OCD - help please

[Apizz2019]

Hi all,

A friend has a rising 4 year old Connie who was lightly backed last year and then turned away.

Shortly before being turned away he leapt in the air while being ridden, at walk, and landed quite hard, on all fours, on a gravel concrete surface. He was stiff the next day and a subsequent farrier visit identified a track and brewing abscess in his off side hind. A week later he blew an abscess in the near side hind. These abcesses took quite some time to resolve but all appeared well. It may be important to note that he had significant swelling in both fetlocks but had also stocked up previous to this, which was attributed to being in. The vet had been out multiple times for the abcesses but didn't think there was anything untoward going on and attributed the abcesses to bruising from the incident.

Unfortunately, the horse remained lame after the abcesses has resolved and whilst not significantly worse in movement, it was becoming challenging to pick his feet out as he seemed unable to fully weight bear on his near side hind especially.

The vet was called back this week and found inflammation in his stifles, hocks and fetlocks and suspects OCD. She was unable to complete a full lameness work up with nerve blocks due to him being so uncomfortable and unwilling to be handled around his back end.

He is going to the vet clinic next week for a full work up but it looks like, sadly, whatever it is, there may be multiple joints affected.

I wondered if anyone has experienced this and had OCD surgery in multiple joints, what was the prognosis and outcome, and what were the costs involved.

Thanks so much!

Edited to add - purchased last year unbacked and unhandled. 5 stage vetting without flexions due to being unhandled. No xrays.

 

[Parrotperson]

Well first of all I’m very sorry to hear this.

I would wait til you have your full work up to get proper answers. Many young horses recover well. Diet can play a huge part in causing this in young horses but genetics play a part as well

When he jumped and landed he will have jarred himself badly. Then the abscesses will have hidden the ocd pain.

Plus no one has had a proper look yet because horse has been difficult to handle. It could turn out to be something else.

Your vet is best placed to advise. Every horse is different.

However this is an interesting round up of OCD.

I’d be interested to hear what the verdict is once a full work up has been done.

Good luck.

 

[Apizz2019]

Well first of all I’m very sorry to hear this.

I would wait til you have your full work up to get proper answers. Many young horses recover well. Diet can play a huge part in causing this in young horses but genetics play a part as well

When he jumped and landed he will have jarred himself badly. Then the abscesses will have hidden the ocd pain.

Plus no one has had a proper look yet because horse has been difficult to handle. It could turn out to be something else.

Your vet is best placed to advise. Every horse is different.

However this is an interesting round up of OCD.

I’d be interested to hear what the verdict is once a full work up has been done.

Good luck.

Thank you.

They're quite sure it's OCD based on the physical exam, that he is inflamed in multiple joints, and because of his age. They also suspect SI issues secondary to the joint issues.

Sadly, she has been down this road before with an older horse who had OCD in his stifles which ended in him being pts.

It's such a shame as he's a lovely pony.

 

[Parrotperson]

Thank you.

They're quite sure it's OCD based on the physical exam, that he is inflamed in multiple joints, and because of his age. They also suspect SI issues secondary to the joint issues.

Sadly, she has been down this road before with an older horse who had OCD in his stifles which ended in him being pts.

It's such a shame as he's a lovely pony.

Well don’t panic just yet. Al is not lost. He’s young. Treatments an option. Wait for the vet!! X

 

[ycbm]

What an awful situation your friend is in.

Of course she needs to see what the result is next week, but if OCD in multiple joints is confirmed next week then I'm very much afraid that I would not persevere with treatment in a horse of that age who hasn't even done any work yet to cause him problems. One startled "all 4 feet of the ground" jump shouldn't have caused this, only alerted her to the fact that it was there.

I hope nobody is giving her false hopes, because OCD in one stifle is hard enough to get right, in both stifles very hard, but all six major external joints in the hind legs showing at 4 years old doesn't lead me to think there's really much of a realistic chance that the pony will ever return to much, if any, work.

I have a friend whose 10 year old had operations to both stifles which with follow up and physio took well over £10k. He did return to hacking on straight lines but I don't believe he was ever truly sound.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but she's been down this road before and what I would want now in her place is realism.
.

 

[Apizz2019]

What an awful situation your friend is in.

Of course she needs to see what the result is next week, but if OCD in multiple joints is confirmed next week then I'm very much afraid that I would not persevere with treatment in a horse of that age who hasn't even done any work yet to cause him problems. One startled "all 4 feet of the ground" jump shouldn't have caused this, only alerted her to the fact that it was there.

I hope nobody is giving her false hopes, because OCD in one stifle is hard enough to get right, in both stifles very hard, but all six major external joints in the hind legs showing at 4 years old doesn't lead me to think there's really much of a realistic chance that the pony will ever return to much, if any, work.

I have a friend whose 10 year old had operations to both stifles which with follow up and physio took well over £10k. He did return to hacking on straight lines but I don't believe he was ever truly sound.

I'm sorry to be so negative, but she's been down this road before and what I would want now in her place is realism.
.

Thank you @ycbm. Your opinions are always of great value, and always to the point. It is very much appreciated.

 

[Apizz2019]

Forgot to update this post.

Horse went to the vets for a full lameness work up, xrays and ultrasound.

The good news is just one OCD lesion was found in the near side stifle, which was deemed to be insignificant and not the cause of the lameness. The horse blocked sound to both hind fetlocks and was treated with steroids. The vet advised that the incident, where the horse had come down hard, on the hard surface, looked to have caused inflammation which wasn't going to resolve itself. They also said the horse showed some degree of SI pain but not enough to treat as it was hoped if the root cause of the lameness was addressed and fixed, the SI, with rehab and exercise, would resolve.

Fast forward 2 weeks, when the horse is now meant to be sound but he's lame.
He has been brought back into very light work - longreining in the fields and school, in hand work, a rider on board in walk etc. After being asked to trot the other evening, to take videos for the vet, he is sadly now significantly lame again, the near side hind more so, but looks to be bilateral.

He will be going back to the vets next week but my friend isn't sure what the next step will be.

Stifle, SI.... who knows.

She's not far from hitting the limit for this claim with the insurance, and is almost back to square one.

I wish I could fix this for her.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry to read that, she's really going through the wringer.

Can she turn him away for the summer, or up to a year, when the insurance runs out? Time heals a lot of things, especially when they're so young.
.

 

[Apizz2019]

I'm sorry to read that, she's really going through the wringer.

Can she turn him away for the summer, or up to a year, when the insurance runs out? Time heals a lot of things, especially when they're so young.
.

I think that may be a wise option, all things considered.

 

[ihatework]

Stop haemorrhaging money at the vets.
Turn away for a year (with supportive Bute to start with if sore) and see if whatever is going on rights itself (gut feeling from what you have said is it possibly won’t), or cut losses and pts. Sorry

 

[Apizz2019]

Stop haemorrhaging money at the vets.
Turn away for a year (with supportive Bute to start with if sore) and see if whatever is going on rights itself (gut feeling from what you have said is it possibly won’t), or cut losses and pts. Sorry

Unfortunately, he's had a bad case of colitis which resulted in a horspital stay, so she has to be very careful with pain relief, so options there are very limited too.

He can't tolerate bute, danilon, equioxx etc.

This has not been a great experience for her at all. It's been one thing after another.

 

[ihatework]

Unfortunately, he's had a bad case of colitis which resulted in a horspital stay, so she has to be very careful with pain relief, so options there are very limited too.

He can't tolerate bute, danilon, equioxx etc.

This has not been a great experience for her at all. It's been one thing after another.

That makes it tricky.
Does the colitis also affect his guts now / for lots of grass intake? That might affect the viability of long term turn out. Rubbish situation.

 

[ycbm]

Unfortunately, he's had a bad case of colitis which resulted in a horspital stay, so she has to be very careful with pain relief, so options there are very limited too.

He can't tolerate bute, danilon, equioxx etc.

This has not been a great experience for her at all. It's been one thing after another.

I would be concerned, in view of this new information, combined with what seems to have been an extreme physical reaction to something many horses do, that there is something systemic wrong with this little horse. I don't have a clue where you would start to look for it, but I'd certainly be stopping anything medical or stressful now and chucking him out in a herd if possible, preferably in a big field on a hill.

What a nightmare for the poor owner.
.

 

[Apizz2019]

That makes it tricky.
Does the colitis also affect his guts now / for lots of grass intake? That might affect the viability of long term turn out. Rubbish situation.

Due to his colitis and then his lameness, he spent a lot of time in, so limited grass. She's recently moved him and he appears to be coping well with the grass, however, there isn't a lot there and the test will be when he's moved to the summer fields.

She has to be very careful with feed, medication etc as is causes flare ups. She tried bute, danilon and equioxx when he had the abcesses and they all caused him to flare up.

 

[Apizz2019]

I would be concerned, in view of this new information, combined with what seems to have been an extreme physical reaction to something many horses do, that there is something systemic wrong with this little horse. I don't have a clue where you would start to look for it, but I'd certainly be stopping anything medical or stressful now and chucking him out in a herd if possible, preferably in a big field on a hill.

What a nightmare for the poor owner.
.

It has been a nightmare since week 2 of having him.

A happy horse arrived, to be quickly replaced by an unhappy, aggressive horse who was so poorly. It's just been one thing after another, sadly.

I do wonder if there is something systemic going on, or something underlying that may not be visible on xrays, ultrasound etc. I have suggested maybe a CT or MRI but where to start. It's just throwing more money at something without really knowing what it is or where to start.

He hasn't had a flare up of colitis for a couple of months now but she manages him very carefully.

 

[Apizz2019]

A sad, and final, update.

Horse returned to the vets, as planned, and more issues were found which I'm afraid mean it's the end of the line for the poor boy.

Utterly heartbreaking.

Thank you all for your advice.

 

[Barton Bounty]

A sad, and final, update.

Horse returned to the vets, as planned, and more issues were found which I'm afraid mean it's the end of the line for the poor boy.

Utterly heartbreaking.

Thank you all for your advice.

Im so sorry

 

[misst]

That's awful for you. I'm sorry you find yourself in this position. There's a lot of us here who've been there. At least your horse has someone who cared enough to find the problem and who will do the right thing even though it's so hard . Have a hug.x

 

[Apizz2019]

Im so sorry

Thank you.

 

[Apizz2019]

That's awful for you. I'm sorry you find yourself in this position. There's a lot of us here who've been there. At least your horse has someone who cared enough to find the problem and who will do the right thing even though it's so hard . Have a hug.x

Thank you. My friend is absolutely gutted.

 

[ycbm]

A sad, and final, update.

Horse returned to the vets, as planned, and more issues were found which I'm afraid mean it's the end of the line for the poor boy.

Utterly heartbreaking.

Thank you all for your advice.

I'm so sorry. Too many of us have been there I hope your friend is coping and has support around her.
.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

What horrendous luck. Poor horse and your poor friend. Try to do everything right and it still goes wrong.

 

[Apizz2019]

I'm so sorry. Too many of us have been there I hope your friend is coping and has support around her.
.

She's waiting to hear from the insurers to see if they will accept a loss of use claim.

He has been found to have arthritis in both stifles, an ocd chip in one stifle, and both hind suspensories have holes, scar tissue etc.

It's just rotten bad luck.

 

[Apizz2019]

What horrendous luck. Poor horse and your poor friend. Try to do everything right and it still goes wrong.

Horses are great levellers!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Such a shame with such a young and lightly worked horse. Wonder how much is congenital?

 

[Apizz2019]

Such a shame with such a young and lightly worked horse. Wonder how much is congenital?

It is a shame. At the first work up the vet noted his stifle bones were longer than expected but didn't think this was an issue. As he blocked sound to his fetlocks, that's what they treated in the hope he would then be sound in a couple of weeks.

At the second work up, as they were scanning everywhere as they couldn't block him as sound as they had previously, they decided to look at his suspensories and, sadly, they were pretty horrendous.

I think this is a congenital thing and the issues have maybe been exacerbated by the incident on the hard surface. They said the damage to his suspensories was not new or recent.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

It is a shame. At the first work up the vet noted his stifle bones were longer than expected but didn't think this was an issue. As he blocked sound to his fetlocks, that's what they treated in the hope he would then be sound in a couple of weeks.

At the second work up, as they were scanning everywhere as they couldn't block him as sound as they had previously, they decided to look at his suspensories and, sadly, they were pretty horrendous.

I think this is a congenital thing and the issues have maybe been exacerbated by the incident on the hard surface. They said the damage to his suspensories was not new or recent.

I suspected this was fairly long standing. Wonder how many of the others of the same breeding are ok or otherwise. Someone I used to know bought a mare from a local dealers yard. Soon developed navicular and was put down. She went back to the same dealer and bought an identical horse, almost cerainly same breeding and guess what, same thing happened to that. She was 3rd time lucky when she went else where for her third.

 

[ycbm]

She's waiting to hear from the insurers to see if they will accept a loss of use claim.

He has been found to have arthritis in both stifles, an ocd chip in one stifle, and both hind suspensories have holes, scar tissue etc.

It's just rotten bad luck.

And surely rotten bad breeding? Unless something else is going with what we're hearing about, there is an absolute epidemic of Connemaras being lost very young to hind leg issues this last couple of years. I also know an 11 year old with the worst soft tissue front foot MRI results I've ever seen. Every single structure involved.

Your have to pay me to take on a Connie at the moment.
.

 

[Apizz2019]

And surely rotten bad breeding? Unless something else is going with what we're hearing about, there is an absolute epidemic of Connemaras being lost very young to hind leg issues this last couple of years. I also know an 11 year old with the worst soft tissue front foot MRI results I've ever seen. Every single structure involved.

Your have to pay me to take on a Connie at the moment.
.

I agree. I too wouldn't touch a Connie.

Our farrier was saying he knew of four young Connie's, well bred, but absolutely fudged by the age of 5, all due to hind limb issues.

 

[Apizz2019]

I suspected this was fairly long standing. Wonder how many of the others of the same breeding are ok or otherwise. Someone I used to know bought a mare from a local dealers yard. Soon developed navicular and was put down. She went back to the same dealer and bought an identical horse, almost cerainly same breeding and guess what, same thing happened to that. She was 3rd time lucky when she went else where for her third.

I personally think it's down to bad breeding for the most part. These ponies are in demand and they suffer as a result of what people want. The gene pool is very slim in some breeds, especially Connie's.