Obsessive Worriers Anonymous...

[NiceChristmasBaubles]

Nothing to stop you lopping off a bit more every week! I can't do lines so everything comes off mine asap... And now you'll have nothing to worry about this year either

Weather is vile. I know it's October, I'm not really complaining, but I don't much care for this mud!

My downfall last year was taking it all off because I couldn't get a straight line. Sorry I also added a bit to my previous post after you responded:

ETA I really do find that repetition does help and the more you do it the better it will become. Especially if you can keep going back to the same place again and again. Someone earlier mentioned about not entering till the day, I find the opposite works with me. Once I have entered I can then plan my practice etc. and count down the mini targets I need to get through before the next competition. Most of the time these days I really enjoy my riding, just in case it sounds like I am putting myself through torture, there are just little blips and new things that I have to get through. x

 

[Bernster]

*raises hands and waves madly from the back of the room* Hello, hello, can I join the party too please?!

First of all, I thought there was a lot to like in that round. Definately not what I was expecting to see - no chicken wings, no flopping about, not refusals, nada! So don't be so tough on yourself!

I certainly haven't cracked it but I've tried a few things which help me along the way. I've done a confidence clinic, tons of lessons and things, even a session of hypnotherapy (and I don't hug trees or nuffink).

What's worked for me:

1 - delaying the worrying until nearer the time. No point worrying now, I can do that in a few days at the event, so put that away until later. Actually worked, as I realised otherwise I wouldn't sleep and would get myself in a tizz, so might as well just put that off until the day of the comp.
2 - embrace the nerves - I will be nervous, I accept that's the case and it's part of the process, but I will be fine once I'm in there and I will love it when we're done.
3 - in fact, those feelings I am having are not nerves at all, that's excitement I'm feeling. I'm looking forward to it, I'm excited, this is a good feeling...(repeat ad nauseum until brain accepts it or gets fed up and wanders off). Think that's similar to the NLP you were talking about.
4 - breathe, count backwards, sing, whatever it takes to keep your mind off topic and away from fiddling with the horse and over-riding.
5 - jump much bigger at home some fences look tiddly in comparison.
6 - do lots of course hire and venue practice, and clear rounds - not sure if you think this has worked for you and I've never really done this regularly enough to know if it gets better the more you do, but I'm assuming that has to be the case, particularly if you use the same venue over and over?
7 - port, sloe gin and other alcholic beverages - I'm not a drinker but I have tried this out hunting. Not sure it worked for the nerves but it did make me mildy squiffy.
8 - buy a horse that absolutely loves her jumping and will throw herself gaily over everything with a fabulous jump, occasionally even if you weren't intending to jump it (and frighten the pants off your instructor in the process). Slightly drastic one that, maybe try some of the above suggestions first hehe.

Norton Heath isn't that far from me and I've decided to focus on sj this winter, as am v rusty - lemme know if you want some company over the ickle fences

 

[NiceChristmasBaubles]

Actually Bernster, a lot of that makes sense. I guess with your #1 I do that by breaking down the steps I need to get through before a comp/new experience so I break the worry down into chunks as well which makes it more manageable. So although JFTD you're talking about jumping and I do dressage, you could still do practising turning with poles on the ground one day, then a little grid another etc., then if you can just hire the arena with no jumps or just do pole work. Bitesize pieces.

 

[Bernster]

Actually Bernster, a lot of that makes sense. I guess with your #1 I do that by breaking down the steps I need to get through before a comp/new experience so I break the worry down into chunks as well which makes it more manageable. So although JFTD you're talking about jumping and I do dressage, you could still do practising turning with poles on the ground one day, then a little grid another etc., then if you can just hire the arena with no jumps or just do pole work. Bitesize pieces.

Haha - there's probably several 'undred quids worth of advice in there, that I've gleaned from professionals along the way !

The thing I find odd, but strangely comforting, about all of this, is that we still do it. No-one forces us to yet we continue to challenge ourselves and occasionally scare ourselves silly, by choice. That's also why I try not to get too bothered about being bothered, iykwim, cos I know I will always be like this where horses are concerned!

 

[JFTDWS]

The fences do look big in there, I always thought Longwood courses seemed smaller I also tended to fall off a lot at Norton Heath! ha!ha! your welcome to come and have a try, here he is at the BE event, and I am about 5'5/5'6 so I am not that small!! http://www.onlinepictureproof.com/1...se_trials_2013/380452/browse/237/?w=800&h=477 I do really like Highlands, I rode a youngster for a while

It also might be worth saving up to have a lesson or hiring an arena with a confidence giving friend so you can have a play without the pressure, what about hiring the arena for an hour at Norton Heath? You can then get him flowing, forward and confident over one fence and build it up to a course

Oh dear, I didn't mean to just invite myself to ride your horse :eek3: He's lovely, but crikey, he must be part bred elephant or something? He looks ginormous!

Longwood have a rep for (and in the limited experience I've had genuinely do) building courses very underheight. Perhaps less so BS, but unaff it was always bit of an experiment to what size you'd find! I think it's a thing of the past though - aren't they building on the land now?! I use NHEC as it's literally 5 mins up the road from me and with the economy drive, I reallly ought to suck it up and deal with it for the sake of diesel prices!

I have been saying forever that I want to hire out an arena at NHEC. It is definitely something I should do. Don't really have any confidence giving friends in the area though (unless angua2 wants to come play!) so will probably still be on our own!!

My downfall last year was taking it all off because I couldn't get a straight line. Sorry I also added a bit to my previous post after you responded:

ETA I really do find that repetition does help and the more you do it the better it will become. Especially if you can keep going back to the same place again and again. Someone earlier mentioned about not entering till the day, I find the opposite works with me. Once I have entered I can then plan my practice etc. and count down the mini targets I need to get through before the next competition. Most of the time these days I really enjoy my riding, just in case it sounds like I am putting myself through torture, there are just little blips and new things that I have to get through. x

Yep I definitely missed that! I think sorting our issues at one place (particularly somewhere like NHEC where the 70cm is about as bad as a 70cm sj course can get, height wise) will make it much easier for us to transfer it on to new places. Repetition definitely seems to be the key here!

I hate entering in advance as I always feel like it's tempting fate for the pony to go lame! (madness I know!) So I leave it till the last minute, then forget, and then end up not going - this is why I so rarely do dressage! But again, your logic there seems perfectly rational - perhaps I should do it more and see what happens.

Hmm, I should also add that I do actually enjoy riding, and jumping. It's not all doom and gloom, honest! I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to

 

[Baggybreeches]

I agree with Susie T mostly, but the thing that struck me before you even jumped a fence was the absence of a 'plan'. Part of most (if not all) sports psychology traits is having prepared the best you can and having a plan. You just seemed to wander around for far longer than necessary and the first canter up the school didn't seem to have much purpose. How about trying to find what works for you over a smaller course instead of feeling like you are constantly trying to conquer demons? Other comments are that your pony looks incredibly genuine and without wishing to be rude there is a 'physical' restriction on the way he will jump, lots of natives/cobs jump that way it's not realistic to expect him to jump like a warmblood, all you can do is allow him to make his job as easy as possible.

 

[Liane]

Well if I am heading that way i will give you a shout (my family live that way) if you want to hire the arena and want a hand oh yes he is part elephant, well that or part cow!!! ;-) my instructor laughs that my feet barely come past my saddle flaps, no wonder I find it easy to bounce off! if your down my way (Sussex) your more than welcome to come and have a ride

I must say having people around you who do similar stuff and you all egg each other on is also definately helpful, I know that is difficult in your situation though.

 

[JFTDWS]

*raises hands and waves madly from the back of the room* Hello, hello, can I join the party too please?!

First of all, I thought there was a lot to like in that round. Definately not what I was expecting to see - no chicken wings, no flopping about, not refusals, nada! So don't be so tough on yourself!

I certainly haven't cracked it but I've tried a few things which help me along the way. I've done a confidence clinic, tons of lessons and things, even a session of hypnotherapy (and I don't hug trees or nuffink).

What's worked for me:

1 - delaying the worrying until nearer the time. No point worrying now, I can do that in a few days at the event, so put that away until later. Actually worked, as I realised otherwise I wouldn't sleep and would get myself in a tizz, so might as well just put that off until the day of the comp.
2 - embrace the nerves - I will be nervous, I accept that's the case and it's part of the process, but I will be fine once I'm in there and I will love it when we're done.
3 - in fact, those feelings I am having are not nerves at all, that's excitement I'm feeling. I'm looking forward to it, I'm excited, this is a good feeling...(repeat ad nauseum until brain accepts it or gets fed up and wanders off). Think that's similar to the NLP you were talking about.
4 - breathe, count backwards, sing, whatever it takes to keep your mind off topic and away from fiddling with the horse and over-riding.
5 - jump much bigger at home some fences look tiddly in comparison.
6 - do lots of course hire and venue practice, and clear rounds - not sure if you think this has worked for you and I've never really done this regularly enough to know if it gets better the more you do, but I'm assuming that has to be the case, particularly if you use the same venue over and over?
7 - port, sloe gin and other alcholic beverages - I'm not a drinker but I have tried this out hunting. Not sure it worked for the nerves but it did make me mildy squiffy.
8 - buy a horse that absolutely loves her jumping and will throw herself gaily over everything with a fabulous jump, occasionally even if you weren't intending to jump it (and frighten the pants off your instructor in the process). Slightly drastic one that, maybe try some of the above suggestions first hehe.

Norton Heath isn't that far from me and I've decided to focus on sj this winter, as am v rusty - lemme know if you want some company over the ickle fences

Bernster, I think I love you - what a great post! (and not just because you were being nice about my round!)

1. I hate the sleepless nights before a competition way more than the competition nerves themselves! Not been an issue for CRs so far - and I've just realised why - I have budgetted one round (i.e. I will not decide to do a second bigger round for reasons not relating to fear) and one round of 70cm is all I will have to do. If I'm doing something more out of our comfort zone, or something (like school hire) where I control the heights, I fear more my desire to keep putting them up until we hit a problem. I think I'm scared of myself? Does that sound crazy?

2 and 3 - these kinda tie together - the nerves are good, they are just excitement. I like it. I shall try that next time (sadly not next week though to break our routine...). I really like that!

4. That's my plan with the talking. I found myself saying "ride the line, not the fence" on Monday - not sure where I picked itup from but it helped me look up and stop fiddling into the fences?!

5. Damn it, we jump up to around a metre at home, will happily enough jump 90cm spreads - so why do 70cm fences look big?! Will just have to jump bigger next spring when my field dries up

6. This is my master plan - endless CRs, throw in some clinics and stuff and hope for the best. I'll let you know if it works! I'm on week 3 of CRs and this week I was much more nervous than any other and fulfilled it by hitting the deck in the warm up

7. I wish - I'm always driving! But I did spend the weekend at Thetford last month and spent a lot of time hacking by ourselves with a hip flask. I wondered why I was so chilled about hacking alone with him

8. HA!! I'm not giving up on Fergs just yet

Thanks, and thanks for the offer there - I'd love company some time, we do like meeting new people and ponies

Actually Bernster, a lot of that makes sense. I guess with your #1 I do that by breaking down the steps I need to get through before a comp/new experience so I break the worry down into chunks as well which makes it more manageable. So although JFTD you're talking about jumping and I do dressage, you could still do practising turning with poles on the ground one day, then a little grid another etc., then if you can just hire the arena with no jumps or just do pole work. Bitesize pieces.

My issue is I know I won't stick to it - I'll just whack 'em up and do it anyway. Which is fine when I'm doing it, but not when I'm worrying about it before hand! Perfectly logical - but my lack of self control makes it a bit of an issue!

Haha - there's probably several 'undred quids worth of advice in there, that I've gleaned from professionals along the way !

The thing I find odd, but strangely comforting, about all of this, is that we still do it. No-one forces us to yet we continue to challenge ourselves and occasionally scare ourselves silly, by choice. That's also why I try not to get too bothered about being bothered, iykwim, cos I know I will always be like this where horses are concerned!

You should charge for that advice

It's an odd phenomenon, isn't it? I don't seem to be happy unless I'm stressing about some upcoming equestrian event :eek3:

 

[JFTDWS]

I agree with Susie T mostly, but the thing that struck me before you even jumped a fence was the absence of a 'plan'. Part of most (if not all) sports psychology traits is having prepared the best you can and having a plan. You just seemed to wander around for far longer than necessary and the first canter up the school didn't seem to have much purpose. How about trying to find what works for you over a smaller course instead of feeling like you are constantly trying to conquer demons? Other comments are that your pony looks incredibly genuine and without wishing to be rude there is a 'physical' restriction on the way he will jump, lots of natives/cobs jump that way it's not realistic to expect him to jump like a warmblood, all you can do is allow him to make his job as easy as possible.

I was wandering because there were people coming in and out of the arena and I'd have run them over on my way to the first fence I picked up canter, the transition was rubbish and the canter was meh, so I re-routed up the arena to try and get it back together. I tried to turn between two fences and realised there wasn't enough space so we came back to walk and picked up canter again and started. It may have looked aimless, but it honestly wasn't!

I think my point is that 70cm shouldn't be conquering demons - the pony is capable (and, whether I believe it or not, I am too) so a smaller course isn't really the issue. Particularly as the smaller the fences, the less hope of the pony jumping sensibly rather than cantering over them (and yes, he does canter over 60cm strides - I know I call him a hobbit, but he's not that hopeless!).

Ultimately, I don't think the aim of jumping 70-80cm courses reasonably sensibly is a terribly unrealistic one - even for a highland. I would see your point if I were aiming to take him round Burghley (believe me, there aren't enough performance enhancing drugs in the world... too soon to joke about that? oops...) or even aiming at jumping 90cm BS-type courses. I'm not expecting him to jump like a warmblood, just reasonably sensibly, without putting his front feet under the front rail and launching vertically into the air. Which he is now doing, as you can see in the video - so now the issue is getting the course tidy and getting me riding "properly".

Well if I am heading that way i will give you a shout (my family live that way) if you want to hire the arena and want a hand oh yes he is part elephant, well that or part cow!!! ;-) my instructor laughs that my feet barely come past my saddle flaps, no wonder I find it easy to bounce off! if your down my way (Sussex) your more than welcome to come and have a ride

I must say having people around you who do similar stuff and you all egg each other on is also definately helpful, I know that is difficult in your situation though.

Thanks! If you're ever up and fancy a play, it's open house here and pony isn't too much of a pleb, honest! Just flicking through the photos of you on that site, he looks awesome - what a cool dude

 

[Bernster]

I was wandering because there were people coming in and out of the arena and I'd have run them over on my way to the first fence I picked up canter, the transition was rubbish and the canter was meh, so I re-routed up the arena to try and get it back together. I tried to turn between two fences and realised there wasn't enough space so we came back to walk and picked up canter again and started. It may have looked aimless, but it honestly wasn't!

I think my point is that 70cm shouldn't be conquering demons - the pony is capable (and, whether I believe it or not, I am too) so a smaller course isn't really the issue. Particularly as the smaller the fences, the less hope of the pony jumping sensibly rather than cantering over them (and yes, he does canter over 60cm strides - I know I call him a hobbit, but he's not that hopeless!).

Ultimately, I don't think the aim of jumping 70-80cm courses reasonably sensibly is a terribly unrealistic one - even for a highland. I would see your point if I were aiming to take him round Burghley (believe me, there aren't enough performance enhancing drugs in the world... too soon to joke about that? oops...) or even aiming at jumping 90cm BS-type courses. I'm not expecting him to jump like a warmblood, just reasonably sensibly, without putting his front feet under the front rail and launching vertically into the air. Which he is now doing, as you can see in the video - so now the issue is getting the course tidy and getting me riding "properly".



Thanks! If you're ever up and fancy a play, it's open house here and pony isn't too much of a pleb, honest! Just flicking through the photos of you on that site, he looks awesome - what a cool dude

Between you me and Liane, I'm sure we could arrange a mini HHOer OWA convention at NHEC. And we could come up with some other acronyms along the way. LOL. I'm far better at being a cheerleader for others than I am for myself, plus we could video each other (blurk) or hand round cups of luke warm tea and soggy biscuits. Seriously, I'm up for this, already fed up of the weather so looking for indoor venues for some low level fun (that sounds a bit personal ad to me).

Off to a sj clinic this Sunday at East Herts, which will be the first time out doing a round of jumps. Lawks.

And I know what you mean about tempting fate, am expecting a call any time now about lost shoes, leg's dropped off, horse has run away etc etc etc !

 

[frannieuk]

Hi JFTD,

Just wanted to elaborate on the comment regarding a plan. I don't get the jitters about being in the ring, but I do get a bit trappy about the warm up (esp as my horse tends to get her handbag out!). What works for me is to have a warm up plan, almost like a ritual. I change it a bit if necessary (to suit the horse / the day / whatever) but the ritual starts when I go in the warmup and finishes after I've actually jumped. To be honest though, as I've got much more comfortable with the whole thing, I'm tending to not stick to it so it's served its purpose. If I do ever get a bit wobbly, I go back to it.
My suggestion therefore would be to have a ritual that takes you from the warm up, through the round and finally to leaving the arena. I'd also make it pretty detailed so you and your horse know what comes next, and I'd echo the comments regarding being purposeful as soon as you are in the arena for your round - doesn't matter if people are getting out of the way!
For info, mine was basically about how I warmed up on the flat, then jump 2 cross poles, 2 uprights, 2 parallels (one at the max warmup height allowed) and then another big upright. Then go straight down to arena. If I have to wait, that's fine - I go through the course and think specifically about what I'm going to do as soon as I get in the arena and before I wait for the bell. Then go in, and do the plan! For me I trot in purposefully, trot round until the bell goes, then come back to walk. Get a good walk, horse listening and off the leg, then walk to canter and start...Always the same, which gives me confidence and my horse as she knows what's coming. As I said though, some of the flatwork side of my warmup ritual has gone by the by as I've stopped thinking about it - still do the jumps the same way though, and my round!
Hope this isn't a bunch of waffle....!!
PS I don't think you have much to worry about - maybe just a little more purposeful and perhaps a bit more forward but otherwise it looks nice. My trainers mantra is balance-rhythm-straightness which works for me!

 

[TarrSteps]

I was wandering because there were people coming in and out of the arena and I'd have run them over on my way to the first fence I picked up canter, the transition was rubbish and the canter was meh, so I re-routed up the arena to try and get it back together. I tried to turn between two fences and realised there wasn't enough space so we came back to walk and picked up canter again and started. It may have looked aimless, but it honestly wasn't!

I think my point is that 70cm shouldn't be conquering demons - the pony is capable (and, whether I believe it or not, I am too) so a smaller course isn't really the issue. Particularly as the smaller the fences, the less hope of the pony jumping sensibly rather than cantering over them (and yes, he does canter over 60cm strides - I know I call him a hobbit, but he's not that hopeless!).

Ultimately, I don't think the aim of jumping 70-80cm courses reasonably sensibly is a terribly unrealistic one - even for a highland. I would see your point if I were aiming to take him round Burghley (believe me, there aren't enough performance enhancing drugs in the world... too soon to joke about that? oops...) or even aiming at jumping 90cm BS-type courses. I'm not expecting him to jump like a warmblood, just reasonably sensibly, without putting his front feet under the front rail and launching vertically into the air. Which he is now doing, as you can see in the video - so now the issue is getting the course tidy and getting me riding "properly".



Thanks! If you're ever up and fancy a play, it's open house here and pony isn't too much of a pleb, honest! Just flicking through the photos of you on that site, he looks awesome - what a cool dude

I actually think Bb spoke a lot of sense and waving it away doesn't make it untrue.

Okay, so you had to wait a bit and then you didn't actually have a path planned out. That's the point. You need to know what to do in those situations to make sure the horse fires when it's time. Okay, you gave him a slap (I presume because he didn't go off your leg when asked) but absolutely nothing changed.

Which brings us to the second point. Jumping a few big fences at home is not even in the ballpark of jumping a course at that level, let alone at a strange venue with travel, warm up etc. I think F is fantastic. But a couple of times in that video he is worryingly close to the back bar of the oxers. Yes, small ponies jump big jumps but it's not a question of size, it's about mechanics. He may very well jump better with more impulsion, but that means you need to create it, not just rely on him being a good guy about it. If he needs to be fitter and more practiced, then so be it. You can't ask questions without giving horses the tools to answer them easily and safely . You can decide you want to move up for your own ambitions but it's not all about you...

I'm sure you will take this as ' mean' and unsupportive but franky, being confident is about being prepared.

 

[TarrSteps]

Btw, frannieuk's prep is very standard - if everyone is doing something it's probably because it works! Pros might be a bit more specific about the actual fences they jump - oxers pulled out for one that cramps up in the air, angled vertical for one that's slow in front - but for most horses, that's a very suitable all purpose prep

 

[JFTDWS]

Between you me and Liane, I'm sure we could arrange a mini HHOer OWA convention at NHEC. And we could come up with some other acronyms along the way. LOL. I'm far better at being a cheerleader for others than I am for myself, plus we could video each other (blurk) or hand round cups of luke warm tea and soggy biscuits. Seriously, I'm up for this, already fed up of the weather so looking for indoor venues for some low level fun (that sounds a bit personal ad to me).

Off to a sj clinic this Sunday at East Herts, which will be the first time out doing a round of jumps. Lawks.

And I know what you mean about tempting fate, am expecting a call any time now about lost shoes, leg's dropped off, horse has run away etc etc etc !

This sounds brilliant! I'm totally up for it (and I lol-ed at the personal ad!) Am more than happy to video / photo for folk and hand round weak tea, soggy biscuits and a hip flask As for acronyms, I quite like Apprehensives Anonymous too - I'm a fully signed up member!

Good luck at the clinic - hope nothing drops off between now and then :eek3:

Hi JFTD,

Just wanted to elaborate on the comment regarding a plan. I don't get the jitters about being in the ring, but I do get a bit trappy about the warm up (esp as my horse tends to get her handbag out!). What works for me is to have a warm up plan, almost like a ritual. I change it a bit if necessary (to suit the horse / the day / whatever) but the ritual starts when I go in the warmup and finishes after I've actually jumped. To be honest though, as I've got much more comfortable with the whole thing, I'm tending to not stick to it so it's served its purpose. If I do ever get a bit wobbly, I go back to it.
My suggestion therefore would be to have a ritual that takes you from the warm up, through the round and finally to leaving the arena. I'd also make it pretty detailed so you and your horse know what comes next, and I'd echo the comments regarding being purposeful as soon as you are in the arena for your round - doesn't matter if people are getting out of the way!
For info, mine was basically about how I warmed up on the flat, then jump 2 cross poles, 2 uprights, 2 parallels (one at the max warmup height allowed) and then another big upright. Then go straight down to arena. If I have to wait, that's fine - I go through the course and think specifically about what I'm going to do as soon as I get in the arena and before I wait for the bell. Then go in, and do the plan! For me I trot in purposefully, trot round until the bell goes, then come back to walk. Get a good walk, horse listening and off the leg, then walk to canter and start...Always the same, which gives me confidence and my horse as she knows what's coming. As I said though, some of the flatwork side of my warmup ritual has gone by the by as I've stopped thinking about it - still do the jumps the same way though, and my round!
Hope this isn't a bunch of waffle....!!
PS I don't think you have much to worry about - maybe just a little more purposeful and perhaps a bit more forward but otherwise it looks nice. My trainers mantra is balance-rhythm-straightness which works for me!

Hi, thanks, that's not waffle at all. I like the idea of a comprehensive plan - I normally just go with the flow, but that may well not be the best way. It is certainly something I can experiment with over the next couple of months! I appreciate the insight there - makes perfect sense

Thanks - purposeful, forward and a little less eccentric from me is all I'm hoping for so completely agree we can improve on these Balance, rhythm and straightness... I like it - but I have no natural sense of rhythm :eek3:

 

[JFTDWS]

I actually think Bb spoke a lot of sense and waving it away doesn't make it untrue.

Okay, so you had to wait a bit and then you didn't actually have a path planned out. That's the point. You need to know what to do in those situations to make sure the horse fires when it's time. Okay, you gave him a slap (I presume because he didn't go off your leg when asked) but absolutely nothing changed.

Which brings us to the second point. Jumping a few big fences at home is not even in the ballpark of jumping a course at that level, let alone at a strange venue with travel, warm up etc. I think F is fantastic. But a couple of times in that video he is worryingly close to the back bar of the oxers. Yes, small ponies jump big jumps but it's not a question of size, it's about mechanics. He may very well jump better with more impulsion, but that means you need to create it, not just rely on him being a good guy about it. If he needs to be fitter and more practiced, then so be it. You can't ask questions without giving horses the tools to answer them easily and safely . You can decide you want to move up for your own ambitions but it's not all about you...

I'm sure you will take this as ' mean' and unsupportive but franky, being confident is about being prepared.

I didn't brush it away and I'm not condemning anyone as mean.

I thought we were prepared. I'm happy to defer to your superior knowledge of course.

 

[TarrSteps]

No need for that. You know your horse best and if you are confident he's ready to move up then no one who hasn't seen him/sat on him is in a position to say otherwise.

The beauty of forums is everyone has their own opinions.

But you asked about how to address worry. I would worry about a horse propping and landing that close to the back rail and I'd want to know I could fix it.

Btw, I would not agree with leanimg more forward. I ride a lot of horses who are a bit small for me and maybe not natural athletes - including a Highland very late to the working world. Staying in the middle of them and keeping lots of horse in front of me is key. The Highland, especially, gets very concerned and backward thinking if even think about getting any part of my balance out in front of her.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Btw, I would not agree with leaning more forward. I ride a lot of horses who are a bit small for me and maybe not natural athletes - including a Highland very late to the working world. Staying in the middle of them and keeping lots of horse in front of me is key. The Highland, especially, gets very concerned and backward thinking if even think about getting any part of my balance out in front of her.

Totally agree with this, it gives them far more 'lift' in their front end (which helps them no end!).

 

[frannieuk]

Btw, I would not agree with leanimg more forward. I ride a lot of horses who are a bit small for me and maybe not natural athletes - including a Highland very late to the working world. Staying in the middle of them and keeping lots of horse in front of me is key. The Highland, especially, gets very concerned and backward thinking if even think about getting any part of my balance out in front of her.

Not sure if this is related to my forward comment, but just to clarify - I mean the canter needs to be more forward and engaged, not the rider leaning forward! In my experience, leaning forward usually ends up with the horse behind one's leg, and, usually for me, jumping horribly flat.
PS - Tarrsteps, you're bang on about my warm up plan - much of it was given to me by a pro SJ-er, who always emphasises the need to have a prior plan (and a back up plan too!).

 

[Lolo]

Can you do multiple rounds in a row there? With Tango, being able to do a round again and again removed the need for it to be a 'perfect' experience for him, which I think is what you get quite hung up on (along with everyone else in the world ever!). Being able to go in and school round a few times, with the final go being where you string it all together might remove that pressure you put on yourself?

I wish my old boy was still about, he'd have been perfect for you to be able to go out and do some stuff on without worrying about anything- there's a lot to be gained from being able to enter the ring and know no matter how hard you mess up your horse will have ignored you and done it right!

 

[TarrSteps]

Not sure if this is related to my forward comment, but just to clarify - I mean the canter needs to be more forward and engaged, not the rider leaning forward! In my experience, leaning forward usually ends up with the horse behind one's leg, and, usually for me, jumping horribly flat.
PS - Tarrsteps, you're bang on about my warm up plan - much of it was given to me by a pro SJ-er, who always emphasises the need to have a prior plan (and a back up plan too!).

No, not at all. I got what you meant and I think lots of people have said the same, including me. If the canter is "dead" the horse is going to struggle in the air and land in a heap, making it even harder for the rider as then the canter has to be created fresh after each jump, instead of the horse just jumping out of the rhythm of the canter. It was to the opinion (and we all have them!) that the OP would be better served by being more forward with her shoulders, although I would probably want to create more impulsion in the air, which might move the balance point forward and then it would feel natural for the rider to follow. I think it's probably semantics though, as I don't think the person who gave the advice meant "lean forward" anyway.

I have to say riding the super unfit, very green Highland has been a reminder to "stay in the middle" I am good about that anyway, because of the sorts of horses I ride, but she has NO tolerance of me getting out in front of her balance point at all, even just posting.

 

[JFTDWS]

No need for that. You know your horse best and if you are confident he's ready to move up then no one who hasn't seen him/sat on him is in a position to say otherwise.

I'm sorry, that wasn't meant to sound aggressive. It was meant without subtext - I was walking out the door and just typed the first thing that came into my head that implied that I acknowledge your superior knowledge of this whole equitation lark. Clearly it didn't come over as intended.

My point is, I thought we were prepared, in that I thought that F was capable of jumping those sorts of heights. I think BB is implying otherwise. If you agree with BB, then that raises the worrying (for me) prospect that the basic premise of everything I'm aiming for is flawed. And clearly that is an issue.

That said, nobody mentioned "moving up" (other than at a vague, unspecified time in the future). BB mentioned moving down. I have reasons for not moving down - firstly it defeats the point for me, as 60cm rounds aren't an issue, because (and this is the second point) he doesn't need to jump them - he can canter over. I'm not dismissing BB's points, I'm just explaining why I don't think it's useful here - though of course if my premise that he's capable of this is flawed, my points are obviously invalid. Do you see where I'm going here?

The beauty of forums is everyone has their own opinions.

But you asked about how to address worry. I would worry about a horse propping and landing that close to the back rail and I'd want to know I could fix it.

At this point I assume you are seeing something more concerning than I have noticed. Clearly I need to re-watch the video and work out how worried I should be. Keeping in mind that I've spent the last 2 years working on getting him to jump better, this is obviously a massive concern for me, as if he hasn't got it now, I really have to face the risk that he will never have it and jumping, even at the low levels I had aimed for is something that is out of the question. Unless it's just terrible riding, in which case, I'm feeling that the same outcome may be applicable to me.

Btw, I would not agree with leanimg more forward. I ride a lot of horses who are a bit small for me and maybe not natural athletes - including a Highland very late to the working world. Staying in the middle of them and keeping lots of horse in front of me is key. The Highland, especially, gets very concerned and backward thinking if even think about getting any part of my balance out in front of her.

Who said leaning more forwards? Not something I aim to do certainly. F didn't even like rising trot when I backed him... I spend most of my time trying not to creep up the front end (and yes, at times I do, and it is bad, and I am a flawed human being who is trying etc...)

I know some of this may sound defensive, but I honestly appreciate your comments as I respect your opinion and I know you have a lot of experience and knowledge on which to base your comments, which I lack and cannot dismiss, even if I don't likewhat you're saying!

 

[JFTDWS]

Not sure if this is related to my forward comment, but just to clarify - I mean the canter needs to be more forward and engaged, not the rider leaning forward! In my experience, leaning forward usually ends up with the horse behind one's leg, and, usually for me, jumping horribly flat.

to be clear, I knew what you meant too...

 

[JFTDWS]

Can you do multiple rounds in a row there? With Tango, being able to do a round again and again removed the need for it to be a 'perfect' experience for him, which I think is what you get quite hung up on (along with everyone else in the world ever!). Being able to go in and school round a few times, with the final go being where you string it all together might remove that pressure you put on yourself?

I could. My logic thus far has been that if I go round numerous times, he will be increasingly tired / out of puff by the later fences and thus more likely to stick strides in or flop into a back rail. He's fit, but not for jumping course after course as there's nowhere I can do that sort of work when my field is wet, other than by going out like we are. I accept my logic could be flawed though...

I wish my old boy was still about, he'd have been perfect for you to be able to go out and do some stuff on without worrying about anything- there's a lot to be gained from being able to enter the ring and know no matter how hard you mess up your horse will have ignored you and done it right!

He sounds like an absolute gem

 

[Lolo]

He was, only reason I ever dared to start riding again really- went from too scared to canter to jumping round a 75cm XC in 3 months. Considering I was in floods of tears over trotting poles when I got him, it is a real testament to how generous and kind he was. Totally mental, and Al couldn't deal with him, but perfect nonetheless

I think going in at 60cm or so and just doing that sounds really stupid, but actually does remove a barrier in your mind. And he's more than fit enough for it at that height. It's like you need you both to go 'Oh, that's it? How dull' rather than it being a thing.

Are there any RCs round you which run clinics? Those are good for the getting out and replicating schooling thing too...

 

[Baggybreeches]

That said, nobody mentioned "moving up" (other than at a vague, unspecified time in the future). BB mentioned moving down. I have reasons for not moving down - firstly it defeats the point for me, as 60cm rounds aren't an issue, because (and this is the second point) he doesn't need to jump them - he can canter over.

Rather than walk away and roll my eyes, I will explain the flaw in your reasoning here.
I didn't/wouldn't suggest for a minute that you aren't both capable of any height you choose to jump, however, based on the video on which you asked for CC I am seeing a combination that are not jumping fluently round a fairly basic 70cm clear round. Why not be fair to your pony and get it right at a smaller height (even if it is 60cm)? It's far more forgiving to make mistakes at a smaller height and you will set yourselves up better having lots of good experiences which will enable you to be more confident when you do move up. If its right for your pony it doesn't matter whether its 12cm or 120cm, please don't be so stubborn that you dismiss advice given to help when that is what you asked for, nobody knows all the answers and the more you learn the more you realise you don't know.

 

[TarrSteps]

The 'going more forward' comment came up earlier - you explained that you had worked hard to NOT do that and I agreed. My experience of horses like F is they need the rider to remain very quietly in the middle - albeit allowing with the arms, of course - as they have a low tolerance for balance shifts. So basically I was agreeing with what you've already found, that he jumps best when you keep your shoulder open.

I think both Bb and I were trying to make the point that the fact that sometimes he gets close to the base, stalls slightly in the air, and lands quite close to the back rail of the oxer may not be 'you' but 'him'. That's the way horses like him tend to jump. He's improved massively and he's trying, but if you're nearing the limits of his physical comfort zone then you will have to optimise your approach. It's not a massive disastrous calamity, it's just being realistic and targeting your efforts. He must have more canter. He must carry his pace across the jumps. This is essential. There might be other things you want to work on but, for him, never at the expense of that. With another horse, stronger in some areas, weaker in others, you might have to prioritise differently. He's a bonny chap and tries very hard for you, so you must be doing lots right, but in THAT video he needs more pace and more purpose.

If you attend to that and he's still stalling off the ground at the oxers then yes, you might have to reassess his suitability. This is not a WORRY it's simply a reality you can think about when you get there.

Personally, I never decide what a horse will or won't do, I just keep asking incremental questions and assessing the answers. And I don't expect to be perfect. I want the horse to be operating easily enough to make up for a miss on my part. Ideally this means the horse can confidently jump a course in schooling about 10cm higher than in competition.

This is a bit of the unspoken problem with having conversations about 'confidence' and 'concern'. I really do believe the path to feeling positive is through skills, having a system you have faith in, and having people you respect to go to for advice when you step outside your comfort zone. I really don't think it's just a mind trick.

 

[JFTDWS]

Thanks for taking the time to explain your reasoning, BB. I will think about what you're saying - I haven't dismissed any advice on here.

My point about 60cm rounds isn't that they're inherently 60cm - it's that they are at a height he can step over, and therefore, if we miss a stride, he does. We've done rounds at that height and it still falls apart when we step up because the question has changed - he can no longer step over fences easily, so he has to jump. Perhaps I didn't make that clear - or perhaps you see a flaw in that logic / have a different perspective.

 

[Baggybreeches]

it's that they are at a height he can step over, and therefore, if we miss a stride, he does. We've done rounds at that height and it still falls apart when we step up because the question has changed - he can no longer step over fences easily, so he has to jump.

That's the whole point I am trying to make , there's an old saying, 'don't practise until you get it right, practise until you don't get it wrong'. The smaller fences are more forgiving FOR HIM and he is the important part of the equation you can't teach him with logic and reasoning you can only teach him with positive reinforcement (making stuff as nice as possible), do you see where I am coming from? (BTW in case you are wondering I am not in anyway fluffy about horses I believe they need a job, but it is our job to help them do their job as best as possible )

 

[JFTDWS]

That's the whole point I am trying to make , there's an old saying, 'don't practise until you get it right, practise until you don't get it wrong'. The smaller fences are more forgiving FOR HIM and he is the important part of the equation you can't teach him with logic and reasoning you can only teach him with positive reinforcement (making stuff as nice as possible), do you see where I am coming from? (BTW in case you are wondering I am not in anyway fluffy about horses I believe they need a job, but it is our job to help them do their job as best as possible )

It does make sense. But I can't see us ever not missing a stride at some point. The more I dwell on this, the more it's spiralling out of my control. I think the bottom line is always going to be that I can't ride him well or consistently enough to give him, as a less than natural jumper, a decent shot, even at the modest levels I had aimed for. As TS said, it's not a worry, it's a fact.

Thank you for explaining though.

 

[TarrSteps]

Please don't turn this into us telling you to give up!

We've suggested getting him a bit fitter, working on what you can at home and trying to get him out schooling more, and going back a step to really cement getting your gallop and seeing a forward shot. See how that goes. Your position is fine, your riding is prefectly fine for what you want to do. HE needs to be cantering better and jumping across his fences more. This is something to address as his TRAINER not just his rider.

And keep all his good qualities upfront in your mind, don't just get bogged down in the things that aren't exactly as you want in this moment in time.