Novice riding my GP horse without permission?!

Not being funny but your horse isn't going to change its way of going in less than a fortnights riding. Even if you had a complete numpty riding your horse you would still be able to get back on and ride him to the level you were at before.

My horse might not be the next Escapdo but he is a lovely tempered warmblood, well schooled and consistently placed in dressage at novice/elem and show jumping comps at 2ft 9/3'0. He is very special to me and I love him to bits but I wouldn't care who rode him so long as I was there, I think it is really important and crucial to your riding that you ride as many different horses as you can, and I think its really sad that people are so precious that they won't share their horses with others. I would love to ride other peoples, and they to ride mine. I can understand your concern with being on holiday and him being ridden without your permission by just anyone, but it won't have done him any harm in the long run. i watch people ride my horse for a few minutes then just leave them to get on with it.
 
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GlamourDol said:
I have to disagree with the poster who said it didnt matter whether he was a cob of a GP wb. To the owner it is still a breach of trust, to the horse it is totally different
These horses by their nature are sensitive animals, and something who is that specifically schooled could so easily be put back by someone who doesnt know what they are doing, even more so, if it is new at this level!
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I think it was me who said that :) if so we do actually agree as I said that I would be fuming regardless but that for a GP horse I would be chopping heads off! I'm well aware of the sensetivity of GP horses ;)
 
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No problem other people riding my horses Applecart - with My Permission.

This horse was in the paid care, however, of the YO. With no permission for anyone else to exercise the horse other than the YO who was being paid to do so.
 
Thank god my horses are at home and ridden by me and my grooms and never have to endure having people chucked on them ugh I am quivering with distaste at the thought.
 
Skewbald1 said:
I've just come back from a lovely relaxed two week holiday, I've been having a very intense time at work and me and hubby wanted to escape for a bit of winter sun. I left my pride and joy, my 17hh Hanoverian grand prix dressage horse on full livery at my yard with the understanding that his normal routine would be kept to (it's taken years of very careful management to get him to where he is now). This consists of being ridden in the morning with either turnout or time on the horse walker, weather depending, in the afternoon.
I'll admit that I'm the type of owner to wrap my horse up in cotton wool and I make sure his every need is catered for but, to be honest, I'm generally pretty chilled out most of the time!!
Anyway I came home very late last night and went straight to bed. My boy is on full livery so he's been seen to today as well as I have had a lot to sort out, although I did drive up to the yard very quickly before making Sunday dinner to give him a love. I had a quick check on Facebook when I got home to find pictures of a girl on the yard riding him!!! A girl who, although I know on first name basis, don't actually speak to or associate with. I called the yard owner and she has totally flipped it on me, had a total paddy saying that I'm pretty much overreacting and that she can't ride all the horses she has on livery!! To top it off this girl who was pictured riding him has four of her own to ride anyway, and while she is by no means a bad rider, she is a very LW teenager. My boy is a typical sensitive warmblood (and has to be to compete at the level he is at) and if she had pressed the wrong buttons, I dread to think what might have happened.
The thing is, if someone had approached me when I was at the yard and asked if they could have a ride on Ernie I would probably have agreed to it! Obviously under my permission, but I feel a little betrayed that I was the last one to know? I wasn't even asked?
I adore the yard the rest of the time but this just isn't sitting right with me.
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I totally appreciate your feelings! I've got my best horse on full livery whilst I'm pregnant. One of the most important factors for me was who would be riding him, and there are 3 staff members that have my approval and permission to ride and lunge him, and I have expressly forbidden anyone else to ride before I have checked them out and approved them. I made this crystal clear, and I wrote this down on my livery contract. I'm not a high maintenance livery client by any means, but I hate misunderstandings.

Whilst I can understand you are livid, did you make it absolutely clear that under no circumstances was anyone else to exercise your horse, other than the person you gave permission to? If this was the case, then I would be so livid I'd move my horse immediately due to breach of contract. I don’t know if your yard is full or has a waiting list, etc – but even the yard I am at, which is a very popular one near London with fabulous facilities, Full and Competition livery clients ARE NOT easy to come by, so I would guess your YO would not want you to leave, as she would be silly to upset a full livery client like this surely?

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PS slightly off subject from what the OP is asking, but some people on here seem to be unclear on what full livery means. So for them....

FULL LIVERY is where the daily needs of the horse are completely taken care of, including ridden exercise, usually around 4 days a week. All feed and bedding included.

PART LIVERY is where the daily needs of the horse are completely taken care of, but the horse is not lunged or ridden. All feed and bedding included.

COMPETITION LIVERY is where the needs of the horse are completely taken care of, including ridden exercise, maintaining a level of fitness suitable for the type of competition to be done. All feed and bedding included. The horse is plaited and presented to a high standard when the owner is competing, and many yards will also compete the horse on the owners behalf for expenses (usually for training purposes).

WORKING LIVERY is where the horse is stabled at a Riding School or Equestrian College, and the horse is used for lessons, for an agreed number of hours per week. All feed and bedding included. The needs of the horse are completely taken care of, and often shoeing and clipping is provided at no extra charge to the owner.

DIY is when you rent a stable and the use of a shared field. The owner needs to purchase all feed/bedding, etc, and arrange & attend all appointments for vets and farrier, etc, and look after the horses needs 100% themselves.
 
Must add to previous post (on phone) that I am not a novice rider but have been asked to ride other peoples horses while they ride another or do jobs and I dont know the horse or who it belongs to. No idea if they knew id even ridden it. I left my horse for YO to exercise in the past when I went away, came back and found out others had been ridding it. Didnt say anything as I expected it from past experience and the two who had ridden her came a cropper and didnt fancy it again. I have my own yard now so its not so bad.
 
newera said:
PS slightly off subject from what the OP is asking, but some people on here seem to be unclear on what full livery means. So for them....
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As far as I'm aware there is no legally binding definition of different types of livery. Full livery means different things to different people, and seems to differ across the country. There is obviously no 'correct' answer which is why it is imperative that everyone knows how each livery package works at their yard... For some yards Full will include things like wormers, dentists, and for others it won't. Your definition may be the BHS one but it's rather patronising to suggest that it's the ONLY one IMO.
 
applecart14 said:
Not being funny but your horse isn't going to change its way of going in less than a fortnights riding. Even if you had a complete numpty riding your horse you would still be able to get back on and ride him to the level you were at before.

My horse might not be the next Escapdo but he is a lovely tempered warmblood, well schooled and consistently placed in dressage at novice/elem and show jumping comps at 2ft 9/3'0. He is very special to me and I love him to bits but I wouldn't care who rode him so long as I was there, I think it is really important and crucial to your riding that you ride as many different horses as you can, and I think its really sad that people are so precious that they won't share their horses with others. I would love to ride other peoples, and they to ride mine. I can understand your concern with being on holiday and him being ridden without your permission by just anyone, but it won't have done him any harm in the long run. i watch people ride my horse for a few minutes then just leave them to get on with it.
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With all due respect, a Grand Prix dressage horse is a completley different kettle of fish to a well schooled horse at a lower level. Whilst it's true that no long term damage is likely to have happened, it's all a matter of tuning. If the horse, who is competing, and therefore will be maintained exactly as the rider wants it, is ridden by a less able person, who will not have the knowledge of how the horse should feel/how the rider wants it to feel - it will knock the tuning out, and require a few steps back to get the horse back on track again. If the horse has a competition programme set, then this setback could well affect its next outing. Not ideal at all for a horse at this level.

When I was riding horses working at the higher levels, I could tell who had ridden them the day before - it's that easy to affect a horses way of going. OP has sad that the yard owner is a "beautiful, sympathetic rider" who is presumably able to ride the horse as the owner needs him ridden, without upsetting the fine tuning. I would be very unwilling to ride a competing GP horse, for fear of doing something that set back his training a few days.
 
Goldenstar said:
Thank god my horses are at home and ridden by me and my grooms and never have to endure having people chucked on them ugh I am quivering with distaste at the thought.
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And me :(

And I can make sure they are rugged/fed/handled how I want too.

I cringe at the day I have to move Fig onto a livery yard and deal with complete doorknobs on a regular basis.
 
applecart14 said:
Not being funny but your horse isn't going to change its way of going in less than a fortnights riding. Even if you had a complete numpty riding your horse you would still be able to get back on and ride him to the level you were at before.

My horse might not be the next Escapdo but he is a lovely tempered warmblood, well schooled and consistently placed in dressage at novice/elem and show jumping comps at 2ft 9/3'0. He is very special to me and I love him to bits but I wouldn't care who rode him so long as I was there, I think it is really important and crucial to your riding that you ride as many different horses as you can, and I think its really sad that people are so precious that they won't share their horses with others. I would love to ride other peoples, and they to ride mine. I can understand your concern with being on holiday and him being ridden without your permission by just anyone, but it won't have done him any harm in the long run. i watch people ride my horse for a few minutes then just leave them to get on with it.
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A fortnights bad riding could ruin a GP horse and at the very least interrupt the work plan in the short to medium term.
Fortunately this horse sounds like a forgiving sort of chap .
But the potential was injury to the fourteen yo and the horse on the road together chills me to the bone which is why I asked Op at the beginning of the thread has something happened while she was away to cause the YO to act in such a crazy way.
 
So Op is on a yard witha mixture of types/disciplines - Op pays for full livery but sometimes requires exercise - whether or not this was originially the case, YO was asked to exercise horse whilst OP was away. YO then let young teenager hack said horse. This was done without OPs knowledge and consent.

There is NO WAY i would be happy with this. If I paid someone to ride my horse and they then passed it onto someone else - irregardless of their capabilities (horse or rider) I'd be fuming. Whether there was no harm done or not. It's a betrayal of trust and I'm afraid I'd be out of there - I couldn't rest knowing it might be secretly happening on more than one occasion.

It's beside the point whether horse is currently competing GP or not and how often OP rides their own horse - YO still was asked to do a service, was paid for it - yet gave the job to someone else and didn't ask/tell the OP.

And AppleCart - if someone asked and I gave permission I may not have a problem with someone else having a sit on my horse. But frankly I don't see why i should share my horses with anyone just because it's good for everyones riding?! I may be 'precious' about my horses but I don't think it's 'sad' that I fork out an awful lot of money and work hard for it so that other people can ride my horses. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but that's my opinion.
 
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applecart14 said:
Not being funny but your horse isn't going to change its way of going in less than a fortnights riding. Even if you had a complete numpty riding your horse you would still be able to get back on and ride him to the level you were at before.

My horse might not be the next Escapdo but he is a lovely tempered warmblood, well schooled and consistently placed in dressage at novice/elem and show jumping comps at 2ft 9/3'0. He is very special to me and I love him to bits but I wouldn't care who rode him so long as I was there, I think it is really important and crucial to your riding that you ride as many different horses as you can, and I think its really sad that people are so precious that they won't share their horses with others. I would love to ride other peoples, and they to ride mine. I can understand your concern with being on holiday and him being ridden without your permission by just anyone, but it won't have done him any harm in the long run. i watch people ride my horse for a few minutes then just leave them to get on with it.
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I have to disagree with this as pretty much any horse that like yours is schooled correctly is capable of doing elem but to get a horse tp GP takes a lot more work and the horse can very easily be spoilt for example by a rider sitting wrongly. the op did say that she/he has no problem with other people who want to see what a GP horse feels like riding BUT when she/he is there and if you are away on holiday and paying a YO to ride the horse then its the YO who should ride it
 
newera said:
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PS slightly off subject from what the OP is asking, but some people on here seem to be unclear on what full livery means. So for them....

FULL LIVERY is where the daily needs of the horse are completely taken care of, including ridden exercise, usually around 4 days a week. All feed and bedding included.

PART LIVERY is where the daily needs of the horse are completely taken care of, but the horse is not lunged or ridden. All feed and bedding included.

COMPETITION LIVERY is where the needs of the horse are completely taken care of, including ridden exercise, maintaining a level of fitness suitable for the type of competition to be done. All feed and bedding included. The horse is plaited and presented to a high standard when the owner is competing, and many yards will also compete the horse on the owners behalf for expenses (usually for training purposes).

WORKING LIVERY is where the horse is stabled at a Riding School or Equestrian College, and the horse is used for lessons, for an agreed number of hours per week. All feed and bedding included. The needs of the horse are completely taken care of, and often shoeing and clipping is provided at no extra charge to the owner.

DIY is when you rent a stable and the use of a shared field. The owner needs to purchase all feed/bedding, etc, and arrange & attend all appointments for vets and farrier, etc, and look after the horses needs 100% themselves.
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I'm not sure they're unclear I think it's just some people call things different.

I know of a couple of yards round here where Part is like assisted to mon - fri mucking out but not weekends or mornings but not evenings. And other yards where full livery is everything bar riding, riding included is called Exercise Livery.
 
Wow, have only just logged back on and seen about 5 new pages of replies. I'm going up to the yard shortly so will see what the yard owner has to say for herself. The pictures are still on Facebook, and the yard owner has texted me this morning, asking if I am going up to the yard today, which is unusual for her as if I normally need him riding I ring her and tell her, she never generally texts me first!!
With regards to whether I had clearly stated as to who I had paid to ride my boy, while there was no contract, there was an agreement that it was to be her that rode him.
I voiced my concerns last night further, and yard owner continued to be defensive! After I said that not only had the girl got permission to ride Ernie, she could have pressed the wrong button and anything could have happened, yard owner replied with "I would never put anyone on my yard in danger, she was fine hacking him".
The whole situation has left me quite taken aback if I'm honest. I'm just preparing myself to face the music, yard owner has a very good way of making it feel as if I am in the wrong, when I know I'm definitely not!
 
rhino said:
As far as I'm aware there is no legally binding definition of different types of livery. Full livery means different things to different people, and seems to differ across the country. There is obviously no 'correct' answer which is why it is imperative that everyone knows how each livery package works at their yard... For some yards Full will include things like wormers, dentists, and for others it won't. Your definition may be the BHS one but it's rather patronising to suggest that it's the ONLY one IMO.
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Maybe the descriptions do vary regionally, but I know a lot of yards within the thames valley, south east area and this is basically how we describe it here, and of course, there will always be variations in the detail ;) :p
 
Skewbald1 said:
With regards to whether I had clearly stated as to who I had paid to ride my boy, while there was no contract, there was an agreement that it was to be her that rode him.
I voiced my concerns last night further, and yard owner continued to be defensive! After I said that not only had the girl got permission to ride Ernie, she could have pressed the wrong button and anything could have happened, yard owner replied with "I would never put anyone on my yard in danger, she was fine hacking him".
The whole situation has left me quite taken aback if I'm honest. I'm just preparing myself to face the music, yard owner has a very good way of making it feel as if I am in the wrong, when I know I'm definitely not!
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If she's still defensive when you go up there then I wouldn't even bother arguing with her but would find somewhere else ASAP.
 
Skewbald1 icily professional is the way forward IMO ,
This is not a friend that has broken your trust this a professional that has broken the rules , the code of ethics if you like that govern the contract between you and her she is defensive because she is in the wrong, you come across as a nice normally cheery type of person trust me every inch of ice will work better than emotion now .
She has done this not you let her know this in the coldest most unemotional way you can she must rebuilt the trust she must prove herself from zero point again of being worthy of caring for this precious horse .
Good luck , straight back and go girl .
 
At the end of the day it's your horse and you are the one who makes the decisions. If your YO can't or won't respect that then I'd probably be looking to move too. Sounds like you're pretty easy going about letting people have a go, but IME people can take advantage of that :rolleyes:

Hope you get it sorted and YO understands why you are (quite rightly) not happy!
 
I would look elsewhere and get him moved. Get the photos saved Off facebook.
I'd then request their insurance details. Riders insurance (for working not pleasure) and if they can't produce that, public liability. And notify that you will not be paying for the service. Id push that a vetting will be required at their cost if they push payi g for the schooling.

I'd be fuming about any horse being ridden without permission.
 
OP, I too would be very upset to find this on my return.

I can't help but wonder if the YO is being so laid back because this might not be a one-off? I would be asking her to clarify how many times this girl has really ridden your horse. I would also ask her exactly who would have been taking responsibility/insurance liability had the girl come off and injured herself. I am assuming that your horse is covered regardless of who is on his back, not that this makes it OK by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe she needs to be made to think about the implications a little more seriously.
There are so many things that could have gone wrong that it almost doesn't bear dwelling on.
 
I have a horse working at mediumish, so no great shakes, let a youngish girl ride him (18) she has been riding and competing all her life. she rushed him round in medium trot and nagged and nagged him, asked for canter and he nearly launched her into the middle of next week, worse that that the horse had pulled a check ligament when she got off!
result 5 months later horse still on rest.
So its not selfish not to let others ride your horse, depends how much you value your horse and your work!
 
PandorasJar said:
I would look elsewhere and get him moved. Get the photos saved Off facebook.
I'd then request their insurance details. Riders insurance (for working not pleasure) and if they can't produce that, public liability. And notify that you will not be paying for the service. Id push that a vetting will be required at their cost if they push payi g for the schooling.

I'd be fuming about any horse being ridden without permission.
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Go, Pan, go.....!!!!
 
I am amazed that your YO continues to play the 'what's your problem' card with you? How rude and utterly unprofessional.

I would be questioning if this yard and the YO are really capable of being entrusted with the care of what must be, due to the level you are competing at, a horse of considerable value.

I cannot understand, if she has genuine knowledge of the training and care required for a GP horse to thrive, that this would ever have happened.

It is like handing a Formula 1 racing car over to Joe Bloggs car mechanic from down the road and letting him have a quick tinker with the engine! I can't imagine the fine tuning would help the racing car engine any more than allowing this child to exercise your GP boy would help him either.:(
 
I would be making it quite clear that I would not be paying her for riding services, as she hasn't provided them, and also consider charging the girl for the experience, after all riding good horses at a centre would cost her a considerable amount of money.
Then I would look to move. I never let anyone else ride my horses, as I don't want them damaged, or to be liable for someone injuring them. My pony is different, he is easy, but your horse coulddo someone serious damage, which your YO should be aware of. How irresponsible.
 
My point still stands at what exactly did you tell/ask YO for? If you cannot remember or said something like, "Can you make sure Dobbin is exercised whilst I am on holiday"... it could potentially lead to a misunderstanding.

The only thing you can really do is speak to YO face to face and resolve situation. Getting all angry, shouty and stomping off saying I'm leaving yard wont get you anywhere. But I would insist on a refund for the payment of exercise costs.

Also edited to add... I wouldn't be going around to talk to her parents, nor would I be approaching this girl directly myself to say "why have you been riding my horse, you don't have permission, your a c**p rider." Also, you can ask for the photos to be taken down from Facebook, but I wouldnt expect them to be, as after all, the copywrite of photos is with whoever took them!
 
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agree with the others - way out of order!!!

FWIW - FULL LIVERY to me has been full care EXCEPT riding.....


schooling/competition livery is full livery + riding......


part livery is 5x days a week OR full care in a morning....


i wouldnt expect anyone to ride my horse on full livery........ but everyone calls it diff things i guess.......:)
 
My horses aren't grand prix anything but can be a touch quirky though both could handle a novice with supervision on the right day, but I love them the world and would be so angry and upset.
 
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