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Unfortunately I paid via bank transfer, not sure I can claim that back. I’ll send a further message today then decide what to do. Company begins with a V. The hay has always been really nice, fresh smelling meadow hay, so disappointed, buying hay is so stressful.
 
AWinter said:
Unfortunately I paid via bank transfer, not sure I can claim that back. I’ll send a further message today then decide what to do. Company begins with a V. The hay has always been really nice, fresh smelling meadow hay, so disappointed, buying hay is so stressful.
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Some pallets of forage can have a few round bales used for 50 small wrapped bales. That might be why they said check other bales. If you are able to check a bale from the bottom of the pallet load, to see if that is the same quality as the top bales in the pallet you’ve already tried, then that suggests the whole pallet load is subpar hay.
If you can photograph any white stuff and the general poor state of it in good daylight close-up, email them pictures, that helps prove your point.
I’ve always taken pics and sent to supplier - ripped bags of haylage from nails on pallet, to mouldy hay delivered - then I get my refund or a credit on my account with them, depending on supplier.

Sometimes phoning them and having a chat yields more understanding and a better resolve, the human to human voice empathy vibe - but email gets everything in writing so I do prefer that with more tricky suppliers, especially if small claims court is a route you might take.
As you’re a returning customer, they should know this, but state it to remind them, and also that you know other horse women who buy from them, and usually “we all receive great hay” - this gives you leverage as they may think if they treat you badly with this batch they may lose other customers in your equine circle.
Also, as you’ve said here, I’d be reiterating that 300 quid is a lot to you, as for anyone, for feed you can’t feed.

Look up current small claims court online forms and costs - you could take that route - usually stating to suppliers they leave no choice but a small claims route to get a refund, they usually give a refund. But sometimes it requires them to receive the small claims against them paperwork to nudge them further to refund. I think that costs around £50? Do check that.
Animal feeds laws do state all feeds should be in a suitable condition to feed and free of toxic contaminants - of which mould would be considered a contaminant. If you wanted to lean heavily on feed laws that is worth mentioning. The UK feed laws were the same as EU ones, and I doubt since brexit they have changed the mainframe laws much, pertaining to condition of animal feeds. The laws are hardly going to state to feed mouldy hay, and force the animals even if they refuse! LoL
I had to lean on EU animal feeds laws once with a Latvian supplier to squeeze out a partial refund of hay where one batch was loaded with wormwood weed, and other noxious weeds. This was after receiving a confirmation email BEFORE ordering from them, to ask about weeds, and them stating there was none!

Or if you think you could sell the hay to a cattle farmer….but I doubt they’d pay the price you have, so you likely would lose out financially.

I’m so wary of bank transfers now, and any company that insists on bank transfer only. We almost lost 5K to a bank transfer for a tractor supplier in wales who was running a dodgy outfit, which only became clear after we got stung by them not delivering the tractor, and doing some deep internet sleuthing of his changed company names.
We had to start the ball rolling on a small claims - which did then get the majority..bar 500 quid refunded for ‘works done on the tractor for us’!!…we just swallowed the 500 loss as the entire ordeal was draw out and stressful already.
Trading standards UK and the police were informed, but they did nothing, except refer to the other to ‘do something’!
Having a credit card just for large online purchases, helps give us the buyer some power via chargeback if the goods received really are not what was advertised or expected.

But hopefully you won’t have to go that far - you might find the bales at the other end of the pallet are ok. Then it’s a case of checking where the ‘dodgy’ bales start. Usually we can get 10 small squares from 1 average round, as a really rough number. So the top 10 bales on your pallet are likely the same.
It’s worth checking the bottom bales as I have had mixed cuts on 1 pallet of small squares bagged.
If you do have some nicer bales below, try to work out how many rank bales you have and request a refund for those, with pics.
The fact your friend also got a pallet from them and it’s lovely, suggests a rank bale used. You could well have some nice bales in there.

Fingers crossed for you it is resolved in your favour!
 
meleeka said:
How disappointing. I'd be writing a letter, formally requesting a refund/replacement and stating what's wrong with the hay, within the next 7 days in order to avoid further action being taken through the Small Claims Court. Hopefully they'll oblige, but if not I would carry out my threat, it's not expensive to do.
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You can do a chargeback through your bank if you paid with a debit card, if you used a credit card they will take over the whole thing. Just seen it was bank transfer. Ring your bank for a chat. And send the formal rejection letter by email now. Youve got 14days to reject without reason. After that it becomes a bit more work.
 
Was your friend's hay from same batch? If so, take a sample of your hay and a sampl eof hers, put them into two separate labelled polythene bags, then post them to the hay supplier with a letter saying that you enclose evidence that your first bale is defintiely off/mouldy and you'll need a refund in due course for it. And that you will now open another bale and hope that is on a par with your friend's hay. If so, then when you come to order your next lot from him, you'll just need a credit for that one bale. If you open your next bale and find that's also mouldy, and you open another and that's also mouldy, etc, then you'll need a credit for every bale you open which is mouldy. Send it recorded delivery.
 
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