OCD of the hock - experiences please!

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I have a 17hh 5 year old who has suddenly gone noticeably lame(about 4/10ths - more so on flexion) with a very swollen hock. Had vet out and he wants to do xrays, with his main concern being OCD due to the nature of the swelling and lameness. In hindsight he has shown signs of discomfort for about a month - 'losing' that leg occasionally, being difficult to lunge (pulling away from me to avoid working (particularly on that rein), and increased frequency of bucking.

I am VERY familiar with OCD having had a filly with the condition in her stifles. I have several regrets about the way in which we dealt with her which ulitmately led me to having the horse I have now - her half brother - so there is a family history of it. The experience with my filly completely destroyed me and I'm just not sure I could go through with the hope and heartache again...

Being, realistic, if perhaps a bit pesemistic, I know I could very likely (as of wednesday) have a very tough decision to make... to operate or not to operate (and PTS instead - sorry if my bluntness offends - this is not a decision I take lightly but as I said, I have previous experience with this condition in other joints and know what it entails). It is worth noting that he is not insured for this condition or this hock as it was previously investigated 3 years ago... Money isn't an issue in that I do have the money to pay for the surgery if it is deemed the best thing for us... but then I have to be realistic and say that that moneey might be wasted as he could still be lame post surgery. I also have to bare in mind that he is not the best patient when it comes to box rest - which will undoubtedly be neccessary if we opt for surgery and after just a week will be climbing the walls...

He is a lovely horse, I love him to bits, but he is far from easy and he has had so many problems to date and is a suspected shiverer... I really just don't know whether I should cut my losses or give him a chance...

Any experiences of treating OCD of the hock would be gratefully recieved. I know all about stifles but the hock is a totally different kettle of fish IMO and I know that there are quite a few not-so-successful stories regarding Arthroscopy of this joint....
 
I have no experience so not much use really but sounds like a difficult decision. I think its often helpful to follow your gut instinct as its often the fairest for the horse. Fingers crossed for you.
 
I reiterate that I'm not a vet but from personal experience and reading about this condition I believe that hock OCD has a more favourable outcome than stifle OCD and I believe that shoulder OCD is more of a worse prognosis still.

I believe that hock OCD can be treated with quite a good prognosis depending upon the degree of damage present and the age/temperment of the horse as a lot of this prognosis is based on the recovery for the animal concerned. I understand that a good majority of horses recover well and can go on to have good ridden and competition lives although this may not be at the level they competed at before.

Read up on it on the internet to give yourself a better understanding, compile a list of question you would like to know answers to and consult a vet who specialises in this area - there are some vet hospitals that you can refer your horse to yourself without requiring a vet if money is an obstacle although if treatment is necessary I think it would be quite expensive.
 
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If this is of any comfort, I am gradually x-raying all my CB hocks, and so far nothing untoward.

I am buying another pure-bred and have asked for hock x-rays in addition to 5 stage vetting.

CB's have a reputation for poor hocks but so far all mine are good and I have five pure-breds. Another urban myth?

Has your horse had a knock or kick? I think you have a young horse and so would have expected OCD to have been indicated by now. If you go ahead please pm me I would like to know.

imo all CB stallions who are licensed should have hock x-rays then we could dispel the myth or identify those we should not breed from if the myth proves to be founded on fact.
 
nothing constructive to add, but really sorry to hear about this, especially if it is the second horse that its happened to :(

What about another opinion?

There is a guy in Halifax called Peter Scholefield that is apparently brilliant. Could perhaps get another opinion from him?
 
Hi All! Thank you for the feedback. Thankfully the xrays were clear! and the swelling has gone down to the extent where vet is happy for me to bring him back into work... TYPICAL!! but it has put my mind at rest at least.

He must've sustained an injury being an idiot in the field... I can't think of any other explaination. Though this hock as always been one to be a bit puffy for no aparent reason...

Rollin, He is just rising 5 so still young enough to have developed the condition since his last xrays at 18 months....I think you are totally right re Xraying Stallions... and mares too really. I think they should xray the stifles too - We were suspicious of my boys until earlier this year when they were cleared on Xrays but I understand on talking to a few CB people that there are one or two Stallions who are continually bred from, in the knowledge that this and other conditions are passed on to the next generation... Burrying ones head in the sand and breeding from cr*p stock is not going to help the future of the breed IMO!! I think we as a breed could learn a lot from the Shire horse society and the ID's too...

Incidently someone I met recently said that the CB is known for having quite a lazy hind end action which I can certainly identify with (though have improved greatly with schooling so I'm not too sure if it is just the CBs in question seeing what they can get away with!) but it is quite unfortunate for a horse intended for carriage driving, never mind all the other activities the modern CB is aimed at!!... Food for thought really...
 
CBFan said:
Hi All! Thank you for the feedback. Thankfully the xrays were clear! and the swelling has gone down to the extent where vet is happy for me to bring him back into work... TYPICAL!! but it has put my mind at rest at least.

He must've sustained an injury being an idiot in the field... I can't think of any other explaination. Though this hock as always been one to be a bit puffy for no aparent reason...

Rollin, He is just rising 5 so still young enough to have developed the condition since his last xrays at 18 months....I think you are totally right re Xraying Stallions... and mares too really. I think they should xray the stifles too - We were suspicious of my boys until earlier this year when they were cleared on Xrays but I understand on talking to a few CB people that there are one or two Stallions who are continually bred from, in the knowledge that this and other conditions are passed on to the next generation... Burrying ones head in the sand and breeding from cr*p stock is not going to help the future of the breed IMO!! I think we as a breed could learn a lot from the Shire horse society and the ID's too...

Incidently someone I met recently said that the CB is known for having quite a lazy hind end action which I can certainly identify with (though have improved greatly with schooling so I'm not too sure if it is just the CBs in question seeing what they can get away with!) but it is quite unfortunate for a horse intended for carriage driving, never mind all the other activities the modern CB is aimed at!!... Food for thought really...
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Right! Lots of food for thought but I at least will be breeding from horses who have had thorough investigations. It is the only way to preserve the breed.

I am thrilled that it is just a knock and nothing more serious - that is horses for you!!

I am not sure about 'lazy behind'. I use a western trainer to help with my young horses here in France. Leg Yield is the basis of western training, essential for cuttin' and ropin' and of course this makes horses use their hocks. He teaches this 'in hand' with a schooling whip amazing to watch.

I know that Highland Ponies ( I have one of those too) are heavy on the fore hand, yet one of the instructors at Gleneagles had HP doing dressage to a very high standard.

I think young horses need to be trained to use their hindquarters.

Massive hugs that it is all alright.
 
Rollin said:
Right! Lots of food for thought but I at least will be breeding from horses who have had thorough investigations. It is the only way to preserve the breed.

I am thrilled that it is just a knock and nothing more serious - that is horses for you!!

I am not sure about 'lazy behind'. I use a western trainer to help with my young horses here in France. Leg Yield is the basis of western training, essential for cuttin' and ropin' and of course this makes horses use their hocks. He teaches this 'in hand' with a schooling whip amazing to watch.

I know that Highland Ponies ( I have one of those too) are heavy on the fore hand, yet one of the instructors at Gleneagles had HP doing dressage to a very high standard.

I think young horses need to be trained to use their hindquarters.

Massive hugs that it is all alright.
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Thanks! It is very reassuring to hear of someone breeding responsibly... I know there are a few but to the untrained eye they can be quite hard to distinguish!

As I said, I have invested a LOT of time and ENERGY(!!) in getting my boy more forward and using himself better (I may have created a monster in the process though as he has discovered his 'top gear'! lol!), but it took an increadible amount of work as he was so insistent that his snails pace was perfectly adequate! so again it is quite reassuing to hear of someone else working along similar lines...
 
As OP's reply re: lazy with hocks, I would have thought that most carriage horses are lazy with their hock action anyway, as they are surely more on the forehand and therefore would trail their hocks. Am I right/wrong anyone?
 
I am so glad everything has worked out ok for you regarding the OCD results!

We sadly had to say goodbye to our lovely horse on Thursday after him being diagnosed with OCD in 6 joints and DJD in all 4 legs at only 5 years old. Heartbreaking!

So glad it's not OCD for yours!

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Racerhorses said:
I am so glad everything has worked out ok for you regarding the OCD results!

We sadly had to say goodbye to our lovely horse on Thursday after him being diagnosed with OCD in 6 joints and DJD in all 4 legs at only 5 years old. Heartbreaking!

So glad it's not OCD for yours!

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feel your pain asi had to say goodbye to my yearling who had ocd as surgery failed to help her and the pain was just to much and she had np quality of life
 
Racerhorses said:
I am so glad everything has worked out ok for you regarding the OCD results!

We sadly had to say goodbye to our lovely horse on Thursday after him being diagnosed with OCD in 6 joints and DJD in all 4 legs at only 5 years old. Heartbreaking!

So glad it's not OCD for yours!

X
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I am so sorry for your loss. I know exactly how heartbreaking it is. My Boy's half sister was diagnosed with it in her Stifles at 9 months of age... by 16 months of age - after putting her through surgery, my vets told me she was never going to be able to do anything more than light hacking...we went through a year of hell together before I made the decision to take the breeder up on her offer of a swap on the assurance that she has a home for life... to this day I wish I had had her PTS but we live and learn.

big hugs xxx
 
applecart14 said:
As OP's reply re: lazy with hocks, I would have thought that most carriage horses are lazy with their hock action anyway, as they are surely more on the forehand and therefore would trail their hocks. Am I right/wrong anyone?
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Hi Applecart,

I have only just seen your post. ???? Horse who are lazy with their hocks cannot do dressage or jump? Yet our Edwardian forefathers knew that Cleveland Bays could jump big obstacles out of heavy sticky ground with 15 stone on their backs.

Lots of evidence of CB's pure and part bred who do passable dressage. There is hardly an EU warmblood studbook without pure bred CB's, inc, SF, KWPN, Holstein, Oldenburg and to a lesser extend Hannoverian.

Unless you were a rich man in pursuit of the 'sport of kings' surely all the horses in your stable yard would have been for ride and drive?

I conclude there is a hardly a sport horse in Europe which does not owe its origins to pulling a cart or a plough.
 
My CBxTB was diagnosed with OCD in the upper hock when he was 7. We tried everything, but nothing has made him sound.

IRAP worked for about 6 weeks and then he was lame again. He was retired shortly after.

He is not registered with CB so cannot tell you his breeding, but he never had problems with his hocks as a youngster and in fact had a very good hock action. He found collected work very easy. I had him from the age of 4, and he was fed a joint supplement from day 1, I didnt bash him about or work him in deep surfaces etc he was very low mileage.

He started becoming slightly short in his near side hind - you couldnt really see it unles you looked for it. Nothing showed up in xrays or scintigraphy and the vets tested him for about 18 months. Finally he went up to see Sue Dyson (now properly lame) and again nothing showed in the xrays etc. She diagnosed him by mri in the end.

He became difficult on the lunge etc after that as well.

Good luck with your boy.
 
CBFan said:
I am so sorry for your loss. I know exactly how heartbreaking it is. My Boy's half sister was diagnosed with it in her Stifles at 9 months of age... by 16 months of age - after putting her through surgery, my vets told me she was never going to be able to do anything more than light hacking...we went through a year of hell together before I made the decision to take the breeder up on her offer of a swap on the assurance that she has a home for life... to this day I wish I had had her PTS but we live and learn.

big hugs xxx
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Thank you, they told us he needed 3 separate operations for the OCD alone, nothing prolongs or treats degenerative joint disease. The prognosis of him coming sound enough for light hacking was so poor, that's if he survived the surgery :( We just couldn't put him through all that surgery and pain for such a poor outcome! :( even if he hadn't have had the OCD to contend with he would have still had the DJD. Sadly we also didn't have a spare £12,000 spare either. Absolutely heartbroken as he was priceless to me even with the OCD and DJD, but he was in so much pain and that hurt so much to see him that way too. Its so painful watching them in the pain they are in. Why is life so cruel?! 2nd one we've lost in 4 and a half months :( xx
 
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