Not worthy....

[TheMule]

It’s a very athletic, tall, young thoroughbred filly. It wouldn’t be an obvious first choice for most people who want to happy hack.
I’m not there why it’s really that controversial to say that?!

BTW I have a super TB who is ‘just’ a happy hacker. Because his brain couldn’t cope with being a competition horse, but his superb grounding in hacking whilst in training has made him into a brilliant hack.

 

[Exasperated]

Suppose it wouldn’t be possible that this 3 year old, turned away for a few months to “let down”, then brought back in, fed a proper diet, whilst still being turned out each day, worked for a few weeks….turned away again, to grow …then brought back into proper work with diet for work being done, could become a much loved companion to wander the countryside with its owner on whatever hack they choose? For many years….

Yes, it might do, but equally it might not do - the issue is that the current owner ( who is apparently experienced and knowledgable about OTT TBs?) doesn’t think (based on their own experience, presumably?) that this horse would be likely to be successful or happy in that role.
Since he’s trying to sell it, seems unreasonable to accuse his assessment of his own horse of ‘snobbery’, and thus limiting the market for his animal.
And if he were to prove correct - another unsuitably placed, miserable, potentially hazardous, hacking combo - seems a shame, if was wholly avoidable.
If he’s wrong, and it fails dismally in a competitive career - there’ll probably be a further opportunity to ‘rescue’ it for another chance, later on.
Horses for courses, and according to this vendor, doesn’t sound like hacking is the appropriate course, but it doesn’t read as tho’ vendor has any prejudice against hacks, someone else stating same chap is advertising other horses he owns as ‘suitable for hacking’.
He sells horses, he’s not an English literature don, think people are reading far too much into this advert!
(but whiled away a rainy afternoon, heigh-ho)

 

[Marshpiper]

Yes, it might do, but equally it might not do - the issue is that the current owner ( who is apparently experienced and knowledgable about OTT TBs?) doesn’t think (based on their own experience, presumably?) that this horse would be likely to be successful or happy in that role.
Since he’s trying to sell it, seems unreasonable to accuse his assessment of his own horse of ‘snobbery’, and thus limiting the market for his animal.
And if he were to prove correct - another unsuitably placed, miserable, potentially hazardous, hacking combo - seems a shame, if was wholly avoidable.
If he’s wrong, and it fails dismally in a competitive career - there’ll probably be a further opportunity to ‘rescue’ it for another chance, later on.
Horses for courses, and according to this vendor, doesn’t sound like hacking is the appropriate course, but it doesn’t read as tho’ vendor has any prejudice against hacks, someone else stating same chap is advertising other horses he owns as ‘suitable for hacking’.
He sells horses, he’s not an English literature don, think people are reading far too much into this advert!
(but whiled away a rainy afternoon, heigh-ho)

Not for one minute doing the “snobbery” thing, just at three who knows what the future holds…and I applaud the vendor for being honest….

 

[eahotson]

I saw that advert, loved the horse and thought she looked cracking. Exactly what I would want in a TB sport horse. Thought their phone would ring off the hook and was a bit sad I had sworn off getting more horses.

As for the comment on happy hacking. I can see both points of view. Horses don't have ambition so it makes no difference to them what they do. They just want to be comfortable in their own skin. At the same time we all know 'happy hackers' who don't ride in balance, lack confidence on sharper horses, only ride once a week with horses who don't look brilliant whether that's too fat or lacking muscle than ones who do. I suspect the perception is there is more of this type of rider than not.

Does it matter if your balance is not 100% or you don’t like/want to ride sharper horses?Know yourself,that's what I say and make sure you are riding a suitable horse for you.I have seen many people on fancy horses not enjoying them at all as they are terrified of them.

 

[criso]

Suppose it wouldn’t be possible that this 3 year old, turned away for a few months to “let down”, then brought back in, fed a proper diet, whilst still being turned out each day, worked for a few weeks….turned away again, to grow …then brought back into proper work with diet for work being done, could become a much loved companion to wander the countryside with its owner on whatever hack they choose? For many years….

It might but if I was looking for a horse to mainly hack, there are others with the same seller l/retraining centre I would pick as they are described as good hacks.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I think there can be perceived snobbery across all camps, including reverse snobbery from people that hack.

I mainly hack with my native as well, I'd be silly not to. We live in a beautiful area with direct off road hacking, a network of bridlepaths and quiet roads. We do have regular lessons, dabble in polework and jumping and have scores I'm really proud of in low level dressage but it's tacking up and going into the big wide world, trotting and cantering about (or just ambling, sometimes) for hours at a time that makes me genuinely happiest. It's my native's happiest place and we mantain great fitness without it feeling much like 'work' at all - important for his waistline!

We come across anything and everything from meeting farm animals, crossing fjords, paddling in ponds, small bridges over streams, big bridges over roads or under roads, narrow tracks, open countryside, fallen trees, ditches, logs to jump, steep uphills, steep downhills, going up or down steps, runners, cyclists, walkers, dogs, campers. We've met/seen rowers, sailing, organised runs and orienteering competitions in our time, strings of racehorses and elite competition horses out, driven horses to name but a few. We can stop at coffee stands, pubs or for a picnic but we can canter around quite happily for miles too.

And yes, there's undoubtly skill in navigating all of that and building a partnership with my horse. It's why I enjoy dabbling in Trec so much (albeit limited due to transport issues) as it helps to refine those skills in a fun way. But there's skill in dressage, jumping (I've put my native on some very dodgy strides in his life coming towards some 60/70cm fences to know just how much skill it would take to jump bigger tracks on more powerful horses with far more scope and a sharper brain than mine has), showing, eventing etc.

I'd describe my native as good to hack but not for a novice as he's keen to get going, can be quite cheeky with one or two small quirks and isn't always quite as brave as he'd like to make out. But he's genuine (as long as he likes the rider ...!) and sane enough that he isn't going to be overly put off if I've put him on a dodgy stride to a log or haven't expected him to jump so big over a ditch. I'd be fooling myself and it'd be embarrassing to pretend he's on the same level of skill needed to ride many a sharper/more powerful horse - there's no shame in rider's being more skilled or braver than me! I ride for fun and my idea of fun isn't being scared to death of the power of the horse beneath me and worrying I'm going to scare a horse because I lost my core for a stride when I got a bigger canter transition than I expected or we chipped in at a log.
It'd be a total waste when I could be riding something I feel happy to tack up and go out on my own and canter around the countryside with the biggest smile on my face.

Equally, if someone doesn't love hacking, why should they slog around the countryside in the mud, navigating traffic or being bitten to death by horse flies to prove they can when they could concentrate their efforts on the discipline they do enjoy (obviously assuming the horse does have enough variety). I think we'd all do better to respect the skills we all have (or are working on) in all our disciplines rather than concentrate than what seperates us.

 

[LEC]

Does it matter if your balance is not 100% or you don’t like/want to ride sharper horses?Know yourself,that's what I say and make sure you are riding a suitable horse for you.I have seen many people on fancy horses not enjoying them at all as they are terrified of them.

Then you wouldn't be getting a 3yo TB which has been in training which is the point of this post to discuss and why the advert has been worded in such a way....

 

[eahotson]

Then you wouldn't be getting a 3yo TB which has been in training which is the point of this post to discuss and why the advert has been worded in such a way....

It's this casual happy hacking myth that gets me.Only a happy hacker horse or rider.A good hacking horse has to learn to go out by itself,in company,at the front or back .To stay in control in a group and to go past or allow to pass any number of scary things on modern roads.Thats pretty good schooling to me.The rider has to be confident of the horse on the road and to have built up a good relationship with it generally. I expect quite a lot of hackers have quite good balance actually and I have seen some very unbalanced riders who think they are experienced

 

[Barton Bounty]

It's this casual happy hacking myth that gets me.Only a happy hacker horse or rider.A good hacking horse has to learn to go out by itself,in company,at the front or back .To stay in control in a group and to go past or allow to pass any number of scary things on modern roads.Thats pretty good schooling to me.The rider has to be confident of the horse on the road and to have built up a good relationship with it generally. I expect quite a lot of hackers have quite good balance actually and I have seen some very unbalanced riders who think they are experienced

I completely agree with you! Out on the road etc you have to be prepared for anything. I mean anything.. I am training Orbi as I go along as there is no possible way in life you can train them all at once to do everything all at once! if your horse trusts you, they will do anything with you confidently.
Hacking takes a lot of effort and fitness too, we don’t all just sit there like a bag of tatties. Equally we don’t just ride around in circles.
Mind you, when I bought Orbi from Kev, he said he has huuuge potential and I can basically do anything with him and we would be jumping gates in no time yes Kev, you call the ambulance

 

[eahotson]

I completely agree with you! Out on the road etc you have to be prepared for anything. I mean anything.. I am training Orbi as I go along as there is no possible way in life you can train them all at once to do everything all at once! if your horse trusts you, they will do anything with you confidently.
Hacking takes a lot of effort and fitness too, we don’t all just sit there like a bag of tatties. Equally we don’t just ride around in circles.
Mind you, when I bought Orbi from Kev, he said he has huuuge potential and I can basically do anything with him and we would be jumping gates in no time yes Kev, you call the ambulance

Well said

 

[MuddyMonster]

It's this casual happy hacking myth that gets me.Only a happy hacker horse or rider.A good hacking horse has to learn to go out by itself,in company,at the front or back .To stay in control in a group and to go past or allow to pass any number of scary things on modern roads.Thats pretty good schooling to me.The rider has to be confident of the horse on the road and to have built up a good relationship with it generally. I expect quite a lot of hackers have quite good balance actually and I have seen some very unbalanced riders who think they are experienced

I don't think anyone is debating the schooling or training that goes into a horse that hacks well. Or that riders that enjoy hacking don't have good balance or reflexes.

More, that there is a huge difference in range of sharpness and power in horses and there are some horse's that need a very, very good rider used to sharp, powerful horse's to hack safely. Not all riders that compete are of course able to ride those kind of horse's either.

But I can kind of understand why an advert would state competition home ideally wanted, for a 3 year old TB to try to get a good owner match.

I have no idea of the horse in question but I wouldn't be surprised if someone was to call up and say, well, I don't compete but I've done lots of X type of riding - be that a lifetime of fast hacking, hunting, they were former endurance rider or someone that's backed next door's youngsters and hacked them all out for the last 4 years or had numerous OTTB, they might be considered a match too. But it does help weedle the kind of rider that hacks once or twice a week on a loose rein to catch up on the yard gossip and maybe fancies themselves something flasher than their current horse at that moment in time (and there is nothing wrong with that type of rider either, they are just probably not a match for that type of horse).

 

[eahotson]

I don't think anyone is debating the schooling or training that goes into a horse that hacks well. Or that riders that enjoy hacking don't have good balance or reflexes.

More, that there is a huge difference in range of sharpness and power in horses and there are some horse's that need a very, very good rider used to sharp, powerful horse's to hack safely. Not all riders that compete are of course able to ride those kind of horse's either.

But I can kind of understand why an advert would state competition home ideally wanted, for a 3 year old TB to try to get a good owner match.

I have no idea of the horse in question but I wouldn't be surprised if someone was to call up and say, well, I don't compete but I've done lots of X type of riding - be that a lifetime of fast hacking, hunting, they were former endurance rider or someone that's backed next door's youngsters and hacked them all out for the last 4 years or had numerous OTTB, they might be considered a match too. But it does help weedle the kind of rider that hacks once or twice a week on a loose rein to catch up on the yard gossip and maybe fancies themselves something flasher than their current horse at that moment in time (and there is nothing wrong with that type of rider either, they are just probably not a match for that type of horse).

Two things really. Some TBs are actually quite quiet and 3 year old are rarely a good match for novice riders.We don't know why he said what he did but if I was selling that horse I would have stated no novices due to the horses age.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Two things really. Some TBs are actually quite quiet and 3 year old are rarely a good match for novice riders.We don't know why he said what he did but if I was selling that horse I would have stated no novices due to the horses age.

Kev is generally is really good guy and he will have assessed fully before putting up for sale. He will ask questions before allowing anyone to come and try and that includes weights etc!
He obviously thinks she has talent and is looking for that kind of home.
Obviously no one knows the futures of any horse at all.
She is gorgeous though and a really nicely built mare. I imagine she is going to end up a really decent size too. Look at how Orbi has shot up and filled out.
I hope she gets a really lovely home

 

[MuddyMonster]

Two things really. Some TBs are actually quite quiet and 3 year old are rarely a good match for novice riders.We don't know why he said what he did but if I was selling that horse I would have stated no novices due to the horses age.

Absolutely. I've owned and ridden TB's

But an advert isnt the time or place to go into all the details about a horse, so I can kind of understand the wording used and why.

 

[ihatework]

Tbh (having not seen the advert or know who the seller is), but as I elude from this thread, if you have someone who is selling/rehoming a number of tb horses you would hope they would be able to evaluate a horse in front of them and pitch it in such a way to optimise the chance of a successful long term partnership.

So if they say this horse will be better in a competitive environment then I’d take that at face value. I don’t read into it snobbery. Especially if they have others advertised as good for a hacking home.

There are plenty of people who primarily hack who could give an athletic young tb a cracking home - but I’m afraid there are far more who are incompetent and ignorant of what some of these horses need. They just see a cheap horse.

I’m boggled at how some people can get their backs put up by this.

 

[wills_91]

I don't think anyone is debating the schooling or training that goes into a horse that hacks well. Or that riders that enjoy hacking don't have good balance or reflexes.

More, that there is a huge difference in range of sharpness and power in horses and there are some horse's that need a very, very good rider used to sharp, powerful horse's to hack safely. Not all riders that compete are of course able to ride those kind of horse's either.

But I can kind of understand why an advert would state competition home ideally wanted, for a 3 year old TB to try to get a good owner match.

I have no idea of the horse in question but I wouldn't be surprised if someone was to call up and say, well, I don't compete but I've done lots of X type of riding - be that a lifetime of fast hacking, hunting, they were former endurance rider or someone that's backed next door's youngsters and hacked them all out for the last 4 years or had numerous OTTB, they might be considered a match too. But it does help weedle the kind of rider that hacks once or twice a week on a loose rein to catch up on the yard gossip and maybe fancies themselves something flasher than their current horse at that moment in time (and there is nothing wrong with that type of rider either, they are just probably not a match for that type of horse).

But your last paragraph is kind of hinting that "that kind of rider" wouldn't have the knowledge to know that that horse is not a suitable candidate... Which is the whole point of the OP.

 

[eahotson]

Tbh (having not seen the advert or know who the seller is), but as I elude from this thread, if you have someone who is selling/rehoming a number of tb horses you would hope they would be able to evaluate a horse in front of them and pitch it in such a way to optimise the chance of a successful long term partnership.

So if they say this horse will be better in a competitive environment then I’d take that at face value. I don’t read into it snobbery. Especially if they have others advertised as good for a hacking home.

There are plenty of people who primarily hack who could give an athletic young tb a cracking home - but I’m afraid there are far more who are incompetent and ignorant of what some of these horses need. They just see a cheap horse.

I’m boggled at how some people can get their backs put up by this.

Only hackers can be incompetent?

 

[ihatework]

Only hackers can be incompetent?

No

 

[Herewegoagain]

It's funny how things go, isn't it? That's all I wanted to do as a kid/teen, would have ridden anything but instead I had to go to shows and watch my father & stepmother do the competing and didn't get my "own" pony until I sorted out a loan all by myself. And then I had to scrounge lifts or hack for miles to get to a show. I did get taken to shows as a small child (pre school, LR gymkhana) but that stopped when my parents split up. Anyhow now there's a half sister, 28 years younger than me, doesn't seem that fussed, not that horse mad, will throw in the towel with anything that bucks or jumps her off or even awkward to mount yet she's had a string of ponies, not cheap ones either, competes not just unaff but aff as well, all the gear and a lorry which even has her initials on the reg! Whilst I don't envy the golden child in some ways, I don't enjoy having my nose rubbed in it either.

That’s so mean that they had their own horses and didn’t have one for you. I would love to get myself a horse next year but I know my daughter will be wanting a pony if a few years and I’m not sure I could afford to run two since I’m currently running none! I want to get her sorted first before I get anything for myself.

My mum was like you as a child and would have loved to be out competing but they didn’t have the money, she had to wait until she was older and could pay her own way. I think that’s why she pushed me a bit, I must’ve seemed ungrateful to her but you can only be grateful for what you actually want and I was way too shy to ever want to compete.

A lorry with her initials on is a bit much isn’t it! I know the baby of the family generally gets spoiled but that’s taking the mick! I’m not convinced giving kids everything they want is very good for them long term, which is probably why your sister throws in the towels so easily? She knows mum and dad will just get her another one.

 

[rhino]

The sellers are trying to run a business. A horse of theirs out competing, particularly if successfully and at a higher level, will bring them far more attention than one out hacking.

It’s the same as a sponsor giving equipment to a professional or high level competitor, not someone like me bumbling around the woods with a 2yo.

It’s just business?!

 

[Bellaboo18]

I do find this thread strange!

I haven't seen the ad but the problem with a lot of ex racers is they're cheap. Too cheap really so attract a lot of interest and yes sometimes the wrong interest. Some horses are more suited to a plod down the lane and some to a more structured schooling schedule we all know that. No snobbery needed.

OP, I love that you're having a great time on your lovely mare but you'd get ditched swinging your legs around like that on a lot of young fit horses. Selling horses is a minefield (same as buying them really).

 

[Barton Bounty]

I do find this thread strange!

I haven't seen the ad but the problem with a lot of ex racers is they're cheap. Too cheap really so attract a lot of interest and yes sometimes the wrong interest. Some horses are more suited to a plod down the lane and some to a more structured schooling schedule we all know that. No snobbery needed.

OP, I love that you're having a great time on your lovely mare but you'd get ditched swinging your legs around like that on a lot of young fit horses. Selling horses is a minefield (same as buying them really).

I also think a lot of them are too cheap although Orbi wasnt but I do agree thats why they are attractive to the wrong riders I guess.
On another point I have seen his adverts say, No 20 stoners etc.
I guess theres not much difference just stipulations.

 

[Caol Ila]

I do find this thread strange!

I haven't seen the ad but the problem with a lot of ex racers is they're cheap. Too cheap really so attract a lot of interest and yes sometimes the wrong interest. Some horses are more suited to a plod down the lane and some to a more structured schooling schedule we all know that. No snobbery needed.

OP, I love that you're having a great time on your lovely mare but you'd get ditched swinging your legs around like that on a lot of young fit horses. Selling horses is a minefield (same as buying them really).

Hah. Lucky for me, that horse wouldn’t know a competent rider if one sat on her tomorrow. She’d probably be horrified.

I was taking issue with the implication that non competitive/hacking riders are less competent at producing horses than a competition-orientated one. And the implication that a nice athletic horse “should” be out competing. You can find many useless competition riders and many very good non competitive ones. Christ, how many threads are there now about the dodgy things people do to win competitions? Obviously you all are paragons of equine welfare, but a “competition home” does not necessarily = a good one at all.

If they’d said “must be experienced with producing youngsters/ex racers/TBs,” I would have scrolled straight past the advert, same as I do with most of the adverts that spam my Facebook page.

 

[maya2008]

Don’t know whether that is relevant to the horse in the OP but you really can tell that some horses are born with a sharp temperament at much younger than at age 3.

Yes! I can tell you from foalhood what they will turn into. Of my two 2 year olds, one is as laid back as they come - will make a kind first pony type. The other is sharp but sweet. He won’t be for the faint hearted - his default position is to run whereas his friend’s is to stop and look. He’s been running from things he didn’t like all his life. She hasn’t.

Of the 4 year olds I have had since they were tiny, my kind and sensible ‘looks after her friend but is reluctant to leave the field if the fence is down’ pony is now turning her talents to looking after small children. No surprise there. She likes to be on the lead or follow. Also no surprise. Her cheekier but soft hearted friend who liked to jump out and explore at six weeks old - is scared of nothing, has merrily hacked out alone since a few weeks after backing and took to jumping like she’d been doing it forever (she kind of has, just illegally!).

I have seen this attitude a bit with children’s ponies. Someone was selling a pony that had been her daughter’s 1st and taken her off the lead rein but she said she only wanted a 2nd pony home as the pony deserved to be out winning rosettes.

I found it so strange that any person would think a horse cares about that stuff.

Possibly a polite way of saying pony has had enough of small people losing their balance, using the reins awkwardly, pony club kicking and all the stuff that goes with trying to figure out how to go from lead rein to successful off lead rider.

And I have one pony who absolutely cares. She lights up on seeing a jump let alone an arena - her eyes are bright, ears forward, joyful demeanour. We can hack her fast for hours but it’s just not enough stimulation for her. She gets bored, starts herding her friends like she is a border collie and they are sheep - and gets into trouble.

 

[DabDab]

I’m boggled at how some people can get their backs put up by this.

Me too.

 

[MuddyMonster]

But your last paragraph is kind of hinting that "that kind of rider" wouldn't have the knowledge to know that that horse is not a suitable candidate... Which is the whole point of the OP.

I'm not hinting at anything and I'm not trying to imply anything I'm just going on what I've understood is written in the advert and making some assumptions of what I think the writer of the advert is trying to achieve.

In my head I am struggling to fully understand the offense the advert would cause?

There's fewer people that can ride sharp, powerful horses well - it's a skill in itself and a good deal of these people that can are likely to be interested in, if not actually already competing.

I'm beginning to wonder who'd ever want to sell a horse if an advert probably written only to try attract the best possible home for a horse, is going to pulled apart on the t'internet.

 

[Herewegoagain]

Yes! I can tell you from foalhood what they will turn into. Of my two 2 year olds, one is as laid back as they come - will make a kind first pony type. The other is sharp but sweet. He won’t be for the faint hearted - his default position is to run whereas his friend’s is to stop and look. He’s been running from things he didn’t like all his life. She hasn’t.

Of the 4 year olds I have had since they were tiny, my kind and sensible ‘looks after her friend but is reluctant to leave the field if the fence is down’ pony is now turning her talents to looking after small children. No surprise there. She likes to be on the lead or follow. Also no surprise. Her cheekier but soft hearted friend who liked to jump out and explore at six weeks old - is scared of nothing, has merrily hacked out alone since a few weeks after backing and took to jumping like she’d been doing it forever (she kind of has, just illegally!).



Possibly a polite way of saying pony has had enough of small people losing their balance, using the reins awkwardly, pony club kicking and all the stuff that goes with trying to figure out how to go from lead rein to successful off lead rider.

And I have one pony who absolutely cares. She lights up on seeing a jump let alone an arena - her eyes are bright, ears forward, joyful demeanour. We can hack her fast for hours but it’s just not enough stimulation for her. She gets bored, starts herding her friends like she is a border collie and they are sheep - and gets into trouble.

Yeah possibly but I don’t think it’s impolite to just say that or leave out the first pony bit entirely and just say suitable as second pony.

I get that some ponies really like jumping a course but they’re not bothered about the rosettes or winning surely? They would presumably enjoy jumping just as much at home as away at a show?

 

[humblepie]

Nor does a competition home equal a bad one. Was at a top yard and every horse had huge thought care and attention to detail. Turned out much of the time including overnight and we’d often do long hacks.

 

[maya2008]

Yeah possibly but I don’t think it’s impolite to just say that or leave out the first pony bit entirely and just say suitable as second pony.

I get that some ponies really like jumping a course but they’re not bothered about the rosettes or winning surely? They would presumably enjoy jumping just as much at home as away at a show?

My TB figured it out - she loved the lap of honour and the frilly pretty thing. I was properly in trouble if I messed up and we had a pole (because it was always me to be fair!). She overall preferred dressage though - liked to be the only horse in the arena strutting her stuff so everyone was looking at her! Used to learn the tests then help me out if I forgot anything!!

Son’s pony needs the change of scene - arena hire mostly does it. New place, new jumps, new things to see, new problems to solve. Home before us had an arena and jumps - she was miserable, acting out, they nearly had her pts on behavioural grounds. She wants clear direction, no faff and regular off site entertainment if you want her to stay sweet. Which to be fair two people before us she had, and they did warn the next owners of this.

 

[honetpot]

I think it's just a reflection of one of the fundamental things where civilised society gets it so wrong - most allow the influence of others to train them to feel that positive feelings come as a result of success or achievements. Even though that doesn't actually happen, or if it does it's only a temporary 'hit' of feelings.

My opinion is that humans are, on the whole, so out of touch with what is actually important in life and have never experienced inner contentment, so most find it so hard to feel positive and truly happy for any length of time and have developed a society which leads people to focus on the wrong sorts of things.

Thank goodness for people like us who are more enlightened!

There is an obsession in doing something, our present society is based on the fact we have to do something and spend money. They do not want us to learn how to amuse ourselves, and have turned even basic activities like walking and cycling in an opportunity to buy the right kit, so you can do it better.
Some days I just serenely happy for no real reason, and try and retain that moment, knowing how fleeting that is. Perhaps its because I was the after thought child and spent a lot of time on my own I am easily pleased.