OCD - what else can i do?

[BDyasmine]

Hello,
My mare was diagnosed with bilateral stifle OCD in January. She is nine years old, so it is likely she has had this before i got her but has only become an issue this year since she has been doing more advanced work. She was not severely lame, got a 1/10 on lameness scale at rossdales.
She had the joints treated with steroid injections in January, but only came sound for 2 days, and then back to how she was. I was then persuaded to send her for a bilateral arthroscopy, followed by 5 weeks box rest. However, she is still exactly the same as she was before, if not worse.
I was wondering if anyone has had any similar experiences, and what the final outcome was.
I dont really want to put her through any more stress. I knew as soon as i got the diagnosis that she was never going to get back to the level she was at (adv medium), but i hoped that she would be sound enough to be a happy hacker.
I am thinking of turning her away for the summer to let her chill out as the whole ordeal has upset her a lot, and then see how she is in the autumn.
Obviously the vet has given me short term instructions on what to do with her, but im thinking what in the long term will be best for her, and if anyone has had a horse come sound after a similar situation.
Thanks
x

 

[applecart14]

Sorry I have no idea but just wanted to say how sorry I was to hear of your mare.

I wondered if Tildren could be used so had a search of this forum and found this http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?247796-Tildren-OCD-Stifle-Joints
Maybe it might be worth PM'ing Beepastar and finding out what the outcome was?

 

[BDyasmine]

Thank you, thats really helpful! I'll give them a message.

 

[Paint it Lucky]

Is it the sort of thing that can be removed? My gelding had an OCD lesion in one of his hind fetlocks, like your mare he'd had it a while but it didn't really affect him until I started asking him to do more advanced dressage work and really sit behind, he struggled when I knew he shouldn't so after much investigation we found the lesion. Like you I initially opted for joint injections, this worked for a while but then wore off. So I opted for surgery. It was the best decision I could have made. My gelding came back a different horse, obviously he needed a bit of time to recover although as it's done by keyhole surgery it's not actually that long. Once he was back in work he went better than ever and he was so much happier, suddenly he could engage his hindquarters without it hurting him and it was wonderful.

He now very sadly has another condition (ringbone) which cant be so easily treated and so is retired but I've never regretted putting him through the surgery. He is a fairly calm horse so going to the hospital etc didn't really phase him. Obviously there are risks involved but I think it's worth it as you get a much happier horse as the outcome. my boy wasn't even insured, I paid for all the treatment but again I don't regret this, he's given me a lot over the years so I owed it to him.

Anyway I would speak to your vet to see if this is an option. Injections only really mask the problem, the OCD will still be there, I know stifles can be a harder place to operate on than fetlocks though I do know a horse who managed to fracture his stifle and had a chip break of it which was successfully removed by surgery and he fully recovered. I know you say you don't want to put her through stress but I honestly think it's worth it. My gelding only had to stay at the hospital a few days and then once home he only needed two weeks box rest (was aloud out for grass walks in hand), then was aloud out in a small paddock pretty quickly. Your mare's a good age, it's worth a try. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[BDyasmine]

Is it the sort of thing that can be removed? My gelding had an OCD lesion in one of his hind fetlocks, like your mare he'd had it a while but it didn't really affect him until I started asking him to do more advanced dressage work and really sit behind, he struggled when I knew he shouldn't so after much investigation we found the lesion. Like you I initially opted for joint injections, this worked for a while but then wore off. So I opted for surgery. It was the best decision I could have made. My gelding came back a different horse, obviously he needed a bit of time to recover although as it's done by keyhole surgery it's not actually that long. Once he was back in work he went better than ever and he was so much happier, suddenly he could engage his hindquarters without it hurting him and it was wonderful.

He now very sadly has another condition (ringbone) which cant be so easily treated and so is retired but I've never regretted putting him through the surgery. He is a fairly calm horse so going to the hospital etc didn't really phase him. Obviously there are risks involved but I think it's worth it as you get a much happier horse as the outcome. my boy wasn't even insured, I paid for all the treatment but again I don't regret this, he's given me a lot over the years so I owed it to him.

Anyway I would speak to your vet to see if this is an option. Injections only really mask the problem, the OCD will still be there, I know stifles can be a harder place to operate on than fetlocks though I do know a horse who managed to fracture his stifle and had a chip break of it which was successfully removed by surgery and he fully recovered. I know you say you don't want to put her through stress but I honestly think it's worth it. My gelding only had to stay at the hospital a few days and then once home he only needed two weeks box rest (was aloud out for grass walks in hand), then was aloud out in a small paddock pretty quickly. Your mare's a good age, it's worth a try. Good luck whatever you decide.

thanks for your reply unfortunatly she has already had the op - had bilateral arthroscopy in feb but no joy vet came after her box rest and she was lame when trotted up, so vet said just to turn her out, and now when i see her trot in the field she is still lame

 

[applecart14]

Thank you, thats really helpful! I'll give them a message.

Please keep us updated - I would be interested to know the answer to this also. I hope not, but I didn't realise until now how long ago it was that Beepastar posted about this subject, she may have left the forum by now. Maybe someone who knows her/him can suppy you with an answer.

 

[Paint it Lucky]

Sorry to hear the op didn't work for her Maybe she will be better after a summer off? It's still early days. I hope she recovers.

 

[FlyingCoo]

Have been there, done it & bought the T shirt on OCD in Stifles. Please feel free to PM if wish as there are all various different things possible etc.

 

[BDyasmine]

Have been there, done it & bought the T shirt on OCD in Stifles. Please feel free to PM if wish as there are all various different things possible etc.

have messaged, thanks

 

[paulineh]

Have you thought of trying Acupuncture I have heard that people are getting good results

 

[CBFan]

Hi. I had a filly who had this surgery and I have a gelding who had a bone chip removed from a ligament near his fetlock last year. In my experience 3 months is nothing in terms of recovery. I would strongly advise turning her away for the summer and leaving her to it before doing anything else. My lad had his surgery last April and didn't come back into proper work until Christmas - that was after weeks of in hand walking, building up very slowly. Maybe scrap any plans (and by plans I mean riding of any sort) you have for her this year and have a look at her in the autumn with a view to starting some light hacking over the winter, increasing as the spring approaches?

My filly (yearling) was one of the worst cases my vets had ever seen, and they told me she would never be more than a light hack. She did go on to manage hacking, and even hunting very well until one of her other problems caught up with her.... but her recovery from the OCD op did take much longer than the 'experts' said, so I guess, patience is key.

 

[BDyasmine]

Have you thought of trying Acupuncture I have heard that people are getting good results

thats interesting, I will look into it!!

 

[BDyasmine]

Hi. I had a filly who had this surgery and I have a gelding who had a bone chip removed from a ligament near his fetlock last year. In my experience 3 months is nothing in terms of recovery. I would strongly advise turning her away for the summer and leaving her to it before doing anything else. My lad had his surgery last April and didn't come back into proper work until Christmas - that was after weeks of in hand walking, building up very slowly. Maybe scrap any plans (and by plans I mean riding of any sort) you have for her this year and have a look at her in the autumn with a view to starting some light hacking over the winter, increasing as the spring approaches?

My filly (yearling) was one of the worst cases my vets had ever seen, and they told me she would never be more than a light hack. She did go on to manage hacking, and even hunting very well until one of her other problems caught up with her.... but her recovery from the OCD op did take much longer than the 'experts' said, so I guess, patience is key.

Thank you Yes i think turning her away is the best option. its just both the vet at newmarket and my own vet are not optimistic at all about her being ridden again
also, she has become incredibly aggressive the last couple of weeks, and she has always been so sweet before. I'm not sure if it is pain or because she is bored. Have you had this experience with yours? This is my 4th summer with her and she has never been like this in season before so im pretty confident its not that.

 

[CBFan]

My vet (RVC practice vet) and the surgeon (RVC again) weren't optimistic at all either- after 13 weeks box rest she still didn't seem much sounder but in the end I bit the bullet and turned her out and let her get on with it. In a small pen to begin with but eventually in a normal field. The same with my big lad. I knew he was going to become a problem on full box rest so after discussions with the vet we opted for box rest with turnout in a small pen while he was being mucked out, and after 4 weeks we gradually increased the time out and then the size of the area, until he was out 24/7 with just one other for company. The grumpiness your mare is exhibiting could be as much about the social isolation as it is about the pain. I would try and get her out with one sensible other as soon as you can. My boy wasn't very happy, though was fairly accepting of box rest but greatly improved with turnout. It might well be worth you not really considering getting back on her or ding anything with her until early next spring so she has a nice long time to heal...

Has your vet recommended your mare go on any supplements? Mine put my lad on glucosamine and my filly had her stifles medicated with Hyaluronic Acid... options? Also look at herbal options?

 

[BDyasmine]

My vet (RVC practice vet) and the surgeon (RVC again) weren't optimistic at all either- after 13 weeks box rest she still didn't seem much sounder but in the end I bit the bullet and turned her out and let her get on with it. In a small pen to begin with but eventually in a normal field. The same with my big lad. I knew he was going to become a problem on full box rest so after discussions with the vet we opted for box rest with turnout in a small pen while he was being mucked out, and after 4 weeks we gradually increased the time out and then the size of the area, until he was out 24/7 with just one other for company. The grumpiness your mare is exhibiting could be as much about the social isolation as it is about the pain. I would try and get her out with one sensible other as soon as you can. My boy wasn't very happy, though was fairly accepting of box rest but greatly improved with turnout. It might well be worth you not really considering getting back on her or ding anything with her until early next spring so she has a nice long time to heal...

Has your vet recommended your mare go on any supplements? Mine put my lad on glucosamine and my filly had her stifles medicated with Hyaluronic Acid... options? Also look at herbal options?

yes she goes out with my other horse and they are normally best of friends! as vet said just to turn her out as normal as doing more damage to herself in a small paddock. but now she attacks my other horse, and when people need to bring their horses through the field she runs and attacks them as well.
no, the vet hasnt recommended anything :/ perhaps i will try some. only issue is she is very fussy eater, wouldnt even eat her food with bute or anti biotics in it, and all supplements i have tried before she wont eat doesnt help herself bless her!

 

[CBFan]

hmmmm... how odd. It might be that she is in a bit of pain and so feels the need to protect herself a little more than normal...

If she is fussy, try just adding it to her feed very gradually start with a pinch of it and increase over a couple of weeks. Is there anything natural that she choses to eat? Nettle? Hawthorn? Clivers? Thistle? All are quite good for detoxing and might help? Bless her she doesn't sound too happy at the mo - I hope you get to the bottom of it ...

 

[Lgd]

The other thing I would highly recommend is to get her seen by an equine body worker of some sort before you turn her away. If she has had a general anaesthetic she will have been hoisted and also had to get up from it.
Having had two put through a GA the one consistent thing was their bodies were a mess afterwards. It won't fix the stifle problem but might get her moving better overall and more comfortable.

 

[CBFan]

The other thing I would highly recommend is to get her seen by an equine body worker of some sort before you turn her away. If she has had a general anaesthetic she will have been hoisted and also had to get up from it.
Having had two put through a GA the one consistent thing was their bodies were a mess afterwards. It won't fix the stifle problem but might get her moving better overall and more comfortable.

Good thinking... I had similar thoughts but wondered if it was a bit soon after surgery - though any decent bodyworker should be aware of this and the limitations on what the horse should do in terms of manipulations.

 

[Lgd]

My lady does equine sports massage and is McTimoney chiro, both of mine had a full body massage and the only part she did any chiro work on was the poll/head area

 

[BDyasmine]

The other thing I would highly recommend is to get her seen by an equine body worker of some sort before you turn her away. If she has had a general anaesthetic she will have been hoisted and also had to get up from it.
Having had two put through a GA the one consistent thing was their bodies were a mess afterwards. It won't fix the stifle problem but might get her moving better overall and more comfortable.

very good point, i will arrange for her to be seen soon if physio thinks a good idea

 

[gunnergundog]

The other thing I would highly recommend is to get her seen by an equine body worker of some sort before you turn her away. If she has had a general anaesthetic she will have been hoisted and also had to get up from it.
Having had two put through a GA the one consistent thing was their bodies were a mess afterwards. It won't fix the stifle problem but might get her moving better overall and more comfortable.

Any neuropathy or myopathy would be evident to the vet before discharge after GA; they would deal with/recommend any follow-up action....assuming they are any good that is.

 

[CBFan]

Any neuropathy or myopathy would be evident to the vet before discharge after GA; they would deal with/recommend any follow-up action....assuming they are any good that is.

It's not just the immediate recovery period, it's the period of box rest too... if they are in pain they will compensate elsewhere and if they are stressed they will also be tense. A visit by a well respected physio will do no harm...