not sure if I am being cruel to my pony/

IMO people are being a bit harsh on the OP.

She said that this was the advice she was given by a qualified professional! How often do we see posts where people have to ride their horse until lame etc. The fact that she has posted this demonstrates that she knows that what she is doing is horrible for her horse. Sometimes you have to try things out for a while to see the effect!

OP - I think that you should definatly put shoes on asap. You have given him a chance. I did the same with Monty for a couple of months for various other medical reasons but it just didn't work with him (bloody crap TB feet!). I'm sure lots of people on here have great advice about experience of ringbone.

Good Luck!
grin.gif
 
Well actually, the advice she was given by a qualified professional - her farrier - was not to take the shoes off.

We have no idea about the qualifications/professional status of her 'barefoot trimmer' - but the results would appear to be speaking for themselves
frown.gif


My farrier took my old boys shoes off when we retired him at 33. He had worn shoes for nearly 30 years. He was a bit footy on the stones to and from the yard for a few days, then he was fine. I would never have left him without shoes if he wasn't.
A
 
[ QUOTE ]
QR

Sadly not all barefoot trimmers are as good as each other, and they do not have to study and qualify for as long as farriers. I would ditch your barefoot trimmer and find another farrier, one who isn't allergic to barefoot horses, to give you their opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with this. The pony obviously isnt happy. Speak to your farrier - he may not be anti barefoot, just anti barefoot for YOUR horse. I think you need to get the shoes back on.
 
I'm a horses for courses type person. No strong views for or against barefoot/shod.

We have three neds. One shoes all round - can't bear the stones! One shod in front only due to the stones, but perfectly happy bare behind. One bare as the day he was born: farrier, who doesn't mind either way, says he has technically excellent feet and they're as hard as rock and don't need shoes.

So, do whatever each horse needs I say. In your horse's case I think you need to get a decent farrier to sort out horse's feet (heels etc.), and get the shoes back on.
 
You are only supposed to exercise within the horses comfort zone though - you'll not get an improvement forcing him to walk on surfaces he is clearly not happy on. Poor fella. My horse is barefoot, trimmed by a great trimmer and we're happy but in your situation and given the winter turnout I'd be looking at shoes ASAP.
 
Yeah

I think shoes will be going back on ASAP.

I did read some of the posts and wince with guilt, I am not a fluffy natural tree hugger and the treeless/ironfree hrose brigade leave me cold to be honest.

The shoes came of for a reason . That is, to reduce concussion forces. However I must say that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE POSTS SUMS UP WHAT I FEEL I HAVE MADE MY POOR PONY GO THROUGH. I feel terrible about it, my trimmer was trained by someone who I can remember used to post about all the pain their horses went through for a year until rideable, I really really dont think I can do that to my pony.

If I was on nice grass land with grass tracks I think he would be fine round here we class tarmac roads as a nice surface to give the horses a break from our hard and stony bridlepaths !

I am glad I posted the thread here. the otehr forums I frequent sort of have a collective 'you wil go without shoes and a tree 'vibe to them!

P.S.Arabelle - I dont think I actually said that the farrier said not to remove my ponys shoes, just that he is anti barefoot.
 
HO - welcome to the land of sanity, hugs and hot chocolates. I needless to say don't speak for all re. the hugs and hot choccies (I have my own form of fluffiness, that given the hard world I work in, I enjoy escaping to
grin.gif
), but you took a course of action, you realised it wasn't right, you investigated and now you're heading the right way.

gawd that probably sounds really pompous, but having typed it all out i can't be ar$ed to delete it all
cool.gif
.
 
smile.gif


Your trimmer sounds like a nutter - no-one in their right mind (and certainly no decent trimmer I know) would think it is in any way acceptable for a horse to be put through a year of pain in the name of staying barefoot! No horse should be in pain as a result of going barefoot. The whole you will be barefoot and there is no other solution brigade give barefooters a bad name and demosntrate an utter lack of understanding IMO
mad.gif
 
Hi OP,

It does sound like your boy isn't happy at all. Due to Henry being footy in the spring/summer, I've had him shod from March to October for about 4 years, now. Last year this was scuppered due to LGL (he was rather fat) and he was barefoot from July until Spring this year. He walked a bit odd in July this year (although he wasn't fat, but had put on weight), so the farrier took the shoes off again. I was intending to try new hoof boots and bought some accordingly, but although he will walk in them, he won't do more than a feeble trot and rarely canters even on tracks I know he would gallop on normally. It's not a foot issue, he will happily canter barefoot on hard grass-covered ground and no reaction to pressure testing on the soles. He just hates the gaiters on the epics and whilst at first I LOVED the Cavallos, with prolonged use he had bald heels and was reluctant to stride out. I *could* try new boots, but given that he normally has a shoes off period in the winter anyway, I'm reluctant to waste what nice riding weather I have. He loves hacking out, normally, but in boots he trudges along. He did bounce along in the boots with pads for a while, but then the Cavallos started rubbing, so the honeymoon period ended!

Upshot is that I have the farrier coming out tomorrow morning. I have a pony who is perfectly pasture sound, will walk great on smooth tarmac, but has no confidence over stones of any sort any more. I could spend the next few years conditioning his feet, but I know a depressed pony when I see one and I know he's happy shod. It's unusual that in your case winter is worse, but your grazing is an issue. It might work in your favour that he 're-programmes' his brain to the sensation of rough ground, but you know what? He's 19. You don't know how long you have left to actually ride him, or if he will be comfortable in his winter field. Henry is 17 and his metabolism is changing accordingly (I guess this is why the grass now affects him more, as he shows no Cushingoid signs and when off the grass he's absolutely fine and dandy!).

Your trimmer SHOULD have told you that until your horse is fine on smooth surfaces to avoid rougher ones. Ali2 is right to suggest your trimmer is a nutter. Did they not suggest walking in boots with pads? Or even pads strapped to his hooves? Henry was actually ridden barefoot for nearly 4 years, but most of that was smooth tarmac or softer ground. It was when i moved that I started with problems. It sounds like you have similar riding to me. Very stony tracks and tarmac (only I don't even have smooth tarmac - this part of Surrey is not known for its excellent road surface...).

If you're worried about concussion, but want to solve the ground issue, consider one of the sythetic shoes, such as imprints, eponas, or mustad glue ons. Best of both worlds, from your perspective!
 
QR

I'm glad to read that his shoes will be going back on ASAP.

My mare used to have terrible feet and threw shoes constantly and my farrier suggested that she might be better off barefoot for a few months to allow her feet to grow a bit better and enable her to keep her shoes on. She also has joint problems, so like your boy it was to reduce concussion as well.

Unfortunately she was very footsore without shoes, even in the field, any sort of exercise was out of the question so the shoes went straight back on. Now I stick with a foot supplement, hoof moisturiser and very regular farriery, and touch wood no problems. But I know that going shoeless will never be an option, even if she were retired.

The important thing to remember is that not every horse can cope with being barefoot, and some will never adapt to it no matter how long you persevere for. The kindest thing you can do is pop his shoes back on, and I'm sure he'll soon feel a whole lot better.
 
Hi all,

Maybe it's just me, but 'barefoot' just means 'working unshod'?

Maybe, again, it's just me, but 'working unshod' doesn't suit some horses?

Maybe, again, some cobbier types can work in conditions where a TB would throw his/her hands up?

Hackedoff's initial post on this thread said that her horse was holding one leg up, while another was bleeding from the foot...

Let's return to topic, please,
+ comment on initial, very serious problem, to which Hackedoff + her horse want an answer?

Mine is - get a bloody good farrier asap to put some shoes on. Poor horse will need remedial by now, i think.
Feel free to argue, anyone! (From what i hear, it's sounding like a rescue case)

Again, it's easy to get a wrong impression from a forum, so i welcome comments from other forum friends, while recommending that Hackedoff's pony needs professional care ASAP, as it seems to me.

All bests, BS
 
Hi, my farrier (and I stress FARRIER here, he is fully qualified) is also fully trained in managing unshod horses. He is a believer in taking shoes off for the good of the horse and the hoof and has undertaken a lot of study/training into how to manage the transition process. This is not to say he won't put shoes on, he shoes lots of ponies, but if you want to go barefoot he will talk you through the process with a great deal of knowledge and technical experties.

When I went barefoot with my pony, he told me exactly what to expect, how long it would take for feet to 'adjust', what soreness would be expected and normal and what sort of thing would require him to come out and check. Some of the advice that stuck with me was

a) horse likely to be sound for around 3 weeks then go 'footsore' (note, NOT lame, just footy). This footiness should last for around 2 to 4 weeks

b) horse should still be worked gently on the roads as long as sound (i.e. ok if horse is footy, not if horse is lame) as this would stimulate growth however to monitor feet closely

c) horse to be rechecked and trimmed initially after 6 weeks during adjustment period. Later this would change to 12 weeks once feet adjusted.

d) horse may have trouble with braking on grass initially as unshod horses slow down differently to shod horses. So no galloping downhill or skidding round muddly fields until he had had plenty of time to find his new style!

e) Absessess are not uncommon in early stages due to increased blood supply to the hoof.

To me what you are experiencing sounds very extreme. I would not be happy if my horse was bleeding/holding leg up etc as this does not match with anything I was told was 'normal' for the adjustment period.

I think you need to find an expert farrier ASAP. I am not a fan of barefoot trimmers as I would fear that they were a bit evangelical in their approach and also I like the security of knowing that the person handling my horse's feet is a qualified farrier. I am a fan of barefoot horses after a sucessful conversion with mine has saved me loads of money and also I think it is better for the horse's foot. But if your horse is suffering as much as it sounds he is, you need to get some on the spot advice ASAP. Good luck
 
To be fair the horse had shoes on for 19 years, its going to take a lot longer than 2 months to adjust to being barefoot and you cannot take the horse straight out on hard stoney ground and not expect it to be footsore. Perhaps you did too much too soon, hopefully when the shoes go back on your horse will be back to its old self.
 
thanks all, the main problem I have had with deciding what to do is that the advice I was given was as follows:

expect him to be foot sore or footy on hard ground /stones for anything from 3 months to possibly upto a year as new hoof grows through,

exercise him on hard ground in hand with front boots on to stimulate hoof growth

keep him turned out.

So similiar to what southwestwhippet has been told ( thank you SWS as well as I read your post with interest).

The problem I have as one of the earlier posters has mentioned is that mine does not like the boots at all. The exercise he was doing last week was in hand at a walk for less than 1/8 mile on tarmac road with little stone chips on it (the tarmac round our lames is crumbling apart) and grass track and he went very lame behind due to standing on a stone.

Brandy snap my pony IS having proffessional care from a barefoot trimmer who has trimmed his hoofs twice in the last 6 to 8 weeks. He is very far from a rescue case as to be that in my opinion would involve some one either neglecting on purpose or through ignorance where, hardly applies to some one taking proffessional guidance and seeking second opinions.

I d love to blame this on him having thoroughbred feet but hes a welsh Cob!!!!

I discussed this all with the yard manager yesterday as the problem I have is current blacksmith is anti no shoes, trimmer is anti shoes and vets seem more interested in what ever can be treated under insurance which I am cynical enough to think doesnt eqaul what is best for my horse.

her blacksmith shoes some horses on the yard and trims hers as he is unshod. We will leave my pony in tomorrow and she will ask her blacksmith for an unbiased opinion on whether pony should be shod or even simply trimmed differently.
 
The blacksmith checked my pony yesterday. The good and suprising news is that he could find no signs of bruising , sore feet or tenderness. He said he wouldnt be able to put shoes back on at the moment as his hoofs are now so badly chipped that they need to be retrimmed, grown and then shod.

In his view some horses simply dont cope with going unshod if used to shoes or with problems that shoes assist such as low heels. He said that with no shoes around here if he feels stones then unshod will be worse but shoeing will not stop him feeling some stones.

He also commented that if I want to ride for more than a few minutes he doubted ponies hoofs would cope without shoes.

if I did want to stay barefoot (he trims several barefoot horses )he recommended old mac boots.

Im still dithering as if pony not actually fopot sore just concious of stones maybe barefoot is the way to go but ringing up barefoot trimmer to cancel her and then take it from there.
 
I would get some boots, HO. If his feet are so bad, you can't get shoes on, then definitely cancel your so-called trimmer. Henry was only trimmed two weeks ago, yet my farrier had no problems putting shoes on at the weekend. His nail holes had just grown out, so Henry's feet had the potential to be terribly chipped, but weren't. He complemented the shape of his feet again (as he always does - he knows that I trim them).

You could go the way of Easyboot gloves, as thesaddleryshop.co.uk have a fit kit, so you can be sure of sizing. NOW is the time to do that, as measurements need to be soon after a trim.

Good luck!
 
Hi Fran surrey, I have easyboot epics and pony isnt very keen on them at all. He is fine at walk and refuses to trot in them in hand or ridden. he will walk, trot ,canter in the field no problems.

I have cancelled the trimmer, felt quite bad as she was very proffessional about it but felt I hadnt given it enough time. IMHO 8 weeks and pony not happy is enough. Will be interested to see what the difference is with farriers trim v barefoot ladies.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah

I think shoes will be going back on ASAP.

I did read some of the posts and wince with guilt, I am not a fluffy natural tree hugger and the treeless/ironfree hrose brigade leave me cold to be honest.

The shoes came of for a reason . That is, to reduce concussion forces. However I must say that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE POSTS SUMS UP WHAT I FEEL I HAVE MADE MY POOR PONY GO THROUGH. I feel terrible about it, my trimmer was trained by someone who I can remember used to post about all the pain their horses went through for a year until rideable, I really really dont think I can do that to my pony.

If I was on nice grass land with grass tracks I think he would be fine round here we class tarmac roads as a nice surface to give the horses a break from our hard and stony bridlepaths !

I am glad I posted the thread here. the otehr forums I frequent sort of have a collective 'you wil go without shoes and a tree 'vibe to them!

P.S.Arabelle - I dont think I actually said that the farrier said not to remove my ponys shoes, just that he is anti barefoot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi again,

So, without you hearing my own farrier's comments about 'barefoot trimmers', which include a lot of 4-letter words!
shocked.gif
, may I please ask about the length of training your 'barefoot trimmer' received, together with insurance, + what made you decide on this method?

It seems to be unanimous in that we all agree that your horse has suffered, as a consequence, therefore, and that you realise now.

Thanks for being intelligent, + working it out, BS
 
Would your trimmer be Strasser trained by any chance? If so, there's one of your answer. Bargepoles...
I wouldn't leave a horse sore for that long, and I don't know any reputable barefoot trimmers that would do so either. If the problem only occurs when you take him out of the field I'd use hoof boots. The hoof can strengthen and harden while they are used and it spares your horse discomfort. You might even find that you don't need to put shoes back on.
What does your farrier plan to help with the ringbone?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Fran surrey, I have easyboot epics and pony isnt very keen on them at all. He is fine at walk and refuses to trot in them in hand or ridden. he will walk, trot ,canter in the field no problems.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have exactly the same problem with the epics!! Have a look at the other types. Henry was fine in Cavallos for a while (we even cantered), but they don't do a size small enough (they are generously sized) and after a while, they rubbed at the heels and he was worse than without boots! Half the problem is the fit and I'm told the fit-kit, combined with half sizes, improve this a lot with the Gloves. I must confess, though, that I'd had it with trying boots and I had him shod a week and a half ago!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would agree with this. The pony obviously isnt happy. Speak to your farrier - he may not be anti barefoot, just anti barefoot for YOUR horse. I think you need to get the shoes back on.

[/ QUOTE ]

precisely what i thought.

e.g. our farrier tells people on the yard if they dont need shoes / just fronts or when they need full sets.

If your farrier really is anti anything alternative to normal 4 shoes then change farriers - but make sure you talk to him properly about it, it may just be that he could forsee your horse would not cope without shoes due to hoof strength/shape etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top