Off lead dogs

[PucciNPoni]

There's a woman I work with who has a rescue dog - he's a lovely lad but he is reactive. She's not exactly the best handler but she has worked hard and has had behaviour sessions with him and he is well exercised. She is however TERRIFIED to walk him where there are lots of off lead dogs because while he is fine like 80% of the time, there's another 20% where he reacts. And she avoids parks where there are lots of kids, and avoids busy areas and her life is spent trying to fix this problem and then avoiding anything that might make him react. Dog ownership is a big responsibility and she is taking hers seriously but sometimes due to other people who CBA with their own responsibility it ruins it for her.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I don't think I've ever seen such a disheartening thread on here. People with aggressive or unfriendly dogs (so we must assume therefore inadequately or not entirely trained to be sociable) blaming owners of other inadequately trained friendly animals because they haven't adequately taught their dog to be unsociable.

both of my dogs are very well socialised although I can only take the credit for one of those. He's somewhat elderly and I do not want him bowled over or jumped on by the completely out of control setter x pointer we met the other week, or the local dog walker's thug of a lab either and I am very rural. The bitch is quite capable of looking after herself.

 

[galaxy]

I don't think I've ever seen such a disheartening thread on here. People with aggressive or unfriendly dogs (so we must assume therefore inadequately or not entirely trained to be sociable) blaming owners of other inadequately trained friendly animals because they haven't adequately taught their dog to be unsociable.
Surely the aim with an anti-social dog is to train it to mix with other dogs as quickly as possible. So that you don't have to go through the stress you currently inflict on yourself and your dog on every walk. If the local park isn't the place to do this, for whatever reason, find somewhere that is. There are loads of behaviour classes etc around. Sadly, you can't expect to change the behaviour of everyone else's dog, but you are certainly responsible for your own.
As for the person who advised 'get more assertive, start shouting and stamping'. What sort of message does that send to the poor dog (already feeling vulnerable having had all its natural behavioural reflexes restricted by a leash and muzzle)? It send the message that there's something to be afraid of and that aggression is the required response. Madness.

Err.... My dogs are very well socialised and friendly, my boy was actually off lead and having a lovely time with me when the leonburger gate crashed. The leonburgers behaviour was exceptionally rude, why should I expect my boy to just be ok with that? He probably felt he was going to be flattened!!

Having a leonburger run over isn't very "scary" actually, their action is kind of comical! Lol! The fact the owner had no control and it terrified me dog was the bit that annoyed the heck out of me.

 

[{97702}]

Interesting thread - my OH was walking my 4 greyhounds today (on lead) and 2 dogs ran up to him and began behaving aggressively towards my dogs, my big greyhound doesn't like any other dogs particularly small ones so splatted the small dogs. Another of my four joined in. Is this my dogs fault or the other dogs fault?

 

[fredders]

I don't think I've ever seen such a disheartening thread on here. People with aggressive or unfriendly dogs (so we must assume therefore inadequately or not entirely trained to be sociable) blaming owners of other inadequately trained friendly animals because they haven't adequately taught their dog to be unsociable.
Surely the aim with an anti-social dog is to train it to mix with other dogs as quickly as possible. So that you don't have to go through the stress you currently inflict on yourself and your dog on every walk. If the local park isn't the place to do this, for whatever reason, find somewhere that is. There are loads of behaviour classes etc around. Sadly, you can't expect to change the behaviour of everyone else's dog, but you are certainly responsible for your own.
As for the person who advised 'get more assertive, start shouting and stamping'. What sort of message does that send to the poor dog (already feeling vulnerable having had all its natural behavioural reflexes restricted by a leash and muzzle)? It send the message that there's something to be afraid of and that aggression is the required response. Madness.

I know my dogs behaviour is far from ideal. I am in the process of trying to train him to ignore other dogs coming up to him and focus on me. He is getting better. He will walk well with quiet calm dogs but still gets upset if bouncy uncontrolled dogs run up to him. My friend who is a dog trainer helps me and she said is possible he will always react to strange dogs running up to him. I started put a muzzle on him because of people letting their dogs just run up to him. I know he would maybe less reactive not on the lead but I am not prepared to put him in a position where he could have a serious fight

 

[Nightingale]

Yes, I agree, no one should have to 'put up' with a badly trained dog with no recall but it's a sad fact of life that if you frequent popular dog walking areas, that's what you're gonna find. It's like other people's awfully behaved kids or drivers who don't indicate - they're always gonna be there – and they don’t care - you can't change that. The best you can do is train your own dog to the best of your ability to cope with what stupid owners throw at him. And I am not talking about aggressive vicious dogs on the attack – that’s different, just those hyperactive friendly ones that make a right nuisance of themselves.
And I know all about those because I had one. A rescue who had many behavioural issues and wasn’t socialised when I got him but was energetic and active enough to need miles of off-lead walks. We avoided the regular dog walking haunts for years but for different reasons from those PuccinPoni mentions – because we were that ‘in your face’ annoying hound everyone is moaning about and I didn’t want to inconvenience anyone.
And as our training progressed (it took so long and was such hard work) and we started to frequent more public areas, sometimes the recall was great and sometimes it failed me. But what kept me going was the lovely fellow dog walkers who offered encouragement and help and swapped tips. Thankfully I didn’t meet too many of those who advocated shouting and stamping and growling and throwing things at my dog or reciting the letter of the law to me (there were a few,wand yes, they hurt).
So after all the hard work that PuccinPoni talks about, I now have a lovely well-behaved boy who is friendly, sociable and kind to all other dogs he meets. At last, he always comes back when he is called and now that he is old and grumpy if we meet an exuberant youngster or ‘in your face, out of control type’ he tolerates it until he’s had enough and then sends it away with a clear but harmless message that other dogs seem to understand.
It just saddens me that, in general, the theme seems to be that it’s everyone else’s fault. It’s always the other dog or their owner to blame. Everyone seems so quick to judge and criticise. There was someone on here who said ‘my dog’s not a training aid’. Well my dog is. And I am so proud that after all his problems he is now able to interact sensibly and calmly with dogs of varying temperaments and I shamelessly ‘use’ his good manners to help other owners we meet who are struggling in the same way that I did.
Of course there are people who don’t take responsibility for the behaviour of their own dogs, but the fact is you will never change them – you can shout and stamp and throw food all you like, it won’t make any difference. All you can do is avoid them (tricky) or try to remain calm and do your best to make sure your dog knows how to cope with them.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I don't think I've ever seen such a disheartening thread on here. People with aggressive or unfriendly dogs (so we must assume therefore inadequately or not entirely trained to be sociable) blaming owners of other inadequately trained friendly animals because they haven't adequately taught their dog to be unsociable.
Surely the aim with an anti-social dog is to train it to mix with other dogs as quickly as possible. So that you don't have to go through the stress you currently inflict on yourself and your dog on every walk. If the local park isn't the place to do this, for whatever reason, find somewhere that is. There are loads of behaviour classes etc around. Sadly, you can't expect to change the behaviour of everyone else's dog, but you are certainly responsible for your own.

My very DA dog is very friendly-once he's tried to kill anything that bounces in his face. He has been to puppy class, then was fine til he was attacked, then had hour upon hour of training with other dogs, one to one, everything. Mine is extremely well trained, it's all I do with him on walks.

Other owners being unable to recall their dog is a huge problem and I do not expect other dogs to have to be antisocial, I just want them to stay away from mine. I have the right to be left in peace on walks and yes, it is the owner's fault for not teaching their dog to have manners/a decent recall. It's ridiculously common to have out of control dogs running up to us. I had to put Zak on the lead today when two beagles came pelting over, owners miles away. He would have stayed in a sit, but I don't want to risk an incident if they came too close. My walks are frequently interrupted by rude dogs and yes, clueless owners who have never done a minute's training with their 'oh, he's just friendly' dog.

My dogs aren't anti social, but they don't take too kindly to an un controlled off lead dog running at their faces. THAT behaviour is antisocial in itself.

It's bad enough that I have to seek quiet fields to run my dogs, and I do so. But I still have to get TO them. I have an elderly dog - do I need to take him to training classes? No - we've been there and done that. I've discovered it's not HIM that's the problem it's in fact other people's mismanagement of THEIR dogs that is.

Exactly. I have zero problems with Zak being surrounded by other dogs, he is not the problem, they are when they come running over and haven't learnt manners or been taught them. None of my three run up to other dogs. They socialise with each other and aren't interested in other dogs.

There's a woman I work with who has a rescue dog - he's a lovely lad but he is reactive. She's not exactly the best handler but she has worked hard and has had behaviour sessions with him and he is well exercised. She is however TERRIFIED to walk him where there are lots of off lead dogs because while he is fine like 80% of the time, there's another 20% where he reacts. And she avoids parks where there are lots of kids, and avoids busy areas and her life is spent trying to fix this problem and then avoiding anything that might make him react. Dog ownership is a big responsibility and she is taking hers seriously but sometimes due to other people who CBA with their own responsibility it ruins it for her.

I sympathise hugely. Other owners who CBA to train their dogs are my biggest trauma. Very stressful, the last few days, having to walk my lot on my own, particularly as I physically can't run away.

 

[SusieT]

I dont meet all these horrible other owners some people seem to attract... at our park off lead dogs walk past each other, on lead dogs -other dogs are put on leads or called to close control... rarely is there an out of ocntrol one and tolerance is practised..
And aggressive dogs, under control or not walk with muzzles for safety!

 

[AmyMay]

I dont meet all these horrible other owners some people seem to attract... at our park off lead dogs walk past each other, on lead dogs -other dogs are put on leads or called to close control... rarely is there an out of ocntrol one and tolerance is practised..

Ditto. Maybe it's where I live, but thankfully if we do meet other dogs there's never any issues. They either ignore each other or just have a whale of a time.

 

[Nightingale]

Thank god! Same here. Most people in our park are so supportive and all the dogs mingle happily off lead. Of course, there is the occasional spat, but the dogs sort it out amongst themselves and there is no need for hysteria or shouting. In our local park everyone is lovey and we all encourage off-lead interaction. The puppies or newcomers
learn fast and most people are quite relaxed about how dogs establish a pecking order among themselves. It really does make for a much more enjoyable and laid-back dog-walking experience!

 

[I.M.N.]

You can train your dog every hour of the day till you're blue in the face, but the one thing you can never train your dog is how to dog, this is what dogs teach each other, and this ridiculously sterile environment dogs are expected to exist in nowadays is what I believe has lead to all these "reactive" dogs.

I have a GSD who likes to say hello to every dog we meet, he is slightly nervous so has all his hackles up (ears to tail, long haired) for most meetings, if the other dog is off the lead he knows he's allowed to say hello if it's on lead he knows he has to walk past. He never bounds, he just ambles along, if he ends up saying hello to the other dog in a way the dog doesn't like (usually too much bottom sniffing) the other dog tells him so and then they carry on their interaction with mine now understanding the boundaries of the new dog, this is not me using someone else's dog to train mine, this is someone else's dog teaching mine something only dogs can teach each other. Due to him being a GSD most people look ready to pick their dogs up and run (some actually do), however I will not alter how I handle him due to other peoples ill informed judgements as I refuse to have a dog that's never allowed to dog. I suspect most people would have me stick mine on a lead every time I get a hint of a dog on the horizon just in case he has the audacity to want to interact with his own species.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I'm jealous of these other lovely owners! One lab used to attack Jake, every single time. Jake was very submissive. The final straw was when he was on lead after a cruciate op. The owner told me to walk elsewhere because her dog attacked mine. Curious.

I can let two of mine mix but Zak cannot mix, it's not fair on other dogs and if I muzzle him, he can't retrieve. There has been two minor spats in about four years. Dogs should be dogs, I agree, but Zak socialises with his own pack and no, I don't think it's a good idea to let him tell off other dogs, he goes way too far.

 

[fredders]

I dont take him to a busy park and expect everyone to keep their dogs away from him. I do take him to quiet places and keep my distance if I see a dog he doesn't know. He does get to socialise with other dogs. There are about 7 or 8 dogs he knows that he is fine with. I know dogs sometimes ignore their owners and come running up but if the owner catches it or calls it away its not a problem. Its when they come up to my dog and do nothing. Letting their dog do what ever it wants even though my dog is clearly unhappy. He will socalize if introduced to others in a calm controlled way. I realize he is not a normal dog and be is better then he was but I dont think he ever will be completely normal. He was socialized as a puppy. Came everywhere with me and went to puppy and training classes but he got scared a few times by other dogs when he was older. I really do wish he was more friendly to other dogs. It would make life so much easier. Hes not a bad dog .

 

[PucciNPoni]

You can train your dog every hour of the day till you're blue in the face, but the one thing you can never train your dog is how to dog, this is what dogs teach each other, and this ridiculously sterile environment dogs are expected to exist in nowadays is what I believe has lead to all these "reactive" dogs.

I have a GSD who likes to say hello to every dog we meet, he is slightly nervous so has all his hackles up (ears to tail, long haired) for most meetings, if the other dog is off the lead he knows he's allowed to say hello if it's on lead he knows he has to walk past. He never bounds, he just ambles along, if he ends up saying hello to the other dog in a way the dog doesn't like (usually too much bottom sniffing) the other dog tells him so and then they carry on their interaction with mine now understanding the boundaries of the new dog, this is not me using someone else's dog to train mine, this is someone else's dog teaching mine something only dogs can teach each other. Due to him being a GSD most people look ready to pick their dogs up and run (some actually do), however I will not alter how I handle him due to other peoples ill informed judgements as I refuse to have a dog that's never allowed to dog. I suspect most people would have me stick mine on a lead every time I get a hint of a dog on the horizon just in case he has the audacity to want to interact with his own species.

I have my OWN small pack in which to teach each other, and I go to organised training and I do have plenty of occasions in which to socialise my dogs. But the last thing I want is to have to stop and socialise with every dog on the road when we're doing a fitness walk or trying to get from A to B.

I actually had my two better behaved dogs on leads, young show bitch and the veteran poodle - four big retrievers came up out of no where, one with hackles up. Owner way down the road. I'm next to a road. I had to stop so they didn't follow me across the road that I was about to cross. Sorry, this is not acceptable behaviour in my opinion. Have a dog be a dog fair enough. But don't allow it to interfere with other people. It's like having a child who can't sit in it's chair at a restaurant because mummy and daddy don't think they should interfere with the child from being a child, so allow the child to wander over to other people and go and chit chat or play under their table.

 

[PucciNPoni]

I dont take him to a busy park and expect everyone to keep their dogs away from him. I do take him to quiet places and keep my distance if I see a dog he doesn't know. He does get to socialise with other dogs. There are about 7 or 8 dogs he knows that he is fine with. I know dogs sometimes ignore their owners and come running up but if the owner catches it or calls it away its not a problem. Its when they come up to my dog and do nothing. Letting their dog do what ever it wants even though my dog is clearly unhappy. He will socalize if introduced to others in a calm controlled way. I realize he is not a normal dog and be is better then he was but I dont think he ever will be completely normal. He was socialized as a puppy. Came everywhere with me and went to puppy and training classes but he got scared a few times by other dogs when he was older. I really do wish he was more friendly to other dogs. It would make life so much easier. Hes not a bad dog .

Exactly - I don't go to the dog park on busy weekends and expect everyone to behave the same way I do or expect the dogs to not want to interact. I don't do it at the beach either. BUt if I'm walking three dogs on leads by myself and get accosted by some eeejit's playful unruly dog while i'm just walking past on a pavement I think that's really unfortunate...so it makes me really think about when and where I take my dogs and how I get them there.