Not sure what to do about new horse

mushting

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Apoligies in advance for the long post!

Me and my friend bought a horse together to share financial and work load.

We met and rode a ISH 8yr old gelding who was very quiet donkey ish but not ploddy willing to work in school.

I rode him a few times hacking following others and in school on my own my friend Mike rode him with me leading him (it was a very windy wet day!) He was very quiet seemed willing to work I walked trotted and cantered him in th eschool we just walked out on the hack.

Weve had him a month now and since weve had him his behaviour has somewhat changed weve realised that we were over feeding him for the work we do.

When I ride him in the school I walk and trot Mike just walks him on hacks we just walk.

Im an experienced but lacking confidence rider and Mike is pretty novice.

We were feeding him 2 handfulls of speedi beat, 1/2 scoop chaff 1/2 scoop alfa a oil and half scoop pony nuts plus adlib hay and he is out in his field 8-4 and stabled at night.

His main difference is taking him out and bringing him back from the field sometimes he rears (full rears) or he may just sort of do a jump this seems to happen when were not walking fast enough and he gets frustrated?

Out on a hack on our own he seems tence I cant relax and Im glad to get back if I ask him to stand still to let a car pass or if I need to adjust my stirrups etc he paces he does a mini rear and spins i dont give him the option to run but if I wasnt concentrating I wouldnt put it past him when he spins I immeadiatly turn him back the way were going if that makes sence.

In the school hes fine for me I have no problems at all. With Mike however he has twice now gone from walk to trot to canter very quickly when Mikes just asking to walk the first time I put myself in front of Fin (horse) to stop him and the 2nd time I wasnt there but Mike was able to bring him back down to a walk.

The thing is I dont know what to do we cut his food right down to 1/2 scoop chaff and tiny amount of pony nuts twice day plus the adlib hay and grazing and he then got a leg infection so weve not been able to ride him to tell what hes like although he has done a jump to the field a few days ago but not reared also before he hurt his leg my friend cantered him in the school and he bucked (again not really a buck it was friend end went up and then back end a bit like a jump)

He does a headshake thing where he raises his head and nods it up and down we were aware of this when we bought him he used to have an ulcer in his mouth and the headshake thing is apprantly from remebered pain. We think he may of bucked because we use a standing martingale on him and because he couldnt get his head up we think he went back instead!

Any other ideas is this him or is it a food related problem we dont want to send him back we are on good terms with the previous owners and they are coming out to ride him when his leg is better but hes not the horse weve bought and they are schocked to hear what hes been behaving like.

If you have survivde reading all that then thankyou!
 
I only skimmed through that, but I think that the issues won't be down to feed. I think its not particularly him, but more an issue of two novice owners with a big strong horse. He sounds like he just needs firm handling and riding.

Getting the previous owners back to ride him is a good idea. I'm pretty sure that he will be fine for them. I think that the best thing that you could do now is find a really good local instructor (word of mouth is usually best) to help you get through these initial sticky times. It happens to a lot of new owners (so don't feel its just you) and you will get through it with a bit of time and help. Even getting an experienced sharer to help may be an idea. Or moving him to a yard with an experienced owner or full livery.
 
I don't mean to be abrupt but the horse needs work. It sounds like he spends all his time being asked to walk around which is boring and doesn't expend any of his energy. By all means cut down his food (he shouldn't be having any hard feed as he's not doing any work) but do consider actually getting him to do some work to use up his energy.

With the kind of work load you describe I think you would have been better off buying an elderly, semi-retired horse, not an 8 year old in the prime of his working life.

Why are you using a standing martingale on him?

Sorry but you do sound a bit flustered by the fact that he is a horse! It's cold, it's the middle of the winter and you're not working him enough.
 
I don't mean to be abrupt but the horse needs work. It sounds like he spends all his time being asked to walk around which is boring and doesn't expend any of his energy. By all means cut down his food (he shouldn't be having any hard feed as he's not doing any work) but do consider actually getting him to do some work to use up his energy.

With the kind of work load you describe I think you would have been better off buying an elderly, semi-retired horse, not an 8 year old in the prime of his working life.

Why are you using a standing martingale on him?

Sorry but you do sound a bit flustered by the fact that he is a horse! It's cold, it's the middle of the winter and you're not working him enough.

^^ All of this ^^

First thing that springs to mind - why are you feeding him that much when he is only plodding around?
Second thing - sounds like he is bored with his job. What sort of work, and how much of it, was he doing before you bought him?
Third - do you have an instructor who can help you out, learn how to handle him, manage him and get lots of lessons?
 
I agree with the others- he was probably calm and "ploddy" when you rode him because he was getting enough work- and now he is not, and he has excess energy to burn. It sounds like he needs someone who will be "boss" and also do some more with him. Not many horses bred for a "proper" job will be happy just trotting round the school in endless circles and going out for the odd plod along the roads.

Sorry, but I agree with Booboos- by the sounds of it, you would have been better getting something that was a level or two down the rung. But now you've done it, I would recommend getting a decent instructor and regular lessons.
 
Agree your horse being only 8 needs much more work than he's getting. He's probably bored silly walking in circles in the school. Can't really blame him.
Are you and your sharer having lessons? If not, then get some booked! And maybe you could both have some lungeing lessons as well?
 
I don't mean to be abrupt but the horse needs work. It sounds like he spends all his time being asked to walk around which is boring and doesn't expend any of his energy. By all means cut down his food (he shouldn't be having any hard feed as he's not doing any work) but do consider actually getting him to do some work to use up his energy.

With the kind of work load you describe I think you would have been better off buying an elderly, semi-retired horse, not an 8 year old in the prime of his working life.

Why are you using a standing martingale on him?

Sorry but you do sound a bit flustered by the fact that he is a horse! It's cold, it's the middle of the winter and you're not working him enough.

^^ All of this ^^

First thing that springs to mind - why are you feeding him that much when he is only plodding around?
Second thing - sounds like he is bored with his job. What sort of work, and how much of it, was he doing before you bought him?
Third - do you have an instructor who can help you out, learn how to handle him, manage him and get lots of lessons?

Agree with both these points. I think you have over horsed yourself
 
Get a good recommended instructor who will help you with both the ground handling and ridden work. It will honestly make a world of difference to him seeing you as his confident leader. He will want to be with you and follow you. You are at the moment in a catch 22 situation - he knows you are nervous so he gets anxious and takes contriol in the only way horses know 'flight mode' and the more he does this the more nervous you get handling/riding him. So things need to change to move forward - cut the feed to chaff and maybe a balancer and hay and talk to some instructors and find one you can work with.
Good luck OP - where ther is a will there's a way and you can make this successful. Another tip - always wear gloves and a hat when handling him - it will give you confidence.
 
As with all the other replies, I would suggest getting a good instructor out to help you. Some horses will take the mick if they realise you're a little nervous of them and/or not hugely experienced so he might be doing that.
Just to throw another idea in though, did you get him vetted when you bought him? Vets normally take a blood sample and keep it for 6 months so you can get it tested for anything dodgy if the horses behavior changes after you've bought them.
 
Thanks for all the replys I agree with most he is definatly underworked the reason I just walk/trot is mainly confidence I cant canter him at the moment I will be getting lessons to do this. I canter other horses hes just a bit green and strong which scares me a bit I guess. We did a 5 stage vetting I really dont think there is anything like that going on Im still in contact with the owners and they are coming up to ride him when his leg is better. What work is work for a horse other than hacking and walking/trotting in a school? Thanks
 
And regarding the feed we realise we were overfeeding hence why we have cut it right back after talking with previous owners, I dont really know how much he was ridden before he was quite lean when we got him so I guess we were just being generous thinking he needed it to gain weight without thinking about consequences......
 
Thanks for all the replys I agree with most he is definatly underworked the reason I just walk/trot is mainly confidence I cant canter him at the moment I will be getting lessons to do this. I canter other horses hes just a bit green and strong which scares me a bit I guess. We did a 5 stage vetting I really dont think there is anything like that going on Im still in contact with the owners and they are coming up to ride him when his leg is better. What work is work for a horse other than hacking and walking/trotting in a school? Thanks

I don't mean to sound like a mega snob, but I think your best bet is to either see of the owner will take him back, or sell him yourselves. Then go look for a nice steady cob (or similar) who is happy with a plod round the block and trotting some circles. You are in a potentially very dangerous situation. The longer you keep not working him enough, the more wound up he is going to get, and it could end very nastily.
 
No thats ok, all input is useful I want to be able to work him more though the reason we didnt opt for a cob is because the yard owner where Im doing my NVQ thought I would get bored because once I get my confidence Im pretty sure it will be what he needs I just wondered if it was food causing a problem or something else, plus the owners will take him back no problem but we really only want to do this as a last option.......
 
Tbh, I bought Barry because I wanted something I could reach BE80 level on, as that's my dream. I've been riding 16 years and have a decent amount of experience under my belt. Riding him is fine, I'm just not 100% confident on him. I could keep him and it would be fine, he does everything I ask of him, but I can't say I absolutely love riding him as I used to with my old ponies.

I've realised I need something in the middle, a nice confidence giver I can mess around on, and get my confidence back on. Apparently loan ponies who suddenly shoot backwards very quickly out hacking don't do much for your nerve!

I am usually all for saying hey some decent lessons- but I think you and your friend are on a totally different level from this horse.

I am not a quitter, but I think this horse is too much for you and your friend to reach the level of even with a lot of lessons. He sounds like he knows he can walk all over you- hence your difficulty handling him as well. It's meant to be fun...so go get something you can have fun on :)
 
I don't mean to sound like a mega snob, but I think your best bet is to either see of the owner will take him back, or sell him yourselves. Then go look for a nice steady cob (or similar) who is happy with a plod round the block and trotting some circles. You are in a potentially very dangerous situation. The longer you keep not working him enough, the more wound up he is going to get, and it could end very nastily.

Afraid I agree with this too
 
I don't think that you necessarily need a cob. You just need some help while you get used to him and how to look after him. Could you consider putting him on part livery somewhere where someone more experienced could work out his feed requirements until you find your feet? Even better if that person also taught...

As for work, it doesn't matter if you're only walking and trotting, both on hacks and in the school, especially if that's what you're confident doing, but you need to increase the length of time that he is working, so walk and trot further..

Does he get much turnout or has he had to rest due to his leg injury? Less turnout and rest will affect his mood/behaviour too. Are you on a yard where you could ride out with other people so that you can gain more confidence (horses generally hack out better with a calm companion..)?
 
Do you know how to lunge? This could be another option for you both, and if you do it before riding, it will make him less energetic when you get on.
 
Agree with what has been said. He's got to be worked and IMHO I mean lots of fast work not just walking and trotting. Any 8 year old would boil over with just walking and trotting. Sell and get something more suited.
 
We couldnt afford part livery we also couldnt really afford alot of lessons either we are starting to look for an experienced sharer to school and excersise him. I feel Ive made him sound worse than he is I guess thats because Ive listed all his bad points! We did start to lunge him before he hurt his leg then he hurt his leg and weve not been able to ride since. I will keep you updated :)
 
Be very very careful. You have bought a green horse with a less experienced partner, and even you find it worrying to do really basic things like canter the horse. You can't afford regular lessons and your YO is giving you rubbish advice (if you bought a horse that restored your confidence but left you feeling bored in a year or two you could easily sell that horse and buy another one. Buying a horse that scares you now will only shatter your confidence further).

As for work there are a lot of options such as fast hacking (going for a blast of a canter hack to blow the cobwebs once a week), proper schooling work (getting the horse to work from behind, transitions, lateral work, etc.) a couple of times a week. If you did this kind of work 3 times a week, your friend could afford to do 2 walk sessions, although even then you would need a very special horse that would be able to adapt itself both to more work with a more experienced rider and to plodding along with a beginner rider.

Nothing you say about this horse and your situation makes him sound suitable for you.

I know I sound awful and nasty but I'll tell you why I am being so direct. I bought the wrong horse as a first horse. I had waited years to be able to afford a horse, got the wrong advice, knew very little and was unlucky to end up with a spectacularly unsuitable horse. She shattered my confidence, set me back and affected all my riding for years. I was lucky I did not get seriously injured. From what you say your friend needs to go back to RS lessons until he/she is ablt to walk/trot/canter all the RS horses in the school and all hacks with confidence. You could benefit from a more suitable horse that will teach you rather than cause you problems. If the previous owners are willing to take the horse back, do it immediately.
 
Be very very careful. You have bought a green horse with a less experienced partner, and even you find it worrying to do really basic things like canter the horse. You can't afford regular lessons and your YO is giving you rubbish advice (if you bought a horse that restored your confidence but left you feeling bored in a year or two you could easily sell that horse and buy another one. Buying a horse that scares you now will only shatter your confidence further.

If the previous owners are willing to take the horse back, do it immediately.

Aye. Even if you could afford regular lessons, I would still say sell. Given you can't...I think it is really the only feasible option. I would also advise you don't listen to your YO again, sounds like she has absolutely no clue about what would make a suitable horse for you.
 
I also think you have bought the wrong horse. You, your sharer and your horse's confidence can be shattered very easily and it will be incredibly difficult to rebuild. I can't understand on whose advice your purchased a green, big 8yo and didn't factor in being able to afford lessons.

Work for horses, other than W&T in the arena and W out hacking, can be proper schooling with plenty of transitions, lateral work, jumping, pole and grid work, lungeing, long reining, in hand work, fast hacks, long slower hacks, all sorts. My own horse would go nuts if he only W&T in the school. He would make his own amusement and you'd be frightened half to death. I have had several horses over the years, I'm on a supportive livery yard with an experienced YO who schools my young horse for me, I'd like to think I'm pretty confident (I'll XC/SJ/event/hunt/go up the gallops/DR) but when my green horse started playing up last year, it really made me nervous. So it can happen to anyone. Thankfully I have the support available to work through it but it doesn't sound as though you do.

I think returning the horse to the seller is probably the best option, TBH. I appreciate you think you will be able to learn to ride him in future, but it sounds like you would really benefit from continuing with just riding lessons for now. Maybe look for something at your RS to share so you can learn about management, gain experience in different situations and improve your confidence. Then look at buying something older and quieter. Even if you outgrow that a couple of years down the line, at least you won't destroy your own confidence and potentially ruin the horse in the process.
 
We couldnt afford part livery we also couldnt really afford alot of lessons either we are starting to look for an experienced sharer to school and excersise him. I feel Ive made him sound worse than he is I guess thats because Ive listed all his bad points! We did start to lunge him before he hurt his leg then he hurt his leg and weve not been able to ride since. I will keep you updated :)

Your horse doesn't sound bad in any way. Simply in the wrong hands. As for your YO recommending you not get a cob - well words fail me.

Please return your horse to the person you bought it from, and re-think horse ownership until you are in a position to be able to afford lessons.
 
No thats ok, all input is useful I want to be able to work him more though the reason we didnt opt for a cob is because the yard owner where Im doing my NVQ thought I would get bored because once I get my confidence Im pretty sure it will be what he needs I just wondered if it was food causing a problem or something else, plus the owners will take him back no problem but we really only want to do this as a last option.......

What a ridiculous/ absurd thing of your yard owner to say!! You buy a horse that is suited to the ability you have NOW not what you might have in the future. 7 years ago I bought a fat lazy ID cob and over that period time we have both got better and he is now the most amazing horse I could ever wish for and the best thing I ever did. Not all cobs are plods, they just tend to have a more sensible view on life. Please don't take this the wrong way but if you can't even canter on this horse yet (and I'm talking about now and not in the future) I think he's probably the wrong horse for you.
 
No thats ok, all input is useful I want to be able to work him more though the reason we didnt opt for a cob is because the yard owner where Im doing my NVQ thought I would get bored because once I get my confidence Im pretty sure it will be what he needs I just wondered if it was food causing a problem or something else, plus the owners will take him back no problem but we really only want to do this as a last option.......

can you keep him at the yard you are doing your nvq for a while so you can have plenty of help getting him working and realising what he needs from you as an owner
 
I find the cobs comment from your YO unbelievable too! The humble cob is actually the most fantastic and versatile 'type'.
Do you know I hacked out my daughter's 14.2hh 20 yr old cob mare on Sunday - she put the 2 WBs (16hh +) we hacked with to shame by striding out purposefully for the entire hack. She left them so behind - she is such a willing little horse at all times. In the 8 years we have owned her - she has shown and won prolifically at County level, XC'd, showumped, gone to Pony Club and is now enjoying great success everytime we go out to unaffiliated dressage. The judges absolutely love her. I wouldn't sell her for any money and I would challenge that she would be satisfying for most levels of rider bar a complete novice. Infact I bought a Dales youngster in the hope he will mature to be half the horse the little mare is and I would be more than satisfied with that.
 
I just got an Irish Cob who is 14, and she is a little witch. She got better and then yesterday decided that whilst being tied up she'd turn her arse on me and kick out with her back legs and continue to stomp them on the ground.

She is my first horse, I would class myself as intermediate, I part loaned for a couple of months before buying my own. When I first got her I'd have just panicked at that moment if she did it, I have however been getting weekly lessons from a good instructor and also I do little and often with her, every day I do inhand work with her for 15 minutes and making her walk over things such as poles, and tarpaulin (sp), next to tyres etc. I've also been teaching her new commands, such as lowering her head down to make it easier getting equipment on. So when it came to her being a crap yesterday, I had the confidence in myself to put her in her place and I gave her a smack when she turned in on me, to which she decided to attempt to rear and I punched her in her chest and yanked her head collar. She bloody well behaved after that

When I first started riding her she'd take off, in the school or out hacking, alone or in company she'd bolt. But all this in hand work has been paying off, and the lessons are helping so much, she is a different horse just after 5 weeks. Still has a long way to go but I find the more I work her (even if it's just 5 minutes of basic obedience) the calmer she is.
 
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