Not suitable for a novice - what's that mean these days?

[Jambarissa]

If you put that in an ad what would you mean? To me
Beginner = not balanced and in control at all paces
Novice = balanced and in control at all paces and can deal with any small problems eg sit occasional buck or spook or stop if horse becomes strong
Intermediate = good rider who can improve the horses way of going
Advanced = better n/a for purpose of post

Looking to buy a nice hacking cob. I want him to be suitable for friends and family who've ridden competently in the past to use to join me for the occasional hack. To me these people would be 'competent novices' due to being a bit rusty.

Practically every ad I've seen says ' not suitable for a novice'. I'm sure that used to be code for 'a bit mental'.

Does novice really mean beginner these days? Should I just ignore and go and judge for myself? It's all so time consuming, I don't want to waste my time or the sellers.

 

[alibali]

I think it might mean something slightly different to everyone! It could also be used for lots of different reasons, green horses needing education, spicy horses needing more experienced riders, something with a wee cheeky buck or shoulder drop needing a stronger seat, sensitive but well behaved horses needing subtle riding, nervous but well behaved horses needing confidence from their rider. The list is endless really!

I think there's no substitute for actually talking to a seller about their horse. Hopefully you should be able to get a sense of what may or may not be suitable before you travel. That was the problem with the market being so red hot after COVID. Buyers didn't have time to do that research and sellers didn't have to engage so much with potential buyers as horses were selling so fast. Hopefully now things have calmed down a bit people have more time to consider their purchase/sales, less rushed decisions and that can only be good for both purchasers and horses. The wrong horse in the wrong home is only going to make everyone miserable!

Good luck, I thought I would love horse shopping but actually I hated it!

 

[blitznbobs]

That the people cant write a good advert.

it is such a variable feast from ‘i dont want a numpty to buy my very safe best friend ‘ to ‘he’s got very few screws that are fastened correctly’

Its a completely useless thing to say but would stop me going to see (ive ridden for over 40 years) unless they expressly say why the horse is not for novices- making the not for novice statement irrelevant. Equally lots of riders dont know their own ability these days.

 

[gallopingby]

I think you have to phone up and ask the re,evant questions, assuming that your interpretation of novice isn’t a beginner. I wouldn’t be very keen to sell to a novice because l would prefer a horse l had put a lot of work into to continue at the same level with a chance of improving / going further if appropriate. If l had a well established older horse l may consider things differently should the need to sell arise. If l was buying l would want to know exactly why the seller considered the horse wasn’t suitable for a novice. Sometimes it can be a way of attempting to avoid the numerous time wasters/ daydreamers, but then l don’t reply to texts if l have stated in an ad that texts will be ignored.

 

[canteron]

I think it means ‘no come back if it goes wrong’ in a risk adverse socialety - basically no horse can be guaranteed to be sold to a novice as you get sensible novices and not so sensible.

 

[Barton Bounty]

As a lot of others have said.. it can mean different things to a lot of people.

I would class a novice as someone who has learned the very basics.

 

[Frano]

If I saw that in an advert ,I would take it to mean can be a handful/ bad behaviour. It always puts me off.

 

[splashgirl45]

I think it’s put on ads more these days so the seller doesn’t get a come back if the horse is badly behaved, it doesn’t mean anything but if I saw it on an ad I now wouldn’t even go to see it. I have ridden for over 60 years, jumped up to 1 metre successfully BUT am old and won’t bounce (as I found out recently) like I used to so safety is most important to me even though I wouldn’t class myself as a novice rider due to experience of riding many different horses and some very quirky ones with no problems .

 

[Orangehorse]

I think it’s put on ads more these days so the seller doesn’t get a come back if the horse is badly behaved, it doesn’t mean anything but if I saw it on an ad I now wouldn’t even go to see it. I have ridden for over 60 years, jumped up to 1 metre successfully BUT am old and won’t bounce (as I found out recently) like I used to so safety is most important to me even though I wouldn’t class myself as a novice rider due to experience of riding many different horses and some very quirky ones with no problems .

Totally agree with this.
I think "not suitable for a Novice" means that the horse needs more education, or is sometimes a handful and would need someone with a good deal of riding experience to know what to do. I have had horses who never used to do anything to get rid of me, no bucking, napping or anything like that, but could become very excitable in some circumstances, a bit cheeky, or pull hard. Were not, in other words, suitable for a novice!

 

[Peglo]

I usually assume it to mean not for a first time owner. I’ve seen a few more ads recently explaining why. Things like needs correct handling on the ground, not the most confident out hacking or needs to further his education. I’m sure it has different meanings to everyone so it would be helpful if everyone explained themselves better.

 

[criso]

And then if you do ask a seller what they meant, they take it to mean you are a novice and not suitable.

 

[Glitter's fun]

It means very little except that the seller hasn't thought about the advert much.
If the horse is young, say so. If it gets strong in company, say so. If you want to avoid talking to day dreamers, it isn't going to work anyway* and may put off the buyers you do want to talk to**.

Sorry, @Jambarissa , You just have to phone a lot of people. (& keep notes so you don't get & forget which was the one you thought was a bit xyz...!)



TLDR
*Last week I talked to a teenager who told me he had 'learned to ride to a high level'. I was a bit surprised because he was maybe 15 or 16 & I'd not heard his name spoken locally so I questioned a bit more. Turns out his RS gives out gold stars for the level you reached and he had 3 stars for mastering canter- that being the highest level there. He doesn't ride now because he can tick it off as done. Nice lad who would definitely not class himself as a novice if he were to look for a horse.

**I have been riding for many years but I just scroll past adverts with 'not suitable for novice' because i presume there's a vice that they are going to blame on my riding. I also avoid a local dealer who has 'novice, RDA, riding school' on every single advert. Rightly or wrongly the assumption is they can't all be that quiet so he must be dishonest .

 

[Sossigpoker]

I don't think people put novice in adverts to indicate anything other than beginner , unless of course talking about dressage or eventing levels

For me that means that the horse can he sharp or can't cope with unclear/inconsistent aids.

In adverts I'd read it as either as above or a bit "spicy ". Trouble is most people exaggerate their own abilities and don't think they're novices when they are.

If it's a loan advert ,people also may use that phrase because they don't want their horse ruined by novices.

 

[webble]

I think there are more people buying a horse instead of going to a riding school these days and maybe dont have the experience needed for a first horse and so sellers feel the need to put it in an ad more and more

 

[Birker2020]

My interpretation would be that it was a little sharp or spooky, possibly due to a physical issue, possibly not. It would put me off straight away.

 

[Cortez]

In theory NO horse is suitable for an absolute beginner to have unsupervised since A. horses are alive and thus unpredictable, and B. a beginner should be at a riding school.

A novice should be a bit more clued up than a beginner, but would still need a borderline saintly horse to be secure riding unsupervised.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Looking to buy a nice hacking cob. I want him to be suitable for friends and family who've ridden competently in the past to use to join me for the occasional hack. To me these people would be 'competent novices' due to being a bit rusty.

Actually, that would make a good wanted ad. !

 

[Melody Grey]

Always ask the vendor why not a novice ride- their response can be very illuminating!!

 

[Barton Bounty]

If I were to advertise BB he would be ‘NOT A NOVICE RIDE’ for the sheer fact he can be unpredictable.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Can mean anything from a little bit nervous/spooky hacking alone or up to will buck you off if your not careful.
Everyone will have there own interpretation of this.
Ive sold a few horses and always put not suitable for novices in the ad, mainly just due to being young sport types and very green but, you still get lots of inquiries from people who have sat on a horse once 10 years ago but say they are experienced.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Neither of mine are for novice riders they can be sharp and i have found if your not riding at a certain level, neither of mine will move so if someone can't get them to trot I know they are not that experienced and they are not lazy I think they just think oh well I get away with doing nowt.

Both are ok on lead rein I've put kids on them and they will follow someone all day quite happily.

So I think it totally depends in the horse some other horses would be the opposite and take advantage and p off with a less experienced rider.

 

[Sossigpoker]

In theory NO horse is suitable for an absolute beginner to have unsupervised since A. horses are alive and thus unpredictable, and B. a beginner should be at a riding school.

A novice should be a bit more clued up than a beginner, but would still need a borderline saintly horse to be secure riding unsupervised.

I agree. When you see posts looking for a horse suitable for a "nervous novice " I'm so tempted to reply with "a rocking horse ".

 

[abbijay]

The baby clydesdale's advert said he was "not suitable for a nervous or novice rider" which I always thought would be a red line for me buying a horse. But I had already survived the rearing and reversing shire horse so I figured that this was more about the fact he was just very green (4yo lightly hacked) and went to have a look. On meeting the lovely family, and reading between the lines, he had been bought as a just backed 3yo for a couple to learn on and hack out with their competent daughter and I got the impression he had scared someone off. He certainly tested me on a couple of occasions, it wasn't nasty but I could see how it would scare the bejeezus out of a first time owner.
I think it is a serious catch all statement that covers a total range of scenarios from borderline dangerous to not a blackpool donkey.

 

[maya2008]

To me it is exactly what the OP says. A novice can ride a well behaved horse. The kind of person a BHS AI (now stage 3) instructor is trained to teach.

My daughter is a novice. She can ride and jump a trained pony, in the arena, in an open field or out hacking, she can handle a little bit of sass and a mild nap.

My son is heading in the intermediate direction. He can deal with an adult pony napping/running off/spooking and improve it over time until a less competent rider is able to ride it easily. He can also train a young pony under supervision.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I take it as saying more about the horse being sold than the type of rider required. Although I would probably put not suitable for a beginner for ANY horse I have ever sold, simply because you then get inundated with children and adults that have had a weekly riding lesson at a RS for a year and now consider themselves fit for the Olympics.

As a much older and now somewhat physically challenged rider, if I ever do get fit enough to ride again I won't even bother to go and look at a horse that is described as not fit for a novice. I might have all the mileage and experience under my belt, but 3 years out of riding with two new hips is not exactly the sort of person a seller would want riding on a well schooled competitive type of horse they had put time and money into.

 

[Abacus]

I think your definition of novice above might be a touch on the generous side. I would expect that they might occasionally be unbalanced, and definitely in need of more tuition. And the problems you describe wouldn’t definitely unseat them but might.

In an ad I would tolerate it if used to describe a very young horse, because one of those should almost never be sold to a novice. I’d also accept it as fair advertising if they gave a good and honest sounding reason (spooky, nappy, downright dangerous…). It’s not necessarily code for ‘mental’ but you’d like to know what’s the real reason. I would also sympathise with someone who has a good but sensitive horse that they don’t want to sell to a novice rider (as per my definition).

Perhaps the problem is more that there are many buyers who don’t think of themselves as novice…

 

[Boughtabay]

To me it is exactly what the OP says. A novice can ride a well behaved horse. The kind of person a BHS AI (now stage 3) instructor is trained to teach.

My daughter is a novice. She can ride and jump a trained pony, in the arena, in an open field or out hacking, she can handle a little bit of sass and a mild nap.

My son is heading in the intermediate direction. He can deal with an adult pony napping/running off/spooking and improve it over time until a less competent rider is able to ride it easily. He can also train a young pony under supervision.

This is exactly what I’d expect if a definition was ever standardised in the context of horses a pony suitable for a novice should know it’s job ridden and on the ground and tries to answer the questions asked as honestly as it can. Any horse described as not for a novice, to me would mean “the horse goes perfectly well for me but if you don’t know what you’re doing it could go backwards/become sharp/take the piss a bit”. Anything that naps, bucks, runs off etc. has a vice and obviously isn’t a novice ride BUT I would expect that to be disclosed rather than covered by the “not a novice ride” label.

 

[SO1]

When I was looking I avoided anything that mentioned not novice ride. I had Homey for 15 years and shared a horse before and had numerous ponies as a child and have ridden for over 40 years but I am not a massively brave rider.

Not novice ride to me = you need to be confident and brave as horse may be challenging.

 

[Nari]

In the past I tended to view it as code for rude or nutter and would pass it by. Nowadays it feels more likely that it's something that doesn't take half a dozen hefty kicks to fall into a jog and has on occasion been known to look at something.

When I see not a novice ride on an ad for a competition or high end RC horse I do still wonder, after all that sort of horse shouldn't be attracting novices to begin with.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I would have probably classed myself as intermediate when I was riding

I'd have said my Welsh D was probably not for novices, he used to be in an rs but people flapping and almost tip toeing round him confirmed his suspicions the world was out to get him so he'd get worse e.g. if they didn't just put the reins over his head/took too long around his head (he was headshy) he'd just get hysterical about it and wave his head around more/pull back/spin round them

So I brought him (I'd just lead him round with them already over why cause a fight you don't need)

However the "not for a novice" for him would have covered the spookiness. I eventually stopped jumping him because I started to get the "what ifs" which of course he picked up on. When I used to jump him, he'd notice if a jump changed. Fillers were going to eat him. Cracking scope and on a going day he'd rarely have a pole down because he was careful due to the spookiness (we didn't compete) but you had to give him the confidence otherwise you confirmed he was right to be scared of the jump. I was always a bit windy at the best of times about jumping so wasn't necessarily the best person to do that but we got along ok for a few years until the what ifs.

In the last couple of years, we mainly hacked and schooled, and again the "not a for novices" would have covered the spooking. Now I know some novices can sit a spook but it's the fact it was spooking at something you didn't expect! He'd go past fly tipping with a bit of snorting/stopping to look. Different colour sand/grass/mud on the road he'd scream to a near halt to snort at it, sometimes with a slight shoulder drop. Once we got a full 180 degree spin. I just sort of went with him, however could I do that on a strange horse probably not. Once he went sweetly through a lesson was walking on a long rein at the end and we spook at a dry patch of sand that had appeared through the wet stuff! (Probably uncovered by him!!)

There was no bucking/rearing/nastiness it was the Welsh randomness. I never let anyone else on him bar my instructor one lesson he was being a complete a**e because in this day of compensation culture it only takes him looking at a leaf funny and decanting them and youre potentially looking at a claim. He was actually quite lazy bar at the fields and on sponsored rides

Also to school, you'd have to "warm him up" into an outline for about 20 minutes. I hate when I see people being taught to do it by sawing on the reins. If you did it on him he'd just set completely and ignore it

As an aside I won't get another horse but if I did would be another whod avoid one deemed not for novices as it could cover a multitude of sins including several I wouldn't touch with a barge pole!