Obese horses in showing

He is, but I think I would consider a percheron, or any of the heavies a very different sort of animal to a the absolute squareness of a cob, can't be letting them get too wide you'd have no hope of a saddle fitting! He is also most canadian which is interesting. I saw a big class at three counties and at equifest and most were in fine fettle, I was impressed with the hip mobility of the the rider of a the suffolk punch at equifest though!
 
moleskinsmum said:
Ready to be shot down by those more knowledgeable than me but I've just looked at the H&H gallery of winners and the Percheron which won the heavy horse title looks the picture of fitness for a big heavy lad. Not everyone's cup of tea I am sure but fits much more with my idea of what a winner should be.

ETA link http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/feat...1_XHH-X_NWL_EO&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ET
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I would have liked to have seen a little bit more gut about him but he is clearly fit and well and more than upto the job!
 
Faracat said:
Which horse? The only plastic surgery scandal I know of is the David Boggs one. That did not include a nose job. Specifics below.
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Giving horses tatoos is mad enough!
It was an american stallion of the padron line.

What people do to their animals to win a show is astonishing and quite horrific!
 
Are you thinking of Magnum Psyche (by Padrons Psyche)? He's mentioned in the report I posted and it was a 'cribbing' operation on his throat that he supposedly had.

I'm not saying that anything that Boggs did was OK. IMO it was vile and I would have handed him a lifetime ban from showing if it was up to me. I would hope that the punishment would be stiffer if it had happened here, rather than in the US (the rules for turnout are much stricter here than they are there for example you are not allowd to remove tactile hairs here http://www.wessexahg.org/sites/all/files/uploaded-docs/2017 AHS RULES FOR SHOWING.pdf see section 15).

I hadn't heard of a nose job and was just wondering if I had missed it, but thankfully I think it's confusion about the Boggs case and didn't actually happen.
 
dominobrown said:
Giving horses tatoos is mad enough!
It was an american stallion of the padron line.

What people do to their animals to win a show is astonishing and quite horrific!
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Depends on the reason for the tattoo. Some horses have very sensative pink skin round thier eyes etc and it has been shown that by tattooing it the risk of sunburn etc is drastically reduced. Quite often in the US particularly it is done under vet instruction.
I cant see why you would do it for any other reason though.
 
I don't have any further detail as that was the best reliable information that I could find. Of course there is a lot of speculation out there. However I will say that the charge is specifically 'tattooing of the eye' and not 'tattooing of the eyelid'. My suspicion is that that phrase could refer to colouring a white sclera.
 
Faracat said:
I don't have any further detail as that was the best reliable information that I could find. Of course there is a lot of speculation out there. However I will say that the charge is specifically 'tattooing of the eye' and not 'tattooing of the eyelid'. My suspicion is that that phrase could refer to colouring a white sclera.
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Or modifying a blue inclusion in the iris...
 
moleskinsmum said:
Ready to be shot down by those more knowledgeable than me but I've just looked at the H&H gallery of winners and the Percheron which won the heavy horse title looks the picture of fitness for a big heavy lad. Not everyone's cup of tea I am sure but fits much more with my idea of what a winner should be.

ETA link http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/feat...1_XHH-X_NWL_EO&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ET
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He looks like an absolutely cracking horse to me, and incredibly fit and up to a job!
 
JFTD said:
He looks like an absolutely cracking horse to me, and incredibly fit and up to a job!
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Ah but I know that like me, you like chunky monkeys who are fit and up to a job, ;) although I suspect yours are fitter than mine but he's still fit enough to do everything I ask! I was more thinking of those that like finer types.

But agreed that he looks cracking!
 
moleskinsmum said:
Ah but I know that like me, you like chunky monkeys who are fit and up to a job, ;) although I suspect yours are fitter than mine but he's still fit enough to do everything I ask! I was more thinking of those that like finer types.

But agreed that he looks cracking!
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Haha well I do try to keep mine fit and within some semblance of "normal horse shape" rather than resembling a block of wobbly lard ;)

I just wanted to say how super I thought the percheron looks, because it's such a refreshing change!
 
Faracat said:
I don't have any further detail as that was the best reliable information that I could find. Of course there is a lot of speculation out there. However I will say that the charge is specifically 'tattooing of the eye' and not 'tattooing of the eyelid'. My suspicion is that that phrase could refer to colouring a white sclera.
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EWWWW makes me cringe just thinking about it!
Tattooing of the eye itself is horrific!
 
Faracat said:
Are you thinking of Magnum Psyche (by Padrons Psyche)? He's mentioned in the report I posted and it was a 'cribbing' operation on his throat that he supposedly had.

I'm not saying that anything that Boggs did was OK. IMO it was vile and I would have handed him a lifetime ban from showing if it was up to me. I would hope that the punishment would be stiffer if it had happened here, rather than in the US (the rules for turnout are much stricter here than they are there for example you are not allowd to remove tactile hairs here http://www.wessexahg.org/sites/all/files/uploaded-docs/2017 AHS RULES FOR SHOWING.pdf see section 15).

I hadn't heard of a nose job and was just wondering if I had missed it, but thankfully I think it's confusion about the Boggs case and didn't actually happen.
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Sorry faracat- I haveheard this from several Arab breeders. I do know the stallions name, don't know if anyone was officially caught for it. Its happened in America. I don't want to name the stallion, as the people involved where never stopped. I know Padron is a common line now, and Padron Pysche's stock are everywhere, and have very nice heads, naturally it would seem.
 
I actually dont like a lot of the american and egyptian in hand arabs. They are too extreme, you could never get a saddle on one! And most arabs need extra dentist visits because of the extreme dish. You dont see it as much with old english and crabbet but the breed is going the same way as dog breeding :(
 
dominobrown said:
Sorry faracat- I haveheard this from several Arab breeders. I do know the stallions name, don't know if anyone was officially caught for it. Its happened in America. I don't want to name the stallion, as the people involved where never stopped. I know Padron is a common line now, and Padron Pysche's stock are everywhere, and have very nice heads, naturally it would seem.
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I haven't seen anything about this particular story, but there was something floating around Facebook the other day about a stud with Arabs that have been bred, bred and bred some more to have seahorse faces. I have no idea whether the pictures were photoshopped, but if they were true, they were quite grotesque. :(
 
I love Arabs and have 2 one of mine is 13 years old and when he was a younger he was classed as very typey as his very dished but he has a leg in each corner that dont look like they would snap at any time, his substantially built and is the most comfiest horse to ride, he looks nothing like a lot of the Arabs that are bred today some of there heads are so extreme even I don't like them they look deformed, a lot of them have awful spindley legs and no where to put a saddle it's such a shame because they really do make good riding horses but I fear many would not stand up to much work and that's if you could get a saddle to fit:(
 
There are almost different breeds- endrance type, racing type, ridden show type and in hand type.
Pinkvboots- yours sounds nice, they should have a good chest and be stronger than they look.
 
dominobrown said:
There are almost different breeds- endrance type, racing type, ridden show type and in hand type.
Pinkvboots- yours sounds nice, they should have a good chest and be stronger than they look.
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thank you :) I have had quite nice coments from judges about them and not Arab judges so they can't be to bad I mainly do ridden showing with them now.

Going back to the original thread I have seen quite a few Arab horse judges put horses down the line for being to overweight, I have heard them telling the owners that they were put down the line for that reason so I think it seems to be more accepted with certain types and breeds within the showing world.
 
Pinkvboots said:
I love Arabs and have 2 one of mine is 13 years old and when he was a younger he was classed as very typey as his very dished but he has a leg in each corner that dont look like they would snap at any time, his substantially built and is the most comfiest horse to ride, he looks nothing like a lot of the Arabs that are bred today some of there heads are so extreme even I don't like them they look deformed, a lot of them have awful spindley legs and no where to put a saddle it's such a shame because they really do make good riding horses but I fear many would not stand up to much work and that's if you could get a saddle to fit:(
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I was certainly not criticising Arabs. I have two PBAs and incidentally went to the Arab Associated BD Championships last weekend and placed 6th in our class which I am delighted with. I was purely commenting on the in-breeding that seems to go on.
 
nikicb said:
I was certainly not criticising Arabs. I have two PBAs and incidentally went to the Arab Associated BD Championships last weekend and placed 6th in our class which I am delighted with. I was purely commenting on the in-breeding that seems to go on.
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oh I know it's fine I wasn't directing it at anyone in particular just adding my view on things:)

well done ! do you just do dressage with yours?
 
Pinkvboots said:
oh I know it's fine I wasn't directing it at anyone in particular just adding my view on things:)

well done ! do you just do dressage with yours?
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Thank you, yes we do dressage, but she looks more Welsh than Arab, her other genetics include Appaloosa, so a bit of a mixed bag really. She is a drama llama though, so perhaps the Arab shines through. :) x
 
nikicb said:
Thank you, yes we do dressage, but she looks more Welsh than Arab, her other genetics include Appaloosa, so a bit of a mixed bag really. She is a drama llama though, so perhaps the Arab shines through. :) x
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that sounds an interesting cross, I have just had a look at the Arab dressage I didn't even realise they did this, apparently you only have to score over 60% 3 times to qualify for the champs I might consider doing it next year, where are the championships held?
 
Pinkvboots said:
that sounds an interesting cross, I have just had a look at the Arab dressage I didn't even realise they did this, apparently you only have to score over 60% 3 times to qualify for the champs I might consider doing it next year, where are the championships held?
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They are at Solihull. It was a lovely occasion, very well run. You also have to be a member of the AHS as well. There weren't loads in the classes but they were competitive and it was definitely worth doing. We scored 65% in the prelim (and it was championship style with more than one judge and flowers/banners etc.) so a reasonable standard.

Link to one of our photos..... https://www.topshots.org.uk/Gallery/#/Image/59d92dc39f24ed15fa22a043/59d92dc49f24ed15fa22a07a
 
All of Miss Russell's horses look like that grey. At HOY's they can get away with it. The ring is miniscule and the horses can go down the long side in a dozen strides. That horse wouldn't get half way round the big rings of the much missed Royal Show or Yorkshire.

It is perfectly possible to get a show horse fit, my horse galloped weekly when he was showing 2005 to 2010 and got round all the big rings easily without breaking sweat. Show condition is hard muscle on a horse with perfect conformation and it is work that puts a top on a horse.

I have followed the cob classes this year due to helping out with transport for a show cob this summer. The cob was fed like a beef bullock and was unable to lengthen the canter let alone gallop. Watching the classes I realised how many differing types were turned out as cobs. Of course cob is a type not a breed, and the variety was immense. Small hunters fattened up because they lacked quality to be a true small, common coloured vanners shaved bald and schooled in the hope to hide bone shaking paces, small ID's bulked up and big ponies hogged and fed to bursting point. At Addington there was even a warmblood complete with brand, hogged and fattened up.

So what is a show cob ? For me Our Cashel Blue stands out in quality and his way of going is superb.
 
AA it's amazing what types people think are cobs so just fatten them up as much as possible to make them 'look right'. It would be much the same as me stripping down a Shetland putting it in a show pony class!
 
I don't really like the term 'maxi cob'. It sounds contrived, a class for horses that don't seem to fit into other categories. Very few of these are true-to-type cobs in the pure sense of the term. Most lack bone & good depth of thigh. Some have fairly upright shoulders and overly-thick necks. And the heads are just too large for a cob. Where is the quality? Look at pictures of Grandstand, Superted etc and you will see there is little in common with these chunky, hogged Irish Draughts that seem to dominate the showing world at the moment.
 
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