Obligatory puppy pics!

Once again, Thankyou to everyone who has supported me, especially for the nice pm.
I find it a shame that this is one of my first threads in AAD and has been ruined by just one person. I understand that everyone has their opinion, but s4sugar, i dont want, nor value your witterings about the importance of my pup being kc registered or not.
She is the right pup for us and will have a loving forever home. Id rather continue posting with those who have more constructive things to add about feeding, puppy training and care tips. And if you cant manage that then kindly go away.
 
Toast said:
Once again, Thankyou to everyone who has supported me, especially for the nice pm.
I find it a shame that this is one of my first threads in AAD and has been ruined by just one person. I understand that everyone has their opinion, but s4sugar, i dont want, nor value your witterings about the importance of my pup being kc registered or not.
She is the right pup for us and will have a loving forever home. Id rather continue posting with those who have more constructive things to add about feeding, puppy training and care tips. And if you cant manage that then kindly go away.
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I don't care if the pup is KC registered but if not why not?

What matters is that puppies are produced and sold when the parents are not health TESTED, "health checked" is very different and that people are still buying from BYB and then responsible, caring, breeders get lumped in with the puppy profiteers when something goes wrong.
A good breeder should be able to give you all the information you need, in fact should already have given you all this information.
 
Everyone who wants to buy a puppy wants a healthy one who is going to live a long healthy life. To put the odds in your favour you buy a puppy from health tested parents, whilst it is not an absolute guarantee it does make it more likely. Dosnt that make common sense?
 
Oh and S4Sugar? I bought a health tested dog. KC registered. Both family dogs. KC accredited breeders. Top of the list. All the paperwork.

My dog was put down at 2 and a half. Its NOT guaranteed, even if you follow all the right procedures.
 
Cedars said:
Oh and S4Sugar? I bought a health tested dog. KC registered. Both family dogs. KC accredited breeders. Top of the list. All the paperwork.

My dog was put down at 2 and a half. Its NOT guaranteed, even if you follow all the right procedures.
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NO no guarantee but the odds are much better.

Really - you bought a fully health tested dog? Unless it was an adult it cannot have been. There are early tests and DNA tests available for some conditions in some breeds but most require the dogs to be over 12 months. KC accredited breeder (now change to assured breeder) means nothing as it stands and has helped a lot of less reputable breeders sell dogs. ( one of a partnership is the assured breeder & has the registered breed and another dozen are in the barn) The KC is now doing more checking. Many pet owners with two KC registered dogs had minimum tests done, ignored the results as all the scheme requires is that the dogs be tested, and turned out a litter a year with the pair and added the cost onto the price.
One item on my guide to buying a puppy is "If the sellers have both parents and are not active in the breed walk away." I won't insult your intelligence by explaining why.
 
I bought a puppy that was as health tested as it could have been - and as we both know, most of those 'tests' come from the parents scores, as at 12 weeks there is only so much you can do.

My point is that I came on here, asked the breeders all the right questions, asked the KC all the right questions, did everything as I was told and I STILL lost my baby before she was 3.

Now this time round, I tried even harder - and this dog is perfect. I know every dog involved in his breeding up to 9 generations back, all of their scores, I met him from 2 weeks old, and I count the breeder as a close friend. And its paid off. But what I'm trying to say it - stop biting people's heads off. It doesn't help when people have done what they think they needed to do. Whats more important is to educate people before they buy puppies, so they know what they're looking for.
 
Cedars said:
I bought a puppy that was as health tested as it could have been - and as we both know, most of those 'tests' come from the parents scores, as at 12 weeks there is only so much you can do.

My point is that I came on here, asked the breeders all the right questions, asked the KC all the right questions, did everything as I was told and I STILL lost my baby before she was 3.

Now this time round, I tried even harder - and this dog is perfect. I know every dog involved in his breeding up to 9 generations back, all of their scores, I met him from 2 weeks old, and I count the breeder as a close friend. And its paid off. But what I'm trying to say it - stop biting people's heads off. It doesn't help when people have done what they think they needed to do. Whats more important is to educate people before they buy puppies, so they know what they're looking for.
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Did you lose your baby to a condition within the tests? They are not infallible but they do lessen risks.
This time you did more research. I hope it works out for you.
If you check my posts I don't "bite peoples heads off" I ask why & then when they realise they may have been foolish and get defensive I correct their illusions/delusions in the hope that someone else doesn't repeat the error.
How long has the phrase "always see the puppy with it's mother" been plastered around? Just this week I've dealt with two families who've been "sold a pup" by puppy farmers - neither saw mum and one dog is not the breeding (or breeds) they were told.

If me being hard prevents just one dodgy litter being produced or makes one puppy buyer more aware of what goes on I will be happy.

Back out now to walk the two rescues that were dropped off as the family were going on holiday -that wasn't the reason welfare were told for them needing rehoming.
 
I am not a complete idiot.. i am quite confident that the animal i have bought is a quality animal.
Also, i do not feel foolish and you were quite rude to me in your previous posts.
At the end of the day i have bought the puppy, i understand what you are saying but for future reference the next time some unsuspecting forum user ventures into here for the first time, perhaps you should rethink the manner in which you get your point across.. as you appear very rude and abbrasive. And i for one certainly will refrain from posting more pics of my girl when she arrives. Which i find quite sad.
 
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Chlo had both hips operated on before she was two - both parents had hip scores above 5 (each hip obv) - yet out of a litter of 8, 6 have HD so seriously they have needed vet intervention. Parents scores fine - but no grandparents etc. scores.

She also had recurrent ear infections and skin infections (as did her dad - but later found out dad was always bathed before we visited so he looked fine - how was I meant to know that?) - as did another 5 puppies.

And then eventually, her organs started to shut down and we put her out of her suffering before she got really poorly. She was such a sickly dog, it wasn't fair to put her through any more.

And yet, they're still top breeders on KC!!
 
Toast I do see your point of view, and I know you are not the first person who feels they have been attacked when innocently posting about a new pup. I hope you hang around here because you will find a lot of support and helpful advice, as I am sure you have already realised if you have received Caylas puppy guide.
In defence of s4sugar and others, including myself, who try really hard to guide people who asking for advice in choosing a puppy - it is really frustrating when so many people still buy from non health tested parents. I am not a big fan of the KC but they are attempting to improve things by stressing how important these tests are and yet it seems the message isn't getting through. KC registration is certainly not the be all and end all, but at least it give some traceablity, however if KC reg dogs aren't health tested then the registration isn't worth the paper it is written on.
Tbh if you had come on here and said you were considering buying a rottie pup, I would have urged you to choose very carefully from low scoring parents, as rotties can have problems. However, you have your pup, who looks gorgeous and I think it is far better to offer advice to you now (as I did in your other thread re feeding) rather than have a go. Please keep us updated on Ella's progress.
Cedars, if Chloes breeder was a KC Assured Breeder (which I presume is what you mean) and 6 out of a litter of 8 had hip problems then I hope you notified the KC . Did the breeder offer you a refund or another puppy? I'm glad Bracken has turned out so well, how old is he now, he must be nearly old enough to be hip scored I imagine.
 
Hey Toast, don't be put off posting. Pup looks very sweet, don't they all :D

For a large weight-bearing breed I would always advise purchasing from several generations of low hip scored parents, if not also elbow scored, both are do-able for a few hundred smackaroos and is not a massive outlay for a breeder charging something similar for one pup from the litter, but you live and learn and hopefully your dog will live a long, healthy and happy life.

Best of luck with her, people do get strident on here, but only because some of them see the darker sides of the dog breeding industry and like I say, don't be put off posting and best of luck with her.

As mentioned, where the pedigree is recorded, at least you can look at it and say 'well, I can avoid those lines again' - my older dog is bred in the purple (well, the pink, he has his pink papers from Germany) good hips, from five generations of top winning, breed surveyed, low hip and elbow scored relatives. And he has turned out to be a bit of a train wreck in terms of skin conditions, dodgy back and character not that strong, but at least I can say 'not touching a combination of those lines again with a bargepole!' because I actually know what they are.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Breeder (which I presume is what you mean) and 6 out of a litter of 8 had hip problems then I hope you notified the KC . Did the breeder offer you a refund or another puppy? I'm glad Bracken has turned out so well, how old is he now, he must be nearly old enough to be hip scored I imagine.
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I did notify the KC - they were completely uninterested. I notified them when Chlo was first diagnosed, then when I found out all the lies I'd been told, then when Chlo died (that one was just in anger :( oops) and they were completely uninterested. Though I have been told they are getting more 'on the case' about stuff like this now.

Bracken, thankfully, is absolutely superb. He's a year and 4 months now - we aren't having him hip scored (pointless anaesthetic), but two of the siblings have been (so far - breeder in touch with all pups still) and one brother was 3 & 4, and the other was 1 & 2.

We're top of the list for a sister next time she breeds - which will be Feb. Eeekkk :)

Sorry for the thread hijack!
 
Your choice of course re hips but they don't have to have a GA, they can be done under sedation. If the breeder didn't offer you any sort of recompense with regard to Chloe (and I know it wouldn't have made any difference to the heartbreak) I am very surprised the KC weren't interested if they are an Assured Breeder, seems they still have a long way to go.
 
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