OCD in warmblood piebald colt

F

fadetogrey

Active Member
Joined
25 September 2010
Messages
48
Location
Somerset
Visit site
Brought my dream coloured yearling last year who since has been diagnosed with OCD in his hock, apparently it can be a hereditery problem or a lack in vitamins for the pregnant mare .... He is so well bred and has won all classes he has entered until his hock swelled up . Since then the breeder has bred a full brother to my colt ... My boy has had the operation and is now on paddock rest and wont know if he will be ok until Dec feel sorry for the new owner of this years colt.
 
Not good news I'm afraid..... about 13 years ago I had a papered, branded Hannovarian filly, who at the age of 4 was diagnosed as having chronic DJD - Degenerative Joint Disease (I think this is the same as OCD) in both hocks - it was so bad that my vet advised me to have her PTS there and then (which I did). He said that it had to be hereditary as she was unbroken and it could not possibly be due to her workload.

He went on to explain that alot of warmbloods suffer from this condition because they are bred for big, expressive paces and horses just weren't made for this..... pretty much the same as what goes on with pedigree dog breeding really.....

This was an extreme case, and I'm not saying that this is the case with your colt.....

*fingers crossed* that your colt makes a full recovery :)
 
I had a youngster with OCD in the hock we spotted it at 3 years just as we started to back him, he was operated on and it was a huge piece removed he was then rested and then backed at 4, started jumping at 5 and is now 8 and is he is 100%
 
Yes so many factors. I know of KWPN graded stallions and Elite mares (so both had to go through strict x ray process) produce offspring that have had OCD, then other offspring of the same pairing have been fine. Fingers crossed your boy recovers well.
 
There is NO conclusive research which proves a hereditary link to OCD. In fact most of the studies suggest feeding of the foal, once weaned, is more influential in whether OCD develops. It has also been linked to the level of exercise the youngster has. It is extremely upsetting for the owner of both the mare and stallion involved when the owner of the foal makes statements to the effect that this is a hereditary issue without catagoric proof.
 
I know how upsetting it is as I have brought him with a view to use him as a stallion, the specialist and vet have both recommended I have him gelded as eventhough I understand there are many other contributing factors ( Growth and exercise being some) they cannot and wont rule out the hereditery factor 100%, I cant risk my reputation as a breeder as word of mouth is very powerful.....

Thankyou everyone and will let you know how he progresses.
 
Many thanks for your reply. Sorry to hear about your filly bet she was beautiful she sounded it, Im not sure if it is the same as OCD but I think it is pretty similar, I have everything crossed he makes a full recovery as he is gorgeous and didnt realise when I purchased him warmbloods are known for this condition..

Many thanks
 
if it is caught early enough and the surgery is done well, the prognosis should be good! Really, you'd be amazed at how many horses have this surgery done.

a word of warning, it often is bilateral (in both legs), if the vets haven't done so, I'd have the other hock looked at too......
 
They have checked the other hock and as yet touch wood no signs in the other one ..:) will get them to re-xray the other one in Dec when they check to see if the operation was a success....

Didnt realise how common it was really especially in warmbloods never heard of it before...

Many thanks will let you know the outcome..

:)
 
I do hope your horse recovers. Such a potentially serious issue at a young age must be hard for you.

Did watch a warmblood being lead in from a field today at a strange yard, & that was quite a revelation to me. Before all wb lovers attack me I can happily accept it was an extreme example & most not like it. It was like a pedigree german shepard crossed with a dashound, in that it was so built up in front, the hocks were sunk at the back & it couldn't walk properly, & the cannons were so very short compared to the upper limbs it was all knee action & no stride. It seemed to virtually walk on the spot.

Surely these horses need to be athletes before anything else in order to be able to cope with the demands of dressage training? I do own/bred a part bred wb yearling (by Catherston Dazzler), & whilst she is a different type to her tb half sister (by a Ben Faerie stallion), she is still in proportion & looks athletic. If OCD is becoming a common issue, maybe the breeding & 'type' needs to be reassessed so that congenital issues can be gradually reduced rather than accepted or increased in prevalence? As someone not into wb scene is this something assessed at stallion gradings so only clear horses are used at stud? Just wondered.
 
My filly had ocd in her hock as a yearling in Nov. She was operated on and was fine, but swelling wouldn't go so they did more x-rays,etc and then opened her up again to be 100% sure. There was some tissue that was not healthy and hadn't recovered so that was scraped and the swelling was still there. She had a course of irap treatment and now you could not even tell. The vet said that it would never have affected her performance or joint anyway,it would have only been cosmetic.
My vet also stated that when he worked in Belgium/Germany that they did many case studies to see if ocd was hereditary and they could not prove it at all.
Vets advise stallions should be gelded but he said i should definitely 100% not let it stop me breeding from my filly in the future.
 
His hock is still swollen but he has never been lame on it.
How long did the joint stay swollen second time around he only had his op about 6 weeks ago ???
I have been told that they may need to go in again for further treament if the cartlidge doesnt repair itself on its own.
Really glad your mare has made a full recovery hope the same happens with mine... Not good how different vets have different opinions on causes of OCD dont think they'll ever know for sure..

:)
 
Word of mouth is indeed very powerful. Your post in the veterinary section pinpoints the breeding of your colt. If I were the owner of the said stallion I would be extremely unhappy at the suggestion that OCD is hereditary without catagoric proof. I have first hand knowledge of your colt and am astonished to hear you intended to keep him entire - especially as he was gelded long before the OCD was diagnosed.
 
Its amazing how common this is and unless you have one with it, you don't realise. Mine has it in hocks and stifles. Home bred, I know exactly where when and what etc yet he still developed it. He isn't a knee flinger, he is correct moving, or rather, was.
Mine has cracks in the cartilage in the one stifle, this is the real bad part, the hocks and other stifle have it but have been cleaned up.
Hopefully you have caught it early, that its been treated and will go away.
 
The stud where my filly has come from has NEVER had any others that have had ocd which would suggest maybe it was something else. The vet has said she is to be fed a low protein diet and not to feed her anything really apart from maybe a balancer and that she has to grow slowly.
My filly was never lame on her hock, after about 8 weeks she has steroid and hyonate injections into the joint which got rid of the swelling but after 3 weeks or so it came back, they tried 2 of these injections to make sure. After more x-rays and scans they decided to take another look inside to be 100%. After the swelling did not go away again the vet suggested that a course of irap treatment would give it a good chance. Touch wood she has been swelling free since about 3 or 4 weeks after her last irap injection. Amazing stuff. Glad she was insured though as the bill was about £5k!! Although i do think they put more 'add ons' when they know you are insured!! I hope your chap will be ok but i really think you should research ocd a little more as my vet says vets who say it is hereditary don't know as much about it as they should.
He worked over in Germany/Holland (wherever) he said every single warmblood at 18 months (i think) gets x-rayed as a precaution as it is so common over there as there are warmbloods everywhere and they deal with it all the time, its like a normal procedure and he said its really not as much of a big deal as people in this country make it out to be!
I, personally, agree with what he says. Also as i was insured it hasn't cost me much at all. If you want to know anymore i am very willing to tell you what i know, if i know the answer and can help!
 
Your vet may say it's okay to breed from her but he doesn't have to live with the potential consequences. Personally, when I bred from my (injured, I was there when it happened) mare to try & produce my next competition horse, I assessed her worst faults (& she is by no means perfect), & the stallions worst faults, then asked if the foal came out with all of them could I still have a healthy useful animal. If you are breeding to sale (which I have also done), you have to be much more realistic about what other people may not find acceptable in terms of faults. Will you be honest when people ask why you decided to breed from the mare? It's a very dodgy area. If you say she had OCD from a young age do you think people will want to buy the foal? If the price reflects the risk, then they may have a punt but you may well loose money. Put yourself in a potential buyers position. It isn't known for sure if there is a link yet, & I would never insinuate anything about her lines as I am not in a position to pass any comment. It's a huge gamble though to breed from her. It may end up costing you a lot of money & heartbreak. Keeping everything crossed that she comes sound for you & has a long career.
 
pip6 said:
Your vet may say it's okay to breed from her but he doesn't have to live with the potential consequences. Personally, when I bred from my (injured, I was there when it happened) mare to try & produce my next competition horse, I assessed her worst faults (& she is by no means perfect), & the stallions worst faults, then asked if the foal came out with all of them could I still have a healthy useful animal. If you are breeding to sale (which I have also done), you have to be much more realistic about what other people may not find acceptable in terms of faults. Will you be honest when people ask why you decided to breed from the mare? It's a very dodgy area. If you say she had OCD from a young age do you think people will want to buy the foal? If the price reflects the risk, then they may have a punt but you may well loose money. Put yourself in a potential buyers position. It isn't known for sure if there is a link yet, & I would never insinuate anything about her lines as I am not in a position to pass any comment. It's a huge gamble though to breed from her. It may end up costing you a lot of money & heartbreak. Keeping everything crossed that she comes sound for you & has a long career.
Click to expand...

Was this aimed at me?! As if so my filly is sound and has never been lame and her having ocd will not affect her career, i have had this told to me by two top vets.
If i choose to breed from her it will be for my benefit and as the vet said many mares in germany that had had ocd had foals that were absolutely fine.
How does anyone know that when they buy a foal that the mare has never had ocd anyway? Interesting question!
 
Interesting posts! What about stallion owners who still stand stallions that had OCD as youngsters? I know of 1 TB stallion who had OCD as a youngster, he has since been presented for grading and is standing at stud. Whether the stallion owner knows the horse had OCD's as a younger animal I do not know, as they did not breed him, I assume not.
 
Exactly my point S_N!
The vet told me that only a vet that has had a lot of experience with ocd 'might' be able to tell from an x-ray that my filly has had it.
If i didn't tell anyone then you simply wouldn't know.
 
pip6 said:
Did watch a warmblood being lead in from a field today at a strange yard, & that was quite a revelation to me. Before all wb lovers attack me I can happily accept it was an extreme example & most not like it. It was like a pedigree german shepard crossed with a dashound, in that it was so built up in front, the hocks were sunk at the back & it couldn't walk properly, & the cannons were so very short compared to the upper limbs it was all knee action & no stride. It seemed to virtually walk on the spot.

Surely these horses need to be athletes before anything else in order to be able to cope with the demands of dressage training? I do own/bred a part bred wb yearling (by Catherston Dazzler), & whilst she is a different type to her tb half sister (by a Ben Faerie stallion), she is still in proportion & looks athletic. If OCD is becoming a common issue, maybe the breeding & 'type' needs to be reassessed so that congenital issues can be gradually reduced rather than accepted or increased in prevalence? As someone not into wb scene is this something assessed at stallion gradings so only clear horses are used at stud? Just wondered.
Click to expand...

Actually, whilst OCD is common in Warmbloods, it is even more common in TBs - though people don't get to know about it because OCD normally develops between 7 - 18 months and the racing industry just disposes of the wastage... Nothing at all to do with confomation or the shape of a particular breed of horse (actually warmbloods don't tend to have a lot of knee action, they have a lot of shoulder action so they cover a lot of ground & tend to have a good length in the cannon bone - are you sure it wasn't an Andalucian you saw???)

What OCD has a lot to do with, is exagerated rate of growth and people "pushing" the growth of their foals/wealing because they can't cope with the ribby/weedy shape they naturally assume at the yearling stage or in the case of racing TBs, because they have to look "well grown" for the 2 year old sales.

I have done quite a lot of research on this for personal reasons. It appears there is no proven congenital link and the truth of the matter is that scientists do not actually know exactly how OCD develops. So, except for keeping youngsters very lean and outdoors so that their joints are free to growth slowly and with as little stress as possible, no one can prevent or predict what horse will be affected. One research paper suggest a link between the levels of copper fed to broodmares in the third trimester and the ease of recovery from OCD - not the incidence of it, incidentally, but he very much is a lone voice.

There is certainly a lot of misinformed ignorance on the matter.
 
No, definatly wb. Did say may have been just a particuarly bad example.

My foals grow up outside on Simple Systems (no grain) feed & plenty of grass. They come in overnight during the winter, but live out 3/4 of the year. No issues with excessive growth (don't misunderstand this, all very good size) or any other problems. Very chilled, lovely animals to handle, know their manners & are allowed to be horses. They are going to spend enough years working, hopefully this start will set them up for long, productive, healthy lives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top