Not sure if I have bought the right horse

NooNoo59

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Hi so after the permanent lameness of my cob I have bought a rising five welsh section d gelding. We have been doing ok but he has becoming increasingly bargy on the ground and we have had a couple of unpleasant experiences out hacking. On Monday I took him out to an in hand show just to show him new places and use to going out in the lorry. He was very impatient standing in the lorry, stamping and trying to rear even though he had plenty of hay and someone around all the time, then he spooked at something in the car park and just jumped straight through me and knocked me flat on my back. It hurt! A very dear friend was at the show and she has advised me that he is not right for me, for various reasons. The unpredictable behaviour of the welsh and he is a long and lean and she thinks I will be better with something I can sit into. I am in a bit of a pickle with all this now, should I have bought something so young but he seemed very chilled, I know about spring grass etc but this reaction on Monday was very extreme and at my age I cant be knocked over like that too often! Not sure whether to cut my losses and move him on now, or give him the benefit of the doubt and keep trying. Anyone been in a similar situation?
 

eggs

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I don't know how old you are but having been flattened by a horse in the past I know that it is quite an unnerving experience.

In my experience five years is often quite a tricky age. They are old enough to have been backed and done a little but not actually been asked to do a lot and then have got a bit stronger and above themselves.

Your comment that he is getting more bargy on the ground has raised a red flag for me as it does sound as though he is getting away with this behaviour and in all likelihood this is only going to escalate. With young horses you really do need to have very firm boundaries that are black and white as to how they behave around you.

Do you know if he has been to many shows in the past? It would be understandable if he has not been out much to be agitated at being on a lorry when he could presumably hear and see and lot of stuff going on. One of mine is 18 years old and still is a nightmare on the lorry at a show so I just work around that and ensure that he is not left alone. Once he is off the lorry he is fine.

It does rather sound to me as though you do not really want to persevere with this horse so moving him on would not be a bad idea. To give him the best chance of going to a good home I would get some-one in to work with him ground and ridden manners. You might even find after this that he does become the horse for you.
 

catembi

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I have done pretty much the same as you, bought in July, persisted with her, racked up some injuries including two weeks off work with concussion, was starting to have some v unpleasant hacks, sold in Feb. Mine was ID, lovely horse, well bred, huge jump...but stressy all the time, bargey on the ground and inclined to bite. Lots of tears were shed, but it is a huge relief to have something gentler and my old horse is having a fab time in her new home jumping logs in the woods and hunting and doing all the things that I didn’t dare to do. The whole thing is a pain and you might lose money, but it is worth it to feel safe!
 

Pearlsasinger

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Apart from the spring grass, what are you feeding him on? I have experience of horses forgetting their manners because of something they are being fed. I would strip anything extra to grass/hay out of his diet and see if that helps, give it about amonth or so to be sure it is all out of his system
 

NooNoo59

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Hay essential balancer and chaff. I have been strict with his behaviour on the ground but it obviously hasn't stopped him launching himself over me! I am 60 in a couple of months (scary!)
 

Littlebear

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Most of the welsh horses I know can be quite a handful (not all but definitely most) being only 5 he needs firm but fair handling and at this point you either need to base yourself with a professional for a while to get you through this or sell and get something more suitable.
If you want an easy life the latter is probably the way to go, there is no point putting yourself at risk, I know a few 60 year olds that are fit and capable and competing still but if you are more of a hobby rider you might be better suited to an older more chilled laid back type you can just relax and enjoy. Either way I wish you luck x
 

HorseyTee

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I bought a Welsh D cross. He was my first horse (had loaned before) and was lovely when I first met him. After owning him a few weeks he became rude and bargy and basically an absolute brat.
I decided I could either sell him or sort it out.
When he misbehaved, I behaved even louder than he did, and for us it worked. I think he was really shocked that someone was putting him in his place for once.
I have also found that he is happiest and calmest when living out 24/7/365 and the only feed he has is grass and fibre mash with his biotin in.
He rarely gets treats or anything else, and I'd done some clicker training to stop him being rude and grabbing for treats.
He is now very sweet and polite. Still has the occasional arsehole day but don't we all.
 

Rumtytum

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I’m 64 so a little older than you but probably of the same view that the time ahead should be quality and enjoyable. So, hard as it may be, I would sell and find a horse I can have fun with and feel safe.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Hay essential balancer and chaff. I have been strict with his behaviour on the ground but it obviously hasn't stopped him launching himself over me! I am 60 in a couple of months (scary!)

Is that alfalfa chaff? What is in the blanancer? I would stop both of them, tbh
 

TheMule

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You set yourself up to fail at the show really- if he's been hard to handle at hime that's never going to improve when you go to a stressful environment!
I think you have 2 options- sell him now, or use someone to work with him and see if he becomes more like the horse you need
 

ForbiddenHorse

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Oh dear. Have you owned a Welsh before? How long have you owned him?
They can be extremely loyal affectionate horses but you need to understand them, its like a love hate relationship with my D. When I bought him he was only 3 but oh he tried it on. It took me a few months to realize I needed to be extremely firm, like no horse I have ever owned. He can be a complete sod, such as I have a time to catch him if its mid day without a bucket of feed he thinks stuff you but to ride, but his trot and movement is to die for and hes lovely to ride. He is 'jumpy' hacking but I like that about him as hes safe but a fun ride. Some people don't, did you try him before you bought him?

You need to get a dually and do some ground work with him, he needs to know his place and some manors. My dually is amazing at shows, places he gets strong. I am VERY firm, all 5'3 and 8 stone of me and he respects me. LOL.
Hes in a new environment and welshes are extremely sensitive. If you've had him a while and hes no better than you may be better of with something more calm. Its supposed to be fun, if you aren't having fun then maybe sell him and find something you enjoy.
 

Melody Grey

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Yes- agree with most of what’s been said. Awesome horses but can be opinionated and definitely need a firm hand! Mine (In profile pic) had ended up with a novice as his first owner since breaking and had picked up plenty of tricks. He has been quick to learn though, so although quirky we’re almost ‘normal’ now three years on 🤣
 

windand rain

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Love welsh and have never had a bad one but they do need very good ground manners at all times. Perhaps someone to teach him manners will solve the problems he may well be pushing you around because he can. I am 65 and dont like being mashed, it does happen sometimes when they forget their manners, but from yearlings up it is important to me they are as near perfect on the ground as I can get them it does take a lot of time though
 

NooNoo59

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I have been very strict with not pulling me along backing up in.the stable not getting in my space etc. Also no treats or nipping. But this on Monday was way bigger than anything he had done before. And the fact that my arse is so bruised I can't ride. I have handled lots of horses thru the years and expect good behaviour. He just seems to be getting worse not better
 

NooNoo59

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Is that alfalfa chaff? What is in the blanancer? I would stop both of them, tbh
Non molassed chaff and Saracens balancer as advised by the rep. He has been having this for 4 months now to build him up as he was too lean in the winter. Going to reduce it down.now as the grass is coming
 

ester

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I think age/breed is probably conspiring against you.
I have a 'good' welsh, who isn't very welsh. But I do think when they rather forget themselves, and you, it can be harder to get through to them than some other breed, regardless of their usual adherence to the rules.

That being said mums anglo went over the top of her last summer, we'd had her 14 years at that point and her usual is very polite.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Non molassed chaff and Saracens balancer as advised by the rep. He has been having this for 4 months now to build him up as he was too lean in the winter. Going to reduce it down.now as the grass is coming
Do you know what the chaff and balancer have in them? Reps usually do recommend their own feeds, which is fine unless your horse reacts badly to it. We have had more than one horse react badly to alfalfa but they can react to any foods, including supplements.

ETA, if he is reacting to the feed, his behaviour will be getting worse, the more of it that he has.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I have tried to find out the ingredients of what you are feeding by checking the Saracen website, they do seem a bit coy but the balancer that you are using contains 'cane molasses' and toffee -lite flavouring, neither of which I would give my horses. The only chaff that Saracen are marketing is molassed, so I guess you are not using that but I couldn't find what is in that product.
 

Frumpoon

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I've been there - but with a 17hh warmblood - I'm useless at parting with things so I stuck with him and here we are 10 years later still muddling through somehow
 

taraj

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I currently have 2 welsh Ds (3 and 17)and have worked with others in the past.
They are very fast learners (good and bad). IMO.... too firm and they will hate you and too fair they will walk all over you but when you get the balance right they will do anything for you. Age 5/6 is often the worse and they will test you.
Was he shown in-hand before you bought him?
Both of mine were handled well, by show producers, from foals to yearlings and luckily wouldn't dream of being bargy and know what personal space is but are still quirky, the 17 yr old still jogs around the block spooking at leaves and sometimes wont be caught but we know him so well we just laugh now! The youngster hates standing on the trailer as she wants to be with you and is just nosey!
One of mine had a reaction to Saracen improver Pencils so I wont feed that brand now just in case.
 

blitznbobs

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He’s a 5 year old welsh... it’s certainly not unusual behaviour and if it worries you I agree he’s probably not the right horse. I’m not saying it’s behaviour that can’t be corrected but if it worries you, you probably aren’t the person to sort it out...

Quite often 5 year olds go thru a teenage phase where they rebel a bit and test your boundaries... and with a Welsh you’d better be sure where those boundaries are! Get some professional help before you get hurt or move him on to a more confident home.
 

NooNoo59

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I currently have 2 welsh Ds (3 and 17)and have worked with others in the past.
They are very fast learners (good and bad). IMO.... too firm and they will hate you and too fair they will walk all over you but when you get the balance right they will do anything for you. Age 5/6 is often the worse and they will test you.
Was he shown in-hand before you bought him?
Both of mine were handled well, by show producers, from foals to yearlings and luckily wouldn't dream of being bargy and know what personal space is but are still quirky, the 17 yr old still jogs around the block spooking at leaves and sometimes wont be caught but we know him so well we just laugh now! The youngster hates standing on the trailer as she wants to be with you and is just nosey!
One of mine had a reaction to Saracen improver Pencils so I wont feed that brand now just in case.
Yes this is the problem too much discipline and he loses it not enough and he is rude! Interesting. I do have a professional rider who schools him once a week she says she can have him at hers every so often to squash him! Don't think he has done much at all but was bought by the dealer from Malvern sales and wasn't phased by all that activity.
 

Megan V1

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I did exactly the same thing and bought a 5 year old sect d, he was a nightmare and I haven't ridden him for over 3 years now as he is just so unpredictable but I have spent so much time just handling him from the ground that he is now a perfect gentleman to handle and has lovely manners, so I would say that if you persevere with him his manners will improve. Not sure if I will ever ride mine again but don't think he minds and he is now a fabulous little horse to be around. I have had him nearly 12 years though.
 

NLPM

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My Welsh cob is a fabulous lad but he was really quite feral as a youngster. Not all his fault, but he was no angel either. I was forever falling off. I had a lot of help, worked through it (learnt to actually ride in the process...) and he ended up brilliant. Loyal as a dog. Alongside firm and consistent work (and lots of it - yes, getting them fit can make some horses tough to handle but I found the opposite - keeping his brains and body tired helped!), he grew up when he got to about 7 - it really was quite a sudden transformation. I gather this is not unusual for them.

I suppose your options are to get firm, professional help and wait for him to grow up (still working with him, teaching him manners inhand/under saddle etc. in the meantime, before someone interprets that as me suggesting you leave him in a field for two years!) or move on to another horse. It sounds like you are inclined to cut your losses and honestly, a 4 year old Welsh will sell. His behaviour is not unusual - you won't be stuck with him if you advertise him honestly and there are many out there familiar with Welshes/youngsters who are more able or willing to take risks than you are. And that's no criticism of you, honestly - it's meant to be fun, not a chore and definitely not frightening.
 

Chianti

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I started sharing my first horse when she was 18 and I was a lot younger than I am now. She was Welsh section B cross thoroughbred and her owner always said she got the worst of both. Even at that age she could be a complete nightmare both in hand and to ride and as a real novice I was often out of my depth. I stuck with her and we had 9 great years together but her owner told stories about her as a 4/5 year old that made me very glad I hadn't been around her then. I'm now nearly 60 and own a sweet 13 hand pony. I seriously think that as you get older you just want something easy and reliable as to be honest time isn't on our side. I would cut your losses and sell him to a good home and find something you can enjoy riding and be relaxed about handing. You can fiddle with feed and turn out you can't fight nature!
 

splashgirl45

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i am another who says ditch any feed and just let him have hay and grass. dont feed haylage as that can make some horse react. also can he be out 24/7, why not take up the offer of him being sorted out by your professional and if he doesnt improve enough for you to handle him, get the professional to sell him from his/her yard...
 

NooNoo59

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My problem is I like him! But I don't bounce anymore and it's going to be a long road but I bought him and not being an idiot I knew it wouldn't be easy. But I did think I would be able to do a bit of in hand and a couple of walk trots this year without too much of an issue. I don't want to let him down but I also don't want to spoil him. I know I can sell.him as he is a dun and very pretty. He also is well bred. Christ it's annoying that in my advancing I still can't make the right decision
 

CMcC

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I have a 7 year old Welsh D, I bought him at 3. When he was about 4 he started getting very bargy , pushing me around and bullying other ponies.
He barged me one day and I lost it a bit (nothing violent) grabbed him by the head collar, took him into stable, pushed him back off me, looked him in the eye and told him, “we don’t do things like that round here! We behave nicely and don’t push other people.” Amazingly his bad behaviour stopped that day. I like to think he understood what I said, more likely because I reacted quickly and pushed him back at the right time I got his respect.
I did lots of ground work with him to keep his brain occupied and he is very clever.
When I started taking him out he could get a bit wound up and wouldn’t stand still at lorry. Now he is completely chilled, stands to be tacked up, will stand for hours.
He is a fantastic pony. If you can perhaps get some professional help and persist, if you like him in other ways I think it would be worth it.

Mine is dun too, and very pretty. OP noticed you are in Kent, I am too could recommend someone who could help you.
 

Spottyappy

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Don’t be too disheartened- yet.
How long have you had him?
If he went through the sales at Malvern, then a dealer, and now you, he has experienced a lot of changes in a very short time. Assuming this isn’t over several months of his life, but just a few? Welsh can be incredibly sensitive, and the changes would heighten this. I have said on a different thread, my welsh mare was so distraught by the change in environment when I brought her, that I had to turn her away for 6 months. She was a nightmare, everything you describe and more. She had both myself and daughter off (although I wasn’t quite 50 at that point, I still didn’t bounce too well!), so we decided to listen to her and leave her to just think about things and accept the changes in her own time. She was also rising 6, so a similar age to yours.
Appreciate turning a horse away for 6 months is not idea, but for us it worked. She came back a different horse, and although she still has the welsh dragon moments, on the whole I trust her with my life now.
We have another welsh D, and he is totally different in temperament, nothing really worries him, but I would say he is the exception from my experience with the Ds!
When did you buy him, as you didn’t say? Assuming it’s the very recent past, I think he needs more time to settle. Play on the ground with him, maybe but don’t take him out until he has settled.
 
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