not saying a thing.....

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Cragrat

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.... but this page has an 'interesting' post at the moment :(

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The AI pic of the horse in a car wash?

Although I worked on a yard once where, when the hunt horses got back from the day, they were all jet-washed off 🙈 they actually seemed to really enjoy it and none of them objected, I imagine it was like a deep tissue massage after a days hunting!

*edit* spotted the wrong post!
 
Briefly unblocked them to see what's what. It's a horse with such painful feet it won't stand on 3 for foot care so they put it in the sling and lift the whole animal off the ground.
Animal has elevated insulin, 'active infection in feet' & rotational laminitis. (But of course he's got rotation because of trim, not metabolic issues).

I'm blocking them again now for my own sanity! I find many of their posts really distressing
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Briefly unblocked them to see what's what. It's a horse with such painful feet it won't stand on 3 for foot care so they put it in the sling and lift the whole animal off the ground.
Animal has elevated insulin, 'active infection in feet' & rotational laminitis. (But of course he's got rotation because of trim, not metabolic issues).

I'm blocking them again now for my own sanity! I find many of their posts really distressing
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And it has been in that state for 3 months........
 
I don’t know how I feel about this stuff really. They do show horses much more comfortable and happy further down the line and I agree that reducing chronic stress by getting horses into an environment where they have access to friends and a feeling of more freedom/needs met etc really helps with recovery. Not going to comment on the trim side of things as I don’t know enough about it.

I appreciate the horse in the post is in an extremely bad way, but I’m trying to think if that was my horse and there was a chance he could go on to have a comfortable, happy life I’d want to give him every chance? I’m just wondering if people think this is cruel because they think this horse will never recover, or they just think there’s a time limit on suffering regardless of whether the horse will be well at the end or not?
 
FieldOrnaments said:
I didn't look very far down and I'm not going to dig into it further. They're unhinged and grotesquely cruel
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Please can someone who has more local knowledge than just random people on here report this to the rspca. It looks like cruelty. Or if they know tge vets the livery place uses ckntact them and tell them about it.
 
Sanversera said:
Please can someone who has more local knowledge than just random people on here report this to the rspca. It looks like cruelty. Or if they know tge vets the livery place uses ckntact them and tell them about it.
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From what I’ve read their vet is involved in this case, I believe the horse is on targeted antibiotics
 
I think putting any horse through an extensive and extended rehab for laminitis where it cannot properly weight bare is cruel even if it might recover eventually. There’s some truly awful cases out there historically that have done so but I feel the same about them
 
AWinter said:
I don’t know how I feel about this stuff really. They do show horses much more comfortable and happy further down the line and I agree that reducing chronic stress by getting horses into an environment where they have access to friends and a feeling of more freedom/needs met etc really helps with recovery. Not going to comment on the trim side of things as I don’t know enough about it.

I appreciate the horse in the post is in an extremely bad way, but I’m trying to think if that was my horse and there was a chance he could go on to have a comfortable, happy life I’d want to give him every chance? I’m just wondering if people think this is cruel because they think this horse will never recover, or they just think there’s a time limit on suffering regardless of whether the horse will be well at the end or not?
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I agree it's a very difficult call to make but a horse that has been reluctant to take more than a few shuffled steps due to pain for 3 months must be suffering excruciatingly, especially given how stoic horses are with pain. They have said it is on pain management from the vets but I would not be happy with a horse being that uncomfortable and would want to know what more could be done to manage pain. Plus their refusal to use any medical intervention to reduce insulin levels and speed up recovery.

I also wonder having seen reports from owners who's horses have been there on rehab, how many 'failed' cases there are that are not publicised unlike the success stories that are put on FB. It seems from these reports that if the horse doesn't improve it is sent back to it's owner with a "well, we tried" where they are inevitably PTS anyway.
 
AWinter said:
I don’t know how I feel about this stuff really. They do show horses much more comfortable and happy further down the line and I agree that reducing chronic stress by getting horses into an environment where they have access to friends and a feeling of more freedom/needs met etc really helps with recovery. Not going to comment on the trim side of things as I don’t know enough about it.

I appreciate the horse in the post is in an extremely bad way, but I’m trying to think if that was my horse and there was a chance he could go on to have a comfortable, happy life I’d want to give him every chance? I’m just wondering if people think this is cruel because they think this horse will never recover, or they just think there’s a time limit on suffering regardless of whether the horse will be well at the end or not?
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Don’t know anything other than this photograph - so is the cruelty concern because some weird trimming has led to (presumably?) laminitis?
Or because the pony is in a sling to take pressure off his feet?
Slinging up bad founder cases; or cows that temporarily cannot support themselves after bad calving, or whatever; is not of itself cruel, and may be necessary to their recovery. Although do need to keep a close eye out for pressure sores.
I know one Sec D stallion foundered all round after succumbing to new strain flu, spent nearly a year on recovery and rehab at Laminitis Clinic, including time suspended whist his new hooves were growing. Full recovery, very expensive, probably wouldn’t have done it myself, but definitely necessary to that lovely animal’s survival.
 
ester said:
I think putting any horse through an extensive and extended rehab for laminitis where it cannot properly weight bare is cruel even if it might recover eventually. There’s some truly awful cases out there historically that have done so but I feel the same about them
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I tend to agree with this, mainly because of the psychological stress that I suspect must be extreme, but physically slinging large animals per se is not cruel.
 
ester said:
I think putting any horse through an extensive and extended rehab for laminitis where it cannot properly weight bare is cruel even if it might recover eventually. There’s some truly awful cases out there historically that have done so but I feel the same about them
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Mine was put to sleep immeidately once his pedal bone reached his sole. End of. Hed have been gone the second he got a secondary infection never mind the rest of it.
 
dorsetladette said:
If the poor thing is in that state - how on earth did he travel there?

I've just seen the post where he's having 2 lots of antibiotic injected daily. I haven't seen any mention of pain relief (although I could be wrong), I'm hoping the buckets of feed contain something.
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There is a post further down that says he's on pain relief from the vet but I would assume only an oral NSAID as nothing is ever seen to be administered intravenously. He's also routinely sedated for every foot trim and dressing change as they are unable to treat him otherwise.
 
I'm Dun said:
Mine was put to sleep immeidately once his pedal bone reached his sole. End of. Hed have been gone the second he got a secondary infection never mind the rest of it.
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I had a similar (ish) situation with my horse, though it wasn't laminitis. He was in excruciating and progressing pain with the condition he had, though there 'was' a chance of recovery. He had been in intensive care at at a university hospital for 4 days, on an IV of a cocktail of opioid painkillers to keep him stable. On day 4 the vet simply turned to me and said "we can't manage his pain any more" and I knew exactly what she was saying, he was PTS 20 minutes later. There was a very slim chance he could have recovered and I do question myself, but at the same time if he hadn't recovered and I'd allowed him to suffer in agony for the remaining time I'd never have forgiven myself.
 
KikiDee said:
There is a post further down that says he's on pain relief from the vet but I would assume only an oral NSAID as nothing is ever seen to be administered intravenously. He's also routinely sedated for every foot trim and dressing change as they are unable to treat him otherwise.
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He must be off his t#ts!!

Sorry - no wonder he lays down a lot with all that running round his body.

I'm Dun said:
It wasnt necessary for him to survive at all. And doing all that was obscene. I find more and more that vets will not call time and prolong suffering massively.
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I had a shetland pony as a child who had spent a very long time (at huge expense) in liverpool uni hospital in the late 80's after being used as a companion to retired thoroughbreds (think old dairy grazing) and fed sugar lumps by the handful by her unknowing owner over the garden fence. From what I remember being told she had her hoof wall removed and her soles supported with some sort of metal frame work and plate which they called calipers on both front feet (I never saw this). It sounds horrible and painful and I can imagine she was in a stable without being able to see out as she was only 41inchs tall. She must of had a horrible time. Money was no object to the owners at the time, but I don't think her welfare or quality of life was taken into account by either the owner or the vets at the hospital. I think she was a bit of an experiment now looking back as an adult.

I'd never put a horse of mine through anything that painful.
 
I'm Dun said:
It wasnt necessary for him to survive at all. And doing all that was obscene. I find more and more that vets will not call time and prolong suffering massively.
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Thirty plus years ago, actually.
Probably correct, in that the treatment cost his owners the price of a small semi, with never a prayer or thought of recouping that, so it was not strictly necessary that the stallion should survive, but it was absolutely necessary to his survival, as part of the treatment which included industrial quantities of analgesic.
Getting weight off their feet does make a big difference to laminitis pain experienced, hence so many cases lie themselves down.
 
AWinter said:
I don’t know how I feel about this stuff really. They do show horses much more comfortable and happy further down the line and I agree that reducing chronic stress by getting horses into an environment where they have access to friends and a feeling of more freedom/needs met etc really helps with recovery. Not going to comment on the trim side of things as I don’t know enough about it.

I appreciate the horse in the post is in an extremely bad way, but I’m trying to think if that was my horse and there was a chance he could go on to have a comfortable, happy life I’d want to give him every chance? I’m just wondering if people think this is cruel because they think this horse will never recover, or they just think there’s a time limit on suffering regardless of whether the horse will be well at the end or not?
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For me, this. The likely outcome of a treatment is almost a secondary consideration after the extent/duration of a treatment.

The horse is not able to understand that if they suffer through this, they will have an amazing life afterwards. The horse is not able to look back from its amazing life at the suffering they went through and think "yeah, it was all worth it". They just know that they are suffering when they are suffering.
 
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