Novices and Young Horses?

Illusion100

Illusion100

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A friend has been looking for a new horse for AGES and just really isn't having any luck whatsoever.

Horses either too small/handling or ridden issues or just not as described, you know the drill! Friend was badly burned by last horse bought from dealer (proper bucker that took the mick out of Novice riders) and so is very wary.

Now, I have spotted what I think to be a cracking horse for her. It's got the looks and the temperament but problem is it is 3 and unbacked. I have spoken to the owner of the horse at length and the horse sounds like such a dude, really sensible and didn't bat an eyelid at being mouthed and having a roller on and never silly.

Not bothered by Llamas/chickens/cows/tractors etc.

Horse has been regularly trimmed/wormed all it's life and is vaccinated, chipped and passported, no previous health issues and full history known. No problems to load/catch/tie up/lead and no vices.

Now friend is not a complete Novice but is concerned they don't have the experience for a youngster.

I think that if horse is calm, sensible and pretty unfazed by new experiences then I can't see too much to be concerned about provided they have it Professionally backed.

Thoughts please! Good or bad idea to consider this horse for friend?

Edited to add horse would primarily be used as a happy hacker with maybe the odd Dressage test and tiny round of SJ's.
 
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My first horse, me aged 16 was a Hanovarian x Welsh 6 month old colt. I had ridden and worked in riding school so was very able in looking after my new boy but had absolutely no experience breaking etc. I did all the prep work with him and backed him but he went away to be broken in. Lots of enthusiasm on my part, very niave and didn't ever think things would go wrong. Horse turned out to be brilliant, laid back, never fazed by anything.

Fast forward 30 years, me early 50's been away from horses for over 25 years decided to have a few lessons and then as you do on a whim went out and bought a just broken 3 yr old Westphalian pony. Very rusty in stable management but sensible enough to have him stabled at a yard that supported both of us, pony is now 5 and a total gem. He wasn't the easiest at first and pushed every button he could but we have now clicked and I wouldn't change him for the world.

So yes it can work. What knowledge I lacked as a teenager I made up for in pure determination and now I have the sense to ask for help if I need it.
 
I also don't think it is a great idea. I have been riding for 30+ years so would consider myself fairly experienced. I have recently bought a 6 years old and am glad I didn't get anything any younger.
 
I don't think she will be able to fun with it. She will be having to teach horse everything, and won't be able to go on long hacks for quite a bit. Also if horse turns out to silly and needs lots of help. Also she would want to be having lessons with it to make sure they were happy and doing well together. The right horse will be there, just does take a lot of time.
 
I agree with others unfortunately, Im also in my early 50s and have pretty good experience with horse most of my life but when I bought my latest baby just coming into his 3rd year it was a big learning curve, he's a darling but all babies will push the boundaries and you really have to know what you're doing to nip it in the bud while on the ground. Like the poster above said, they need a leader (a human matriarch) and if your friend is cautious the pony will take full advantage, as sweet as he seems at the moment. I hope she finds something more suitable x
 
I could only see this working if she had someone experienced to help her - a lot :)

I bred a super mare, gentle and quiet an absolute poppet - she was a cow to break in - it took two seasons hunting to make her. However she did turn out to be safe enough for a novice in the end.

Young horses need confidence put into them, and for the right things to be done at the right time. I personally think she should keep looking for a schoolmaster type :)
 
Bucking the trend here... It depends on your friend. You can be a novice on many different levels, if she is a nervous rider/handler then maybe it won't work but I wouldn't disregard it out of hand. I would consider myself a novice despite owning Harley for 18 years, but having had a number of youngsters (not all ridden due to their youth, but all educated) I wouldn't buy a made horse now. I love the open simplicity of young horses, you may have a challenge everyday, large or small, but overcoming problems and educations the horse is a wonderful thing.
 
I wouldn't. I accompanied & supported a novice friend with the purchase of a fairly established 5 year old. Horse is lovely & very patient, but fast forward 2 years & I'm about to spend the summer getting her out of the bad habits she's now in because she doesn't have enough rider support for her age & training & now needs reestablishing again! It's not been a disaster & it's fixable easily enough, but I do wish we'd held on for an older horse now...

Eta: I wouldn't have entertained an unbroken 3 year old!
 
speaking from experience, it's a bad idea, after years of horse ownership and having experience of a weanling (companion) I bought a 3yr old cob, just broken in and I use the term literally, this poor baby, literally trembled at the sight of his tack, but there was something about him, so he came home, handling, he had an old head on young shoulders, nothing phased him, cue the grandkids coming to see him, my grandaughter (a novice) clipped his bum getting on, he took off bucking, rider came off injuring her elbow, pony stood on his reins, hurting his mouth, all parties had a huge fright, had to take the pony right back to basics, using a dummy rider, then our very brave rider, had no choice but to take things very slowly with him, during this time I did a lot of confidence building with him, walking him out, longreining, slapping his butt, longreining became a problem, with mini rears and trying to take off, knowing my limits, I brought in a NH person, who pointed out that my cob didn't understand what I was asking of him and was getting frustrated and that he needed someone alongside to give him confidence, it's been a sharp learning curve and we are getting there, but I would never get another youngster started by a traveller type, tell your friend to go for something older and wiser
 
Based on the initial post, the person who would be buying wants a reliable and uncomplicated horse to ride now. Regardless of temperament, an un-backed three year old is not that; it could be several more years before it is actually ready for ridden work. And the potential buyer already isn't keen on the idea as they feel that they aren't up to managing a youngster. I don't really see why anyone would want to talk them round to thinking otherwise; they sound as though they are being quite pragmatic.
 
Realistically, if the horse is 3 and at a relatively early stage of its education, surely it's going to be a few years before your friend can actually get the enjoyment they want out of it?

That's assuming that good temperament on the ground translates to no issues when ridden away- which it doesn't always (and the temperament doesn't change as the horse ages, as it does in some horses). Good, professional backing and riding away is expensive- and say 6 weeks at 3 won't give you a perfectly schooled horse. It will hopefully give you a safe baby who knows most of the basics. Is your friend happy to be paying for regular professional schooling for the next year or two?

Also, given what you say you know about its history, I'm guessing the horse has only ever had one home? Taking it out of the environment it knows and giving it a different routine may well cause problems on the ground that your friend doesn't want or isn't equipped to handle.

Given what you say your friend wants a horse for, I think actually a better option would be looking at older horses wanting a step down.
 
Terrible idea. You might get lucky, but its much more likely to go wrong than right. By the time she has paid for someone to professionally back it, could she not afford something that is what she actually wants now?

The majority of those horses she has found problems with were probably nice, unbacked 3 year olds at one point that were unphased by anything. Then someone saddled them, took them through the difficult bit, and the problems started to come out. With a youngster you have no idea what you are getting and what issues you will have to deal with. My 3 year old appeared very calm and unphased with the roller and everything in life in general before that point, but bucked rodeo style for about 20 mins when first saddled and it took 3 months before she was happy enough with it that I could get on. When a horse has done almost nothing, the fact that its had no problems to date is not a reliable indicator that there will be no problems.
 
Not a good idea... Not because she won't be able to handle it - it sounds like she'd have plenty of support - but because that's just not what she's looking for. Taking on a youngster, backing and bringing it on is some time-consuming stuff and if it's day-in, day-out, it can become a chore. Even if it does go off to get backed, that education is fragile and on-going. It's nowhere near the same thing as owning a fairly reliable slightly older horse that you can ride and work with from the saddle and train in a more relaxed fashion. She may even like the idea in theory - but unless she did spend time working with young horses and gained experience in that - I wouldn't trust her judgement. I think she'd regret it in the short term, even if it all works out eventually. And why have her suffer that when she can find a nice older horse in need of a good home?
 
So I adopted a horse from the animal shelter I volunteer at weekly that was rescued from a hoarder about eight months ago. She was at the shelter six months and got great care there but no exercise or training. I adopted her without being given the opportunity to ride her as that is their policy. I have had two other horses that went to heaven in their old age. My first horse was about 25 when I got her and my second was eighteen, both mares. This new mare is sixteen so I didn't expect her react like everything here is new to her. I did manage a few rides on her at first but now she doesn't want to let me mount her and doesn't want to even have her front hooves cleaned since she arrived. I can lead her fine now without her spooking but she still doesn't want even a saddle pad put on her nor me to even try to get on her. She loves to be groomed and fussed over. But I wanted a horse I could ride leisurely. Please give me suggestions. I am just plain afraid of her right now since she doesn't seem to want me to ride her. My mom and I lead her every day so she is getting exercise and we even take her to the local horse arena weekly so she can be free to run and play. Yesterday she bucked and even reared getting her frustrations out. How do I get her to calm down and be a pleasant horse for me to ride? My mom feels she has been trained in her earlier life but has to regain her skills. Do you think we need a trainer for her? She is great as a big dog to take for walks but I want a horse to ride again!
 
bad idea, sooo many stories i could tell you about novices i know buying/loaning young horses, none of which had a good out come, even with experienced people to hand, sorry
 
my friend does endurance and retired her horse she bought a young one she did all the prep for it and then very stupidly sent it away to a so called recommended professional. They beat him and said they couldn't do anything with him. He basically was young and didn't settle on their yard. Anyway she got him back he was a wreck she ended up with her teeth kicked out in hospital. Roll on 10 years she has a good riding horse with the help of a good riding instructor, vet and farrier.
 
Another one to buck the trend and say "It depends".

I was helping a client to buy a horse, she was mature and had physical issues, and wanted a steady eddie for hacking.

We looked far and wide, and discovered a whole load of rude and undisciplined cobs. She found and fell in love with a 3yo, backed 3 weeks ago, cob type but slimmer, cool dude. She asked me to come and have a look, and quite frankly he was gorgeous. We spoke with the owner and hatched a plan where the purchase was conditional on ongoing livery and schooling.

It has worked out perfectly. The horse is now a well behaved 4 yo, hacking and schooling, having grand kids on and qualifying for some flash showing comp with the previous owner at first show. One proud owner there, who goes up, picnics, watches schooling and showing, helps grand kids and rides and schools and hacks herself.

It is a bad idea in principal, but in this case the horse was right and the location and support was right..... I lost a client as the lady now does not need me (!), but I could not be happier for her as she has a complete new outlook, loads of pleasure.

The top tip here was that she fell in love with the horse, it was a "have to have", although she did say if I did not approve she would have listened. My agreement was conditional on the extensive support.
 
Personally I wouldn't as I did exactly this and it ended badly. Had been riding for 4 years after a long break, shared a horse for a year and did some showing etc. Decided I was ready to buy but I couldn't find the right horse anywhere and then my riding instructor found the perfect mare for me. Right size, temperament etc but she hadn't been backed and was 4 years old.

RI and I went to see her together and decided to try. I went to a supportive yard and had a professional back her at the yard. I had the intention of then hacking once she was ready and had breaks & steering. Unfortunately her temperament on the ground once moved to livery yard but way way beyond me, things got dangerous (kicking in the stable, rearing etc) and everyone ending up helping out an awful lot and babysitting me, which I felt terrible about. It broke my confidence completely, I was crying all the time (I never cry normally), I got to the stage that I couldn't even stand near her. She was getting worse and worse to deal with although the experienced people could handle her with a firm hand

I carried on paying for her to be finished in being backed, had someone out to assess her temperament, had the vet out to do a full check, had the dentist, farrier, saddler - literally everything but the conclusion was that she just knew she could walk all over me and as a novice I had no experience to fall back on to deal with it.

So I sold her to an experienced home at a massive loss financially and had never once sat on her as she was far too strong ridden for me to attempt even if I could get near enough to her! I bought a golden oldie who, yes, has napping issues but is manageable.

I guess I would really depend on how much support she has and whether supporters are ready and willing to carry on when it gets tough or frustrating. As I say personally I will never have a youngster again, its put me off for life. There are good ridden horses out there, it just takes time
 
I think it depends. I knew nothing about horses when my novice parents decided to buy a 4 year old trotter recommended by a knowledgeable "friend". Needless to say, he being a baby with not the best start, began pushing boundaries and so parents obviously lost interest. I took up the reins so to speak, but friend didn't like me, so I did it alone. Being a headstrong teen, I refused to give up. I'd never ridden before so my first real pace other than walk, was a fast canter through a forest as the adult liveries thought it would be funny. Well I've had my lad 22 years now and learnt with him - but as we grew up together there is an unbreakable trust between us. He's always looked put for me and vice versa but my biggest regret is not getting an instructor to get the best out of both of us

Roll on 2 years ago, I ended up taking on a 4 year old cob. I've done it properly this time and got an instructor. The biggest issue we have are bad habits I need to rectify and he's out to push the boundaries all the time. He's unbalanced in canter so throws in a nice big buck, he gets over excited sometimes, he's very delicate to subtle things I'm doing (ie, when we jump I, without realising, clamp my inner thigh, so he stops after the jump) etc but we have achieved so so much because I have stuck with it, have a great instructor and I work incredibly hard on coblet and mines relationship and bringing him on

I think you can therefore take on a younger horse if you are a novice, but only if you commit yourself to do things properly and working hard
 
Unbroken 3 year old + novice owner/rider = disaster waiting to happen.

The formula is: old/experienced riders for young horses, old/schoolmaster horses for young/novice riders.

At least one of the pair (horse or rider) has to know how it's supposed to go.
 
It can work, with a lot of help from experienced instructors etc. And it depends on the horse/rider in question, but it is not ideal.

HOWEVER in this situation I would say no. There are plenty of older, proven horses out there that can hack and do the odd dressage test and small course of jumps.
 
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Of course it sometimes works but if does not it's always the poor horse who life is ruined by it .
Personally often I find the budget is the issue when people fail to find safe older novice friendly horses . Horses like this have a value and they are sought after and often find homes before they come to the market .
 
Apart from what has been said already your friend will also have the time factor to deal with. It will take time for the horse to be backed and ridden away, then more time before it is hacking out confidently with hopefully no issues and yet more time before the horse is able to be jumped at all and again more time before everyone will be ready for their first ridden go at a competition.

It's going to be years really before everything is in place (assuming everything goes right) and your friend has the horse she wants if you see what I mean :) All in all I am in the "depends" camp on novices and youngsters, I disagree with complete beginners having youngsters purely because it could easily end very badly - and while we all know that any time around any horse potentially could go very badly, experience gained over time hopefully lessens the chances.

How experienced is your friend?

It can be done but if she doesn't feel confident about it that could translate through everything she does with the youngster. Maybe it would be better for her to keep slugging away with her search until she finds herself something a bit more established :)

Good luck to her though in whatever she decides, hope you give us a happy update when she is the proud new owner of her very own horse :)
 
Horses either too small/handling or ridden issues
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No three year old or newly-backed horse isn't going to have some sort of ridden issue - even if temporary.

Now, I have spotted what I think to be a cracking horse for her. It's got the looks and the temperament but problem is it is 3 and unbacked
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That doesn't sound like a good match to me at all. Don't presume that just because it's good looking and alright on the ground that's going to transfer to ridden work.

Now friend is not a complete Novice but is concerned they don't have the experience for a youngster.
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Anything other than completely experienced is not suitable for backing and bringing on a youngster.

Sounds like a terrible idea all round. Your friend needs an old been-there-done-it type from the sounds of things. If she's scared of a couple of bucks and a bit of micky taking then she'd definitely not going to enjoy a youngster.
 
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