Novice Riders

Agree with Nightmare before Christmas.

It also stems from the fact that in a riding school the horse will usually follow the one in front, be used to the school environment and doing the same things over and over with people who are a bit unbalanced or do not use the aids precisely. Even if the horse misbehaves, you are in controlled environment and you have the safety net of the riding instructor being there to supervise. It's not in the case on a private yard/private home.

A "not for novices horse" might throw in a buck if he feels you are loosing balance over a jump, start to panic if he looses sight of the other horses out in a hack, shy in a corner of the school, be high strung, etc... Those things could make a novice rider fall off or get scared. There are natural riders that are confident and can hack out a horse even if they are a bit novice themselves.

Schooling is a different kettle of fish though, you do need to develop the feel and that takes time and a lot of lessons with a very good instructor and/or horse. Even some riders that are experienced/look very confident do not have that feel or knowledge to develop the horse properly and just use strength to produce an outline.
 
Hmmm this has got me thinking.

What sort of equestrian am i then?

I have been riding in riding schools for probably over 10 years, then I got the chance to take a cleveland bay on full loan which i had for just over 2 years before he has to be PTS in that time i had 2 lessons a week with a dressage rider, sucessfully shown horse at local level, was able to take out on country rides (able to deal with his excitement), hacking out all over alone or in company, able to lunge him ect. Then once he was put to sleep went to ride friends horse who was 17.2 Purebred ID who was a cheeky monkey and decided he would just canter around and around was able to sit whilst he had is little tantrum and then bring him back and school correctly with help from same dressage rider. Also ridden county level traditional for friend pretending to be 'ride' judge for her to help her correct schooling ready for the ring.

Also have a rising 4 year old Section D that I have had for just about 2 years now, totally unhandled. Have sucessfully shown in hand at local level and agricultural shows, taught him to lunge and long rein, taught him manners ect all that you would expect with a 4 year old. will be breaking him very soon with assistance of proffesional. However Im still a tad nervous of any new horse that I ride until ive gained confidence of that horse, always 100% more confident if I have my instructor with me lol.

edit - i would say im at the inbetweeny stage just after a novice IMO
 
Oddly I dont think the time someone has been riding has much to do with it Novice riders can have been riding a week or 30 years it depends on ability, confidence and dedication. I have seen young riders go from terrified to competently riding a variety of horses in less than 6 months I have also seen people who have been riding 30 years that couldn't ride one side of most horses. I does not depend on ability to jump high again many really good riders will never let the horse take all its feet of the floor at once but can ride a grand prix dressage test. Young people who are dedicated, willing to learn and listen to instruction are very often much better on sharp or forward horses than older people who recognize the dangers and of course have other responsibilities such as their own children, or a commitment to work to support themselves and others. These people are usually far less likely to want or to be capable of riding the hotter horses simply because they think too much of what if. So would I let a 16 year old share my hot horse well yes as long as they were able, listened and confident to do so I also insist they have their own insurance and their parents have organised it so they know what is going on. No horse is 100% as it is a living being weighing upwards of half a tonne so need consideration. No matter how experienced I would not let a rough rider on mine whether they were carl hester standard or just off a riding school horse
 
windand rain said:
Oddly I dont think the time someone has been riding has much to do with it Novice riders can have been riding a week or 30 years it depends on ability, confidence and dedication. I have seen young riders go from terrified to competently riding a variety of horses in less than 6 months I have also seen people who have been riding 30 years that couldn't ride one side of most horses. I does not depend on ability to jump high again many really good riders will never let the horse take all its feet of the floor at once but can ride a grand prix dressage test. Young people who are dedicated, willing to learn and listen to instruction are very often much better on sharp or forward horses than older people who recognize the dangers and of course have other responsibilities such as their own children, or a commitment to work to support themselves and others. These people are usually far less likely to want or to be capable of riding the hotter horses simply because they think too much of what if. So would I let a 16 year old share my hot horse well yes as long as they were able, listened and confident to do so I also insist they have their own insurance and their parents have organised it so they know what is going on. No horse is 100% as it is a living being weighing upwards of half a tonne so need consideration. No matter how experienced I would not let a rough rider on mine whether they were carl hester standard or just off a riding school horse
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'LIKE'!!!!
 
windand rain said:
Oddly I dont think the time someone has been riding has much to do with it Novice riders can have been riding a week or 30 years it depends on ability, confidence and dedication. I have seen young riders go from terrified to competently riding a variety of horses in less than 6 months I have also seen people who have been riding 30 years that couldn't ride one side of most horses. I does not depend on ability to jump high again many really good riders will never let the horse take all its feet of the floor at once but can ride a grand prix dressage test. Young people who are dedicated, willing to learn and listen to instruction are very often much better on sharp or forward horses than older people who recognize the dangers and of course have other responsibilities such as their own children, or a commitment to work to support themselves and others. These people are usually far less likely to want or to be capable of riding the hotter horses simply because they think too much of what if. So would I let a 16 year old share my hot horse well yes as long as they were able, listened and confident to do so I also insist they have their own insurance and their parents have organised it so they know what is going on. No horse is 100% as it is a living being weighing upwards of half a tonne so need consideration. No matter how experienced I would not let a rough rider on mine whether they were carl hester standard or just off a riding school horse
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TBH I don't think riding ability is the deciding factor when buying a horse, I think you need to be experienced enough on the ground to look after your own horse and I would always suggest that a first horse should know its job, be naturally well-mannered, forgiving of mistakes and not waiting to take advantage. There are horses who fit that description perfectly which are brilliant first horses because they are pretty easy to ride as well but there are many horses around which are not suitable as a first horse for some-one to keep on DIY.
IME confidence can equate to roughness in the inexperienced. I can't imagine that lessons at one RS for any length of time will give someone the ability which comes from breadth of experience to consider owning their own horse.
 
The OP asked about novice riders as sharers as well as owners, as an owner everyone has to learn and the only way to do so is to do it. Riding schools are pretty useless at preparing people as horse owners so where apart from sharing are people to learn about the horse on the ground. Lessons are key and not everyone can afford full livery which in my experience does little to teach people to handle horses on the ground. I would not recommend anyone to go buy a horse and just get on with it on their own but a lot is learned by having to do it yourself with expert help nearby. Horses are too cheap, are too subject to abuse but if it was any other way a lot of people would never afford a horse and would never learn and of course horse ownership would become even more elitist having money does not stop people being cruel in fact is may well exacerbate it as the animal becomes disposable
 
I tend to think about it in terms of horses I'd left you ride:

If I'd put you on green or difficult horses and know you'd improve it, I'd class you as an experienced rider.

If you could ride ('cope with') the same horse without coming to grief but not don't any good, I'd class you as a competent novice. You'd ride an established well behaved horse fairly well.

If I had to be more careful about which horse you could ride but could ride an 'average' horse without getting into difficulties then you'd be a novice.

If I'd only let you on gentle kind, well established laidback horse then you'd be a beginner.


Confidence, or the lack of, can easily bump you up or down a bracket. A confident beginner will ride far better than a nervous novice. And a confident competent novice will do better with many horse then even the most experienced of nervous riders.

There are VERY few horses who are saintly enough to be owned by a beginner and stay saintly. As pennyturner said there's a huge difference in being ridden by a beginner or owned by a beginner. In fact there's very few horses who'd be ok long term with less that a competent novice.
 
Kallibear said:
I tend to think about it in terms of horses I'd left you ride:

If I'd put you on green or difficult horses and know you'd improve it, I'd class you as an experienced rider.

If you could ride ('cope with') the same horse without coming to grief but not don't any good, I'd class you as a competent novice. You'd ride an established well behaved horse fairly well.

If I had to be more careful about which horse you could ride but could ride an 'average' horse without getting into difficulties then you'd be a novice.

If I'd only let you on gentle kind, well established laidback horse then you'd be a beginner.


Confidence, or the lack of, can easily bump you up or down a bracket. A confident beginner will ride far better than a nervous novice. And a confident competent novice will do better with many horse then even the most experienced of nervous riders.

There are VERY few horses who are saintly enough to be owned by a beginner and stay saintly. As pennyturner said there's a huge difference in being ridden by a beginner or owned by a beginner. In fact there's very few horses who'd be ok long term with less that a competent novice.
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Spot on KB.
 
PeterNatt said:
No novice riders equates to: I am over-horsed with this horse/the horse is seriously dangerous/the horse is unrideable unless the rider has a death wish/there is no one here who dares rides this horse so don't ask to see it being ridden.
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Not necessarily. Yes, sometimes people use it to mask difficult or problem horses but plenty of horses are not suitable for a novice simply because they're too much horse and are sensitive and responsive.

I've got a young ISH. Good as gold to ride, not issue or naughty behaviour, ever, but definitely not a novice ride. He's big, athletic, forward going and very responsive. He's been ridden by novices and was fine but I wouldn't trust them (or him) to just let them get on with it. If they got it wrong he'd potentially panic about someone bouncing about on him, yanking on his mouth. He's fine for a novice to ride under supervision and even had beginners on him but I'd never advertise as a 'novice ride'
 
Kallibear said:
I tend to think about it in terms of horses I'd left you ride:

If I'd put you on green or difficult horses and know you'd improve it, I'd class you as an experienced rider.

If you could ride ('cope with') the same horse without coming to grief but not don't any good, I'd class you as a competent novice. You'd ride an established well behaved horse fairly well.

If I had to be more careful about which horse you could ride but could ride an 'average' horse without getting into difficulties then you'd be a novice.

If I'd only let you on gentle kind, well established laidback horse then you'd be a beginner.


Confidence, or the lack of, can easily bump you up or down a bracket. A confident beginner will ride far better than a nervous novice. And a confident competent novice will do better with many horse then even the most experienced of nervous riders.

There are VERY few horses who are saintly enough to be owned by a beginner and stay saintly. As pennyturner said there's a huge difference in being ridden by a beginner or owned by a beginner. In fact there's very few horses who'd be ok long term with less that a competent novice.
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Perfect description!
 
So I would be a different level to every owner? I think I may look at a few "not novice rides" as the riding school I'm at doesn't put me on the most relaxed horses and I've learnt to deal with quite a few bucks XD but I just don't want to waste the time of any owners looking for a more advanced sharer.
 
Sunlark said:
Looking in the sales at loan horses, a lot of them are "not novice rides" and "experienced riders only". It got me wondering if this is down to the owners opinion, or if there is an actually definition for what a novice/experienced rider should be able to do. So what would you consider a novice rider, who would you let loan your horse?
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When I advertise for someone to share/loan my horse I always put "Not novice ride" because I don't want to be inundated with people who've had a few basic lessons and think they know it all - or like the woman who enquired whether my 16.2HH retired hunter wold be suitable for her 6 year old who had been having lessons for 3 months!!!

He's an absolute lamb really without a malicious bone in his body but I'm very picky when it comes to the people who are let loose on him.
 
Sunlark said:
So I would be a different level to every owner? I think I may look at a few "not novice rides" as the riding school I'm at doesn't put me on the most relaxed horses and I've learnt to deal with quite a few bucks XD but I just don't want to waste the time of any owners looking for a more advanced sharer.
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If you are honest about your experience when you phone to enquire then you will not be wasting anyone's time. If the horse owner is looking for someone with more experience they will say so. It might make a difference if you intend to continue having lessons on the loan horse, because then any problems you encountered you would learn how to deal with effectively so the bad behaviour did not escalate. You might find someone more willing to take you on as a sharer if you are going to continue lessons once a week or month. You sound as if you could be ready to move onto sharing a reasonably quiet horse. Just ask the owner why the horse is not a novice ride before going to view to help you weed out anything that you know would be too much for you. At a riding school you will not have been exposed to any really difficult or potentially dangerous in the wrong hands type horses. They cannot afford the risk of being sued.
 
Sunlark said:
Wish I'd been riding long enough for a nice horse like that but I guess it takes practice. As it is people probably won't loan because I'm 16 too, and only riding 2 years from a very non-horsey family just to help XD
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To be fair, as a horse owner, it's a very big responsibility to loan a horse to a minor (ie under 18years of age). Personally I wouldn't do it even if the 16 year old is known to me personally and I have first hand knowledge of her abilities and her parents know horses and the risks involved. I'm not casting aspersions on teenagers. I know lots of girls (and boys) that I would be happy to loan to IF they were adults.

I would be devastated if a (legally defined) "child" had an accident on my horse and was badly injured whether it was her fault, my fault, the horse's fault or a third party's fault. We had an incident at the yard recently when a 15 year old, riding her very reliable loan pony, took a fall, broke her back and may not walk again. I couldn't live with that responsibility.
 
I have not a novice ride on my horses ad because if you give him an inch he'll take a mile, if he has no boundaries he quickly escalates into being a yob.
 
Rhodders said:
I have not a novice ride on my horses ad because if you give him an inch he'll take a mile, if he has no boundaries he quickly escalates into being a yob.
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I wonder if we have the same horse? That's exactly how I'd describe my boy; rarely puts a hoof out of line with me, but needs to know who's boss.
 
My cob is a funny beast! I have had complete beginners on him, as in never sat on a horse beginners, and he is a saint. For me he does some beautiful work, but we have some 'discussions' over more difficult work on occasion.

However, put someone who over rides, asks the questions wrong, tugs him about, kicks him etc and he tends to either put them on the floor or grinds to a halt. So he can be a beginners ride, but he's certainly not a beginners horse. We use him to interview sharers for my sisters eventer (due to child). If they can get a tune out of my 14.3 hairy her 17hh tb horse will go nicely for them. :)

Note: he really is very transparent so we do call a stop to proceedings before people get decked...!

However, the number of people who just don't know what their ability is slightly scary. We found a lovely girl in the end who loves all our boys to bits who really downplayed her ability on the phone, but wanted lessons etc so we invited her along and best thing we did. Just be honest. Just because you jumped 3' once doesn't mean you can jump a 3' course tomorrow...
 
I would say perhaps until you are confident and used to riding unsupervised in different environments then you are probably still a novice because you have not experienced independent riding which is what you would probably be doing with a share or loan horse. I think sometimes people who can be very disparaging about novices and forget everyone was a novice once and experienced riders can get over-horsed too.

I think part of riding and horse ownership that comes with experience is knowing what to do when something unexpected happens.

My pony is very quiet but I am not sure I would trust him completely for someone's first solo hack unescorted as although he is 99% calm and quiet and responsive if he does see something he is v worried about he can spook or try and spin round and try to make a quick get away and on the very rare occasions he gets excited he can buck. Having said that though my sister says he is better behaved that most of the RDA horses she used to handle when she volunteered for RDA.

I know people who have cobs who are very safe but you have to be a very good rider to get them to go forward to canter or do any jumping. A very ploddy horse whilst safe is not always the easiest to ride if you want to get out walk which is not really suitable for a novice either.

I think when people do their adverts and say not novice ride it is useful to know why the horse is not a novice ride. If you have a straightforward sensible horse but just do not want to sell it to someone who is looking for their first horse then by putting not novice ride you are potentially excluding people who are very experienced and competent but just dont want anything really tricky even though they could handle a difficult horse. When I see a horse advertised as not novice ride I presume it means that the horse has a serious vice or quick that could really only be handled by a professional rider.
 
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I've had a few loaners for my girl and advertise her as 'no novices'. She's a complete plod, safe as houses and I'd let my 5 year old niece ride her off the lead rein. However, as I learnt today when she catapulted her current sharer into a bush, she cannot be trusted jumping. She's strong, scopey and fizzy when she sees a fence. She's also strong to handle, takes the mick if not kept in her box and can spook at nothing. I happily put beginners and nervous riders on her but wouldn't let a novice ride her regularly.

It's not just the ability to cope at present either. I'd not want anyone loaning her who'd set her back riding wise or who'd let her take the mick on the ground. It just means I have to spend all my time correcting what other people have done.

She is a novice ride, she's just not for a novice
 
PeterNatt said:
No novice riders equates to: I am over-horsed with this horse/the horse is seriously dangerous/the horse is unrideable unless the rider has a death wish/there is no one here who dares rides this horse so don't ask to see it being ridden.
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This, in my opinion isn't true.

Personally I've advertised my mare for share recently, mainly due to the fact I'm struggling for time riding most days. I've put in my add no novices and also no children. The main reasons for this being I don't want someone to come along and break my mare or teach her bad habits, especially jumping as I've been working on her striding/chipping in and don't want someone to come and ruin what progress we have made. Also when schooling she has the tendency to go round like a giraffe if I stick a novice on her. She can also spook and I don't want to worry about someone falling off. I also don't want to leave children with her, she can be a grumpy on the ground when having rugs changed etc.

I don't consider myself experienced by a long shot, but the whole point of me advertising for a share/rider was to free up some time, I don't want to have to spend extra time babysitting people who don't know what they're doing.

I've also had my complete beginner younger brother potter and trot on my mare so she's not seriously unusable unless you have a deathwish - quite the opposite :)
 
Well if that's the case I think I might lay off a loan for now. I think I'll stick to weekends at the stable and pushy school ponies for now :) it never occurred to me that many wouldn't want a minor on their horse, which makes sense as thy wouldn't want that kind of responsibility if there was an accident.
 
Sunlark said:
Well if that's the case I think I might lay off a loan for now. I think I'll stick to weekends at the stable and pushy school ponies for now :) it never occurred to me that many wouldn't want a minor on their horse, which makes sense as thy wouldn't want that kind of responsibility if there was an accident.
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It doesn't mean to say that there won't be people out there looking for help etc, before I bought mine a now very good friend of mine let me help out in exchange for riding, I learnt a lot, and got to ride some fantastic horses, and learnt my limits getting thrown from another friends little sod of a pony, I'm a better rider for him tho.
 
It not that I don't trust a minor its the parents I would be concerned about as if anything goes wrong then some parents can be really difficult.

Sunlark said:
Well if that's the case I think I might lay off a loan for now. I think I'll stick to weekends at the stable and pushy school ponies for now :) it never occurred to me that many wouldn't want a minor on their horse, which makes sense as thy wouldn't want that kind of responsibility if there was an accident.
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SO1 said:
It not that I don't trust a minor its the parents I would be concerned about as if anything goes wrong then some parents can be really difficult.
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Yep. Yesterday I had to tell my 15 year old loaners mother that I had let her jump my girl and she'd come off in what was nearly a very nasty fall. Luckily her mother found it quite funny but I'm sure it would have been different if there was some injury involved.
 
Polar Bear9 said:
It's not just the ability to cope at present either. I'd not want anyone loaning her who'd set her back riding wise or who'd let her take the mick on the ground. It just means I have to spend all my time correcting what other people have done.
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I agree with this especially when loaning, if you want to loan your horse out then of course you want someone who will keep giving the horse confidence, keep it happy and keep improving the horse. Nobody would want their horse going backwards in their education. I guess its like if you had to lend your car out to someone, would you choose the learner who'd only driven maybe a couple of slow cars in their time and barely knew how to maintain it or would you choose the experienced driver who'd driven all sorts and knew loads about the maintenence of it... no brainer really. So I dont think "no novices" means the horse isn't a novice ride for example, it could just mean the owner wants a certain type of person for the horse!
 
I think peoples own perception of their ability is very much driven by the environment they are in..
I had a work colleague who kept her horse at a riding school/livery yard, had never competed affiliated or done much inter-riding club stuff, and never been really in a professional horsey environment. Since they were horse owners and better than many of the others at their yard, they wouldn't have considered themselves novices at all
She has since moved to a more professional yard, loaned a schoolmaster and spent more time with more experienced riders, is twice the rider she was when I met her, but now KNOWS she is a novice!

I always put no novices on my horses as most of them are not used to being allowed to do what they want- and I definitely don't think they would be generous enough to continue to behave if they were given too many options. A true beginners/novice horse will not degenerate without constant tune ups.. I can confidently say that any I have, tend to be looking for an opportunity to get out of what they did perfectly the day before- but its a split second tiny reaction which puts them back in their box and this is what the novice rider is missing...
 
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