Objective opinions needed

IrishMilo said:
It's really a how long is a piece of string situation isn't it? It could really be nothing forever or it could get worse, quickly. A specialist exam is around £400 which would tell me exactly what type of cataract it is, vision quality etc.

The vetting vet said she would 'have an opinion' on it if she were buying with her vet head, but also that on a personal level she would potentially take the risk given it's small and seems to cause no issues at the moment.

I'm still no more decided for having slept on it. Some people say not with a barge bole and others are sharing stories of jumping 1.20 with no issues!

What would be a reasonable deduction from price do you reckon? I want to say the seller has been great so far and I don't want to mess her around.
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The whole point of vetting is to get her vet head opinion is it not?!
 
I bought one with a cataract two years ago. I looked at lots (and lots) of horses, most of whom had major issues or were not right for me. He ticked every single box and I was gutted when the vetting identified a cataract (which the vet said could have always been there, or it may not) She said it would affect his sight but her feeling was he didn't appear bothered by it, he'd probably always had it. I weighed up the chances of finding another like him, and decided there was too much to like and that actually, he could get one of many issues in his life with me. So I bought him. We've had more issues with his feet that his eyes!! So I think, you can only mitigate for so many things and you can xray and investigate- and probably always find something. If you really, really like him, you can do one of two things: get an eye specialist to check him and maybe see if the sellers would reduce cost in view of this or you could buy him and (like me) accept that it is there but not causing issues, may never cause issues and just get on and enjoy him.
 
I’ve been asked to give an offer as seller would like me to have him. What does everyone think reasonable? (Please keep in mind I don’t want to take the P and like I said before they have been very accommodating)
 
I would definitely buy as it sounds as though you've really clicked with him and tbh I value a Vet's personal opinion rather than 'Vet head' as I feel the first is their true opinion and the second is taking into account risk of litigation.
As for price I do think it's tricky. You don't want to insult the owner and really the initial outlay on any horse tends to pale into insignificance with the cost of keeping them.

I would broach from the angle of insurance, owner also knows that he won't pass a Vetting.
What is he worth to you?
I would probably give 5k if I really liked him but if you're braver than me you may get him for less.
Maybe initially offer a bit less than 5 as she's sure to argue his price up from your starting point.

I hate making super a low offer as I always feel I'm insulting the horse 😂
 
Mmm, difficult as you say you can’t take the p, and most horses will have something that you will end up paying for! I got £500 off mine who had an dodgy eye, which I felt was fair as it may never bother him and I liked him too much at the time. I did have the benefit of knowing his owner and he’d been there his whole life so maybe I was a bit more confident the eye would be ok. Personally I would offer 5.5k but be prepared to pay 6k and explain you need a 1k buffer in case eye is problematic as it won’t be insured.
 
The eye may give problems - no-one knows at this stage - and the other issues raised will certainly require on-going expense to keep on top of. If the owner wants you to have him I would say that my "best price" is 5K and then just quietly wait to see what is said. No haggling.
 
IrishMilo said:
He's priced at 7k so I've asked what best price would be all things considered (there were a couple of other things pulled up, mild tooth decay and vet thought he was footy behind and would benefit from being shod on all 4s).
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Sorry but I'd run from that - footy = lame

Surprised a vet would OK a horse for jumping that is "footy"

Clearly you weren't able to be there for the vetting but just checking it was your vet not theirs ?

He's now gone from one niggle to three - teeth can be expensive too

You'll have a nightmare trying to get insurance with vet report documenting problems with his eyes, his teeth and his feet !!!
 
Seller “wants you to have him” says to me “seller is aware they’re pushing their luck trying to sell him at that price and know it won’t pass a vetting” they’re lucky to have found someone who will still consider it at after those findings.

There are problems with this horse, insurance will be a nightmare. I’d bet this horse stands the dealer at £2-3k if that, so I’d offer that plus a bit for their time. That’s the kind of price region in my opinion where less questions would be asked. Any more and people will be wanting to vet for insurance purposes. I think they’d struggle to achieve £5k personally.
 
Now it turns out there’s other concerns noted by the vet too, including footy, I’m in the £2-3k camp as well, assuming that’s what you can afford to write off if needed.

It’s admirable you don’t want to take the P, but don’t let the owners take the P out of you either… obviously I’ve never met these people so can’t gauge how genuine they seem, but “they want me to have him” could be taken as some kind of emotional blackmail (if I’m being cynical)
 
IrishMilo said:
He's priced at 7k so I've asked what best price would be all things considered (there were a couple of other things pulled up, mild tooth decay and vet thought he was footy behind and would benefit from being shod on all 4s).
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I'd be more inclined to walk away with that additional info, but that's saying that as someone who hasn't met/seen/ridden the horse.
Maybe take a punt at 2-3k like others have suggested, but 7k absolutely not.

Cataract - Potential £5000+ surgery
Tooth Decay - Potential Extractions and more frequent dental work
Footy - God knows what what could be, we've seen plenty of people spend much money on their footy horses to have them end up absolutely crocked, retired, and/or pts.
 
It's worth considering if you pay less than £5k, insurance don't require a 5 stage vetting. You could insure the horse for everything and they wouldn't know about the issues raised.

Interesting that the vet used the word 'footy'. If she'd said 1 or 2 10th lame would you be put off?
 
dapple_grey said:
You could insure the horse for everything and they wouldn't know about the issues raised.
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Sadly that would be insurance fraud

If the insurer found out they would certainly not payout on any claims and could take further criminal action against you for committing fraud.

While it might be tempting, it shouldn't be done without considering the full consequences.
 
Polos Mum said:
Sadly that would be insurance fraud

If the insurer found out they would certainly not payout on any claims and could take further criminal action against you for committing fraud.

While it might be tempting, it shouldn't be done without considering the full consequences.
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Fair enough. I thought it wouldn't be fraud as they don't actually ask for/require a vetting. But I see your point.
 
I do echo what others have said, I doubt I'd buy this horse *but* we haven't seen him and you clearly like him so for £5k I doubt the owners would be offended
 
Nasicus said:
I'd be more inclined to walk away with that additional info, but that's saying that as someone who hasn't met/seen/ridden the horse.
Maybe take a punt at 2-3k like others have suggested, but 7k absolutely not.

Cataract - Potential £5000+ surgery
Tooth Decay - Potential Extractions and more frequent dental work
Footy - God knows what what could be, we've seen plenty of people spend much money on their footy horses to have them end up absolutely crocked, retired, and/or pts.
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Tooth decay can lead to fractured teeth and extractions, which even under standing sedation can be 3k

Also, re the cataract....a friend turned down a horse she had vetted last year - it was for eventing and vet said that it could manifest in problems jumping dark into light and vice versa. Not sure if you event, SJ or whatever though.....

Personally, I wouldn't buy.
 
The seller wants you to have him because they’re now ***** themselves that they’ve got an older horse who’s ‘failed’ the vet and they might end up stuck with it.

I’d offer 3.5 over text, politely, give them time to think. Maybe I’d go to 4 if pushed but only if I really liked it. But I would be very surprised if they don’t take it.

‘Dear vendors, as you can imagine I’ve been doing a lot of thinking after the vetting. I really like the pony, and you are obviously really genuine people and I appreciate how accommodating/helpful/honest/whatever you’ve been so far. However I need to be realistic about what I could pay, given potential future issues.
The dental decay issue is not overly worrisome, but will need a full dental exam to see if there’s anything further, as the vetting dental is only skin deep so to say.
The being ‘footy’ behind is slightly more of a worry as although we are assuming it is just shoeing, ‘footy’ is sore really, so I’m taking a bit of a risk in case shoeing doesn’t fix it.
My main concern though is the cataract. With no way of knowing how long he’s had it and what caused it, I would be taking a huge risk buying a pony to jump who has a cataract. I know he’s been great with you, but my worry is what if it has only recently developed, and will therefore soon start to cause issues?
However, like I say, I do like the pony, but after taking into account these risks and the possible costs involved, I’d only be able to offer 3.5k. I appreciate this is less than you wanted, but it is a genuine offer and a very good home.
No pressure - but the offer is there. Thank you again.’
 
Polos Mum said:
Sadly that would be insurance fraud

If the insurer found out they would certainly not payout on any claims and could take further criminal action against you for committing fraud.

While it might be tempting, it shouldn't be done without considering the full consequences.
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Vet said the lameness was so mild she wouldn't even consider putting it on the report...

My home vet also said it's not fraud if you don't know what the issue is...
 
The need to mention the footiness would have me more concerned than the cataract, which wouldn’t bother me at all.

I’d probably offer 3k and be prepared to walk away. If they accept use some of the savings to insure for LOU and whilst it’s sound dubious it won’t be in the certificate, C’est la vie. It will mean covered by insurance.
 
This is perfectly written. Just copy paste and send it.

I would be a little concerned about the cataracts and probably check the eyes again during winter to see if there is any change. A friend had to put down her older horse this spring because of it. It was discovered in September, and she was blind by April. Keep in mind that the horse was 24.
 
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