Oats vs Barley

[Nannon]

Looking to bulk up my ex racer a bit - I have really struggled with mixes and cubes with him as he goes daft and doesn't actually get any condition! He's also barefoot so I want to keep sugar and starch down in his diet.
He's currently on 2 mugs micronised linseed, 2 Stubbs scoops speedibeet and 2 Stubbs scoops Alfa a oil, with pro power supplement, codlivine and seaweed - he's looking in pretty good nick for him and really chilled out. However, trying to build muscle with him and it's not coming, also sometimes he feels a bit flat and lethargic when schooling.
I don't want to blow his mind and over do it, so what would be better?
And what's the difference between oats and barley feed wise?
I know that rolled oats etc are popular, but I know some people soak them

Help!!!

 

[Polos Mum]

I tried barley rings and rolled oats last year to get weight on my companion pony, oats worked best for us - but this year we've been using soaked grass nuts - it's just grass so no cereals to react to, I'm honestly amazed at how good he looks and he;s not having tonnes either, it's only £7 ish a sack and I;d guess at being barefoot friendly (given it's just grass!)
It's like the pick me up they have from spring grass but they have it all winter - worth a thought.

 

[Goldenstar]

Oats are in my opinion by far the best grain to feed horses .

 

[elliebrewer98]

We've used grass nuts too this winter, just to bulk the feed up so they're getting a bit more into them. It's worked really well, my 14.2hh fine ISH looked a little thin so we added grass nuts and now she looks a lot better. We needed something to give more bulk to her but not send her silly (naturally very spooky)

 

[dianchi]

Cereals are all starch so that's not going to help with lower starch, have you tried something like Allen and Page Calm and Condition? Or any of the oil based feed toppers? Baileys Outshine, Rice Bran etc?

 

[JillA]

Well, oats and barley are both cereal = starch so will blow your low sugar diet out of the window. IME barley for condition, oats for energy but some horses respond differently and it can work the other way around. If you want to build more muscle you want more protein and short of all the proprietory feeds out there which mostly contain cereals and molasses, the best way is to actually supplement, with either lysine or whey powder. Forageplus sell various ones, and they also sell various mixed "balancers" which include most minerals lacking in fodder and grass. They are also very helpful with advice.
Can you get him really good quality hay and will he eat plenty of it - that is the best way, lots of fibre, lots of the essentials and keeps him occupied too.

 

[Goldenstar]

Oats are very compatible with a BF diet I have had horses bf hunting on up to three kilos a day .

 

[Mike007]

Oats do not just contain starch ,they have a fair bit of good quality protein too .Alsoa much higher ratio than Barley .Also the starch granules in untreated Barley do not absorb water easily and so are slower to digest. This is not good. It allows undigested starch to get too far down the digestive tract. Boiled,flaked or micronised however is digested easily. Oats fed little and often and top quality hay would be my choice,coupled of course with a sensible excercise regime.

 

[Nannon]

Lots of good info thanks guys!
Regarding exercise he's worked every day with a day off in 10 - oats sound the way to go from most of this.
Have tried c&c and many other conditioning feeds and none worked for him

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Oats have more fibre and less starch than barley.

 

[catkin]

If a horse needs hard-feed (and yours sounds the type that could) oats are the better feed of the two for most horses - barley can upset sensitive types. We have had a couple of horses who could not take barley or most of the mixes - they did very well on oats.
Oats do get a bad press in some places for hotting-up but I wonder if that is because the horses concerned actually don't need grain at all rather than the oats being a 'bad feed'.

 

[pippixox]

i used to never think about feeding oats as i believed the old wives tale that oats created a hot, fizzy horse.
decided this winter to stop feeding cubes which never worked that well- used to spend a fortune on conditioning cubes or calm&condition. now, i feed similar to OP- unmolassed sugar-beet, micronised linseed, alfalfa (i feed pellets not chaff), and OATS! have found neither of my horses have any bad effects due to oats, seems to help fill them up and apparently very good for slow release energy. they have kept their weight on very well this winter. it is also very cheap.
i think advertising and lack of knowledge or time has lead us to rely on ready made cubes, but i'm glad i took my time to research and switch to straights

barley- apparently that can be heating and also horses don't digest it very well, so don't get that much out of it

 

[ellie11987]

Oats are in my opinion by far the best grain to feed horses .

I second this.

They are far superior to any cube/nut I have used on my TB in the past. I use whole oats and soak them.

 

[amandaco2]

My lad is 150kg heavier on soaked whole oats compared to last jan. They've been great for him

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Always oats. The best. Feed them to my harder keepers during the winter in addition to alfalfa pellets. Brilliant.

Terri

 

[Nannon]

Are whole oats and rolled oats the same? How much do you feed?

 

[ellie11987]

Are whole oats and rolled oats the same? How much do you feed?

I feed whole oats as they supposedly retain more nutritional value as the husk is intact. I soak them overnight to soften the husks and increase digestibility. I feed around 1.5 stubbs scoops split between 2 feeds.

 

[Mike007]

Ok,now the science bit. Why Oats have the reputation of hoting up ponies yet stick a scoop in the feed of the average eventer and it has absolutely zilch effect.

Research done by a guy called Tisserand (peer reviewed ,and duplicated by Wolfe)shows that horses fed on a forrage based diet(eg hay) without concentrates will obtain a set level of energy per kg . Let us call this X. Start adding a small amount of readily digested concentrate eg Oats Let us call this Y units per Kg . Now logic would tell us that if we feed 10 kg of hay the horse gets 10x units of energy . Add 2kg of Oats to the feed he gets 10 X plus 2 Y . Now the exciting bit . Thats not how it works . Because the digestive system is primed with energy early on in the gut , a massive increase in energy obtained occurs. It is not (as in my example ) 10X + 2Y . It is 10 X = 2Y + 25%(10 X + 2Y) Or as we in the animal nutrition field would say : **** loads of extra energy.
But of course your eventer has already recieved this turbo boost to his energy intake so a few extra Y units make little difference.
Incidentaly this explains the little and often effect. God I can get so boreing on this subject!

 

[khalswitz]

Both are high starch - barley more so than oats, around 50-55% and 40-45% starch respectively IIRC. Barley therefore is considered a conditioning feed due to higher energy levels. However barley starch is less digestible than oat starch, and Barley has the worst calciumhosphorus ratio out of the common cereals too. Personally I'd choose oats of the two, but I prefer oil as a conditioner.

 

[Mike007]

I too am a fan of oil.But you wont get the energy kick in from your forrage by adding oil .

 

[toomanyhorses26]

My tb has oats as part of a bf diet and has never looked better - typically stayed away from them but am a big fan now

 

[khalswitz]

I too am a fan of oil.But you wont get the energy kick in from your forrage by adding oil .

I was initially surprised how much oil you can actually feed when you consider that it isn't a natural component of the diet - and I was trained very old school feeding oats barley, and (gulp) maize. Oil is so much nicer on the Digestive system than excess starch. And I saw some cracking effects of oil building up underweight horses when I worked in rehabilitation (obviously as part of a proper weight gain regime).

Yes it is a slow release energy source, unlike starch, but providing more energy generally in the feed does tend to improve energy levels, if not so dramatically - and unless the horse needs a lot of quick release energy (eg show jumper) then personally I prefer oil.

 

[maccachic]

Oats were magic for my hard doer TB I tried most high calorie type diets over the years and the change when I introduce oats and a good supplement was amazing to the point I didn't need to feed him over summer for the first time since I owned him.

 

[spotty_pony]

Baileys Outshine - non heating and amazing stuff!

 

[Mike007]

Sigh... If carlsberg made posts .... nobody here has bitched or moaned or tried to claw someones eyes out and we have had some serious input. I put it down to pure random chance

 

[dominobrown]

Hmm, I have too many horses and not enough money....
Just wondering if I could change my horses feed and save money....
2x horses, 1)ISH hippo/ event horse, big 17hh in a bit of work, fresh this time of year- condition is really good. He is blooming.
2) 15.1hh ex racer. Stessy sharp hyper type, looks like a deer in headlights most of the time.... she is not underweight and muscled, but not carrying any excess weight. Otherwise looking well, shiney coat etc.
Current feed- fibre beet, mollichaff calmer, cheap pony mix :O, oil (I can't believe it's not cod liver oil!), and kosslian blood salts.
Could I swap the mix for linseed and oats do you think? Will it be balanced? Will it suit both ponies? Will it be cheaper?!

oh- if I feed linseed I don't need to feed oil as well? Sorry for the post hijack!

 

[Goldenstar]

Hmm, I have too many horses and not enough money....
Just wondering if I could change my horses feed and save money....
2x horses, 1)ISH hippo/ event horse, big 17hh in a bit of work, fresh this time of year- condition is really good. He is blooming.
2) 15.1hh ex racer. Stessy sharp hyper type, looks like a deer in headlights most of the time.... she is not underweight and muscled, but not carrying any excess weight. Otherwise looking well, shiney coat etc.
Current feed- fibre beet, mollichaff calmer, cheap pony mix :O, oil (I can't believe it's not cod liver oil!), and kosslian blood salts.
Could I swap the mix for linseed and oats do you think? Will it be balanced? Will it suit both ponies? Will it be cheaper?!

oh- if I feed linseed I don't need to feed oil as well? Sorry for the post hijack!

Yes you could replace linseed and oats for the mix . I don't feed oil as I feed linseed at fairly high levels .
I am sorry I have no idea if it would be cheaper as cost is not really a factor for me when I choose my horse food .

 

[dominobrown]

I will try that then, the mix they are on is cheap but not as bad as some others which are sticky will molasses. I envy Goldenstar- I used to feed Blue chip and Allen and page etc. Now I work with horses I struggle to afford them!

The oil I feed is high in linseed oil anyways.

 

[khalswitz]

Yes you could replace linseed and oats for the mix . I don't feed oil as I feed linseed at fairly high levels .
I am sorry I have no idea if it would be cheaper as cost is not really a factor for me when I choose my horse food .

Agreed.

 

[leflynn]

I have fed all sorts and spent tons over the years trying to beef up my skinny sensitive TB, mixes/barley send him over the edge to the point of rearing, linseed is good but not enough with just alfafa in winter. I tried ERS pellets and they worked a bit but were blinking expensive in the qty I was feeding and I was worried his feeds were getting a bit big (plus he turned into a super sppok).

I switched to rolled oats (don't have time to soak always) and his is on 3/4 of a scoop once a day with 2 scoops alfa a oil and a large mug of micronized linseed and he is blooming and has put on around 12kg in 2 weeks Plus he has a nice amount of energy (any more oats and he becomes a bit too high energy for me and spooky again - he spooked at another horse when he'd been in all day). A 25kg bag nr me is £7.50 and will probably last me over a month so my wallet is happier too (was around £30 a month on ERS pellets) and I am not feeding so much oil so that is cheaper again and he is looking better - he also gets selenevite e as his balancer as nothing else seems to work for him and yea sacc.