'Off the leg' and not bothered by whip

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TomH

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I've started doing some proper schooling work with a 5 year old I am bringing on, and I am having trouble getting him sharper off my leg.

He is very good with voice aids which I have been using at the same time as my leg, and he does respond, but sometimes he can be a little sluggish in what he gives me.

In this instance, I would usually back my leg up with the schooling whip, however, he doesn't really react to this - taking laid back to a whole new level...!

I am reluctant to use the whip anymore. I have thought about maybe tying something on to the end of the whip, but worried this might just scare him?

Has anyone else experienced this?

I am used to working with hotter horses and this guy is as bombproof as they come - even to whips obviously.

Any suggestions?
 
I'll preface this by saying I personally rarely ride with aids, but I'd be inclined to use a pair of dummy spurs before I tied something to the end of the whip - Ive never heard of anyone doing that before so I'm not sure what you have in mind, exactly. That way you can ask nicely with your leg (no spur), and give a firm nudge with the spur as a follow up if they don't listen.

But this is with the caveat that you can a) use a pair of spurs properly and b) you know the horse isn't going to object massively. Some horses are fine wiht them but others aren't.
 
My girl is the same, I am just hacking her out to get her more forward as she thinks schooling is the devil's work. She's much more responsive when out. Does this chap like jumping? I am going to put a cross pole in when the weather is ok as she finds that much more exciting. For her its more an issue of being stale I think and I need to show her its not all boring circles and hard work in the school :-)
 
Sorry I forgot to add that I tried spurs and he really hated them.

Putting a jump up in the arena is a great idea thank you. We are doing some hacking, but maybe I will add another hacking day into his routine to get him thinking forwards more.

In terms of tying something on the end of the whip, I was thinking a bit of twine or something.

Thanks guys
 
I would not tie bail twine to the end of the whip. I can't actually see how that would back up your leg and probably has the potential to cause an accident.
 
Hackie said:
I would not tie bail twine to the end of the whip. I can't actually see how that would back up your leg and probably has the potential to cause an accident.
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OK maybe not such a great idea

Hence why I came on here to get suggestions from you lovely ladies
 
I'd keep him in lively company, whether out hacking or in a school. Infact I'd probably only use the school if there were kids/teens playing fast games, or someone doing canter work on something forwards. Not only will it get him thinking forwards himself, he'll get fitter & build up the correct muscles from always going forwards, & it makes it far easier to get him to respond to a light aid.
 
Unfortunately you often have to choose between bombproof & laidback or sharp and spookier. As others have said, I would concentrate on hacking with this horse, there is no reason why you have to school in an arena, schooling canhappen on a hack just as well, build up his muscles and fitness and you will probably build up his enthusiasm but if you want to sellhim on at a later date, make the most of his laidback nature -horses like that are worth their weight in gold.
 
I've got one of these - you can improve it with work, fitness, schooling (and in his case I also hunted him which opened him up a bit) but tbh it's not his first love and will always be a bit of an uphill struggle. I didn't try and feed him for energy as he's a good doer so would probably just have gotten fatter.

I have seen people have success with a whip/whop I think it's called - a short rope thing that you use in your hand and then flap around their shoulder. For laidback horses the need some oopmph it might be worth a try.

Other tips I've had - move your leg further back in case he's densitised where you usually use your aid, are you nagging and don't know about it, take your leg right off then apply the aid quickly, lightly waggle the end of the whip and only stop waggling when he moves forward.

Oh, and transitions, transitions, transitions. And pole work/jumping if that wakes him up.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Unfortunately you often have to choose between bombproof & laidback or sharp and spookier. As others have said, I would concentrate on hacking with this horse, there is no reason why you have to school in an arena, schooling canhappen on a hack just as well, build up his muscles and fitness and you will probably build up his enthusiasm but if you want to sellhim on at a later date, make the most of his laidback nature -horses like that are worth their weight in gold.
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Yes perhaps schooling on hacks is the way forward!

He will be sold on as a safe mother/daughter share, so he is probably never going to have to perform advanced dressage moves, it would just be nice to have him nicely schooled before he goes.

It's a shame he is a project, I have actually grown quite fond of him
 
Bernster said:
I have seen people have success with a whip/whop I think it's called - a short rope thing that you use in your hand and then flap around their shoulder. For laidback horses the need some oopmph it might be worth a try.

Other tips I've had - move your leg further back in case he's densitised where you usually use your aid, are you nagging and don't know about it, take your leg right off then apply the aid quickly, lightly waggle the end of the whip and only stop waggling when he moves forward.

Oh, and transitions, transitions, transitions. And pole work/jumping if that wakes him up.
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Yes I was going to ask about the whip whop thing, I have seen them but never tried one! Do they work?

Yes I have tried moving my leg back, it works well to begin with and then he gets a bit lazy again. I'm definitely not nagging either.

I think transitions on hacks is going to be our new aim!

Thanks for your advice :)
 
I have one of those, 'i hate the school unless im jumping' types, taking him out on a hack tho and its a whole different horse!

anyway, I find the following useful (I never carry a whip becuase hes terrifed of them and I havent used spurs on him either)

- keeping the schooling interesting- putting out odd poles round the school to go over
- asking for different movements like leg yeilding, circles etc
- and lots and lots of transitions! this really is the BEST way of getting them off the leg, last night I was doing walk and trot transitions with Leo, I tend to warm him up and then have a canter on both reins, this also wakes him up a bit, then I was doing walk trot transition, literally a few strides of walk then ask for the trot, ask once with a nudge, if no response a kick and then a double kick if he ignores that, once hes trotting, a few strides then back to walk and literally repeat and repeat until he is responding to the first nudge, keep changing the rein, add in halts at certain markers, and then once hes listening do halt to trot tansitions and vise versa, it worked beautifully with Leo last night :D :D

good luck!! :D
 
I have one of these types and it doesn't matter what I am doing with him, he does it slow! lol! Apart from lunge work... that has been quite good :)

I have tried spurs - dummy ones don't make much difference but bigger ones do - once he's finished his tantrum. The thing with dummy ones is that they can be ignored - particularly if said horse has rhino skin and a layer of baby blubber... sharper / bigger spurs can't be ignored but the teenager in the youngster think they can argue with them... once they realise that they always get the same answer, they tend to get on with it.

I HAVE tried tying a piece of carrier bag to my whip, didn't make a hell of a lot of difference other than that he tended to shy away from it.... perhaps trying with two whips would be more effective.

I also use different lenths / styles of whip to school with so that he doesn't get too accustomed to the feel of a certain one.

I have also found great benefit in having someone on the ground with a lunge whip to back up my aids, very useful. Perhaps you could recruit someone to help you for say a week and then drop it down to every other session and then once a week when he gets the idea?

I have to agree though, fitness and stamina play a huge part and these take a while to build in a young horse so until this is achieved it will be quite a struggle...

pleny of transitions should help - and I agree with waking them up with a good canter too :)
 
Another thing you could try, is to give the lightest leg aid possible, if he doesn't react in a positive way, instantly (it must be instant for him to associate) pick up the end of your reins and flick them quickly over and over his withers making a "get on with it" noise (whatever suits) to make him buck up.

Keep repeating this until he starts to respond to lighter leg aids.

Make sure you are not accidently holding him back when you give your forward aids! Even if it means not being on the bit until you have established off the leg.

Carl Hesters top tip, is to give the light leg aid, if they don't respond, then literally give a good old pony club kick and whip at the same time if needed, but do NOT restrict the front end, let them go forward at whatever speed they want as long as they are going forward. Again, you may have to repeat on several occassions to get him going forward off a light aid.
 
Hit your boot with your stick - noise stimulation - or the fence works well, make sure you are sat tight but giving with your hands so you dont stop him with those. Reward for forward

Also teach rein back, get him sitting back on his hock with his back nicely rounded then straight into trot once its established :)
 
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