Offering DIY livery - what to include in contract / yard rules?

HappyNeds

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2010
Messages
272
Visit site
I know ithis is probably a minefield but we've finally decided to have a couple of DIY-ers to rent stables on our private yard.

It will be stables, use of outdoor arena and paddock. We are trying to make sure we've thought of everything up front to include in either the contract or yard rules, so things run as smoothly as possible from the start, and so we don't wind people up by keeping adding things.

The main problem for us is we've never been on someone else's yard or had livery ourselves - in all the years we've had our horses we've either rented fields and now finally have our own small yard -so we've no idea what 'normal' is for these things.

I know quite a few of you are YOs yourself or have rented your own stables/yard, please can I benefit from your experience! If you wouldn't mind sharing me with what you have included in your contracts, and yard rules (I'm also having difficulty deciding what should be in the contract and what should just be 'manners').

Thank you
 

flow

Active Member
Joined
26 February 2012
Messages
45
Visit site
I don't own a yard but have and am on a livery yard.
A few things to think about:
Poo picking. Will the horse owner be doing it. How often do you want it doing?
Who is responsible for fencing?
How often will you expect them to come down if horse living out 24/7
Or do you not want the horses living out 24/7
What will be the turn out times the if not?
Do you allow dogs/ children on the yard?
Do you want hose pipes (yes I was on a yard that didn't allow them due to very large water bills)
Hay will you supply or can they supply what storage will they get to store it
Will you restrict visiting times if you live on site?
Hum that's all for now get your started
 

HappyNeds

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2010
Messages
272
Visit site
Thanks flow, really useful - there are a few things in your list that we had not even thought of!

Wondering though - things like poo picking, dogs/children - should these kinds of things be in the contract, or do you have these things as general yard rules, or is it best to just have everything (even all the small stuff) in the contract?
 

ILuvCowparsely

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 April 2010
Messages
14,393
Visit site
I know ithis is probably a minefield but we've finally decided to have a couple of DIY-ers to rent stables on our private yard.

It will be stables, use of outdoor arena and paddock. We are trying to make sure we've thought of everything up front to include in either the contract or yard rules, so things run as smoothly as possible from the start, and so we don't wind people up by keeping adding things.

The main problem for us is we've never been on someone else's yard or had livery ourselves - in all the years we've had our horses we've either rented fields and now finally have our own small yard -so we've no idea what 'normal' is for these things.

I know quite a few of you are YOs yourself or have rented your own stables/yard, please can I benefit from your experience! If you wouldn't mind sharing me with what you have included in your contracts, and yard rules (I'm also having difficulty deciding what should be in the contract and what should just be 'manners').

Thank you
My contract is the same as the part livery one except the *what you get included bit* which differs

D.I.Y INCLUDES


Use of facilities
Common room (tea and coffee)
Horse shower
Tackroom ( deposit on key required)
Jumps
W - C
Library (books to be returned after) use)
Hoof branding
Parking for horseboxes - trailers
Holiday cover by arrangement
storage area for feed etc
chest freezer

and the contract is the same for both:

doctored the yard out but here goes

LIVERY AGREEMENT


Agreement with ************** (the "Stables")




Livery payments are due one month in advance.

In case of emergency, if the owner cannot be contacted the owners vet, or if unavailable, then the yard vet will be called to treat the horse and the owner will be responsible for the payment.

Horses must have a flu/tetanus certificate.

Horses will be wormed and worm counts done at the chosen time(s)

One month’s notice of a livery price increase will be given. (This happens in January)

Liveries are entitled to one bridle and saddle rack and a reasonable sized trunk.

Invoicing is every 4 weeks, and must be paid within 3 days – no exceptions.

Horses that kick their door must have their bottom bars across when in stable.

Notice of termination of livery is 1 month for either party where there is serious fall out between yard owner and client, the yard owner reserves the right to terminate this agreement with immediate effect, and they must remove the horse from the yard.

OWNERS ARE ADVISED TO INSURE THEMSELVES AND THEIR HORSES FOR PUBLIC AND PERSONAL LIABILITY AND INSURE AND THEIR TACK, VEHICLES ETC. THE STABLES OFFER NO INSURANCE FOR RIDERS, THEIR HORSES, GUESTS OR FRIENDS.

I have read and accepted and will abide by the yard rules.


I fully understand the terms of this agreement and the yard rules and accept what is included in the livery.


Signed ……………………………………………..

Date ……………………..
 
Last edited:

ILuvCowparsely

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 April 2010
Messages
14,393
Visit site
then there are other forms like owners details and horses details forms

Yard rules are



YARD RULES.

• NO DOGS ALLOWED ON PREMISES (unless previously agreed)

• NO SMOKING WITHIN xxxxxxxxx PREMISES
•
• PLEASE DO NOT HELP YOURSELF TO FEED OR HAY ( unless previously agreed)

• PICK OUT HORSES FEET BEFORE LEADING THEM OUT OF THEIR STABLE

• NO ONE ON THE YARD BEFORE 7.30 AM OR AFTER 8.30PM ( unless previously agreed)
•
• PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE SCHOOL LIGHTS ON WHEN NOT IN USE – SWITCH THEM OFF AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AFTER VACATING THE SCHOOL.

PLEASE RESPECT THE PRIVACY OF THE OWNERS BYE ONLY CONTACTING THEM WHEN ABSOLUTLY NECESSARY OR IN EMERGENCY

TACKROOM SHOULD BE LOCKED AND / OR ALARMED WHEN IN THE SCHOOLS OR OUT RIDING.

• DO NO LET ANY VISITORS SEE THE COMBINATION CODE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

• ONLY LIVERIES OR SHARERS / INSTRUCTRESSES ALLOWED THE COMBINATION

• PICK UP DROPPINGS WHEN PASSED AND PUT IN BUCKETS / TRAILER.

• DROPPINGS PASSED IN OUTDOOR SCHOOL CAN BE PUT DIRECTLY ONTO MUCK HEAP BY FORK PROVIDED.
• DROPPINGS IN INDOOR SCHOOL CAN BE PLACED IN BUCKET PROVIDED

• PUT AWAY ALL JUMPS / POLES AFTER USE
• BREAKAGES MUST BE PAID FOR OR REPLACED

• HARD HATS MUST BE WORN WHEN MOUNTED

• ITS DOWN TO THE LIVERY INDIVIDUALS TO MAKE SURE THEIR VISITORS ABIDE BY THE YARD RULES.

• ALL CHILDREN MUST BE SUPERVISED.

• ALL LIVERIES MUST CLEAR THE YARD AFTER THEMSELVES OF HAY- HAIR -AND MUD ETC DONT LEAVE IT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO CLEAR UP.

HORSE RIDING IS A HIGH RISK SPORT AND HOLDS POTENTIAL DANGERS. HORSES MAY REACT UNPREDICTABLY AT TIMES.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx its Owners accept no responsibility for injury to person(s) or damage to their property.
All persons involved with horse activities at the stables are strongly advised to get personal insurance to cover all horse riding and associated activities.

Hope that helps :)
 
Last edited:

HappyNeds

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2010
Messages
272
Visit site
Ooooo - thank you! I was hoping for some actual examples of the wording used, thank you for including your contract, very very helpful :)
 

Notimetoride

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 August 2014
Messages
1,093
Visit site
Ive built two small yards and with both, one of the conditions (there were many conditions) of the planning permission was that the stables arent used commercially. So be sure to check this out first
 

katherine1975

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 January 2010
Messages
1,787
Location
Devon
Visit site
Also be aware that the council might charge you non domestic rates as you are renting out stables. And does it affect your insurance?
 

Henry02

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 September 2011
Messages
458
Visit site
Only thing I wouldn't be happy with in example above is clause saying horse must be removed immediately.

Granted this is probably what would happen, but you cannot always get another livery space immediately as well as someone to transport it.

It would possibly make me wonder if yo is one of those nutters you read about on here
 

fatponee

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 May 2007
Messages
603
Location
West Sussex
Visit site
Other things to consider are who is responsible for the maintenance (harrowing, rolling etc.) of the fields and also removal of muck heap. Will these be included in rent? Also ensuring general rubbish, such as empty feed sacks and baler twine, are disposed of frequently and correctly.
 

HappyNeds

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2010
Messages
272
Visit site
Ive built two small yards and with both, one of the conditions (there were many conditions) of the planning permission was that the stables arent used commercially. So be sure to check this out first

We do have this condition on ours too, not to use it commercially. But as we aren't providing any services at all, just renting the premises, I assumed this doesn't count as commercial.

A bit like if you start a B&B then you are running a business because you are providing services, but anyone can just rent their complete house to someone or rent a spare room to a lodger as that isn't running a business.

I know if we ever lost our current horses we wouldn't sell our yard, we'd keep it and rent it to someone for their private use, so I didn't see the difference between this and us renting part of it to someone for their private use?

Has anyone had any experiences of this themselves? Have you had any problems with this? I would appreciate your experiences, we certainly don't want to suddenly start paying a fortune in business rates or cause ourselves problems in other ways. Thanks
 

webble

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 August 2012
Messages
4,762
Location
Border of Cheshire/Wirral/ N Wales
Visit site
I'm pretty sure this would class as commercial use and come under business rates, you will also need the correct insurance

one thing to think about is bedding types and what you are and aren't happy for them to use
 

spacie1977

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 June 2013
Messages
235
Visit site
This might be useful. http://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/F...ry Yard Agreement Guidelines and Example.ashx
There are other contracts out there in google land that are less long winded but BHS will cover all bases. I'd personally have a contract to lay down the more serious rules, and include a list of general yard rules/courtesies, which would also be printed and stuck on the walk in the tack room as a reminder.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 February 2009
Messages
11,027
Location
Slopping along on a loose rein somewhere in Devon
Visit site
There are some very good contracts from "HG-12" and others on here.

Awful subject, but you really would need to think about a "euthanasia clause", i.e. words to the effect that if a horse suffers serious injury or condition such as colic etc and the owner cannot be contacted then the YO has the right to call a vet and that if all reasonable attempts to contact the owner fail then the vet may then authorise immediate euthanasia for humane reasons. I've had to sign this on all yards I've been on.

I'd also make sure you have an understanding about (if they have a lorry/trailer) whereabouts this is parked and that this is strictly at their own risk and must be moved if it is in the way and not block entrances etc. If you accept money for storage then you will also have to pay extra on your insurance for it. Most yards say its at owners risk for this reason.

Also ask for a deposit on any keys you issue: I had a livery who left, taking her set of keys with her. She said she'd posted them back, but I never received them and it cost me a considerable sum to change the locks on everything afterwards :(

Also have some ruling about how many times a day and at what time of day the owner may see to their horses. We live on site, so important for us as if people come very early in the morning or are here at night it sets off the security alarm; livery is very good and always lets us know if she's leaving early/coming back late for a show or whatever tho.

Have a clause written in your contract stipulating clearly how many times a day the livery must see to their animal: and clearly stating that if this does NOT happen then IMMEDIATE notice must be given and the horse removed forthwith; also that they will be invoiced for if other staff or YO have to see to the animal instead.

Sorry (edited) forgot to include that my rule is "if you/your horse damage it, YOU replace it". You may wish to consider asking for a deposit up front for exigencies like this, coz its funny how it is never anyone's precious horse who's actually damaged anything!!! We've had one here who literally tried climbing over the stable door and the livery wouldn't admit there was a problem even when she saw it happening before her eyes!!

On some yards there is a safety-wear code, i.e. "hats, gloves & correct footwear must be worn at all times when riding or leading horses in the yard or curtillage and hi-viz must be worn if road-hacking". Plus, obviously, "strictly no smoking" and "no alcohol"!!! You could add to this that ONLY people with horses on the yard have the right to be there, i.e. no non-horsey OH's hanging around and dropping fag-ends and beer cans everywhere, or screaming kids running around and/or dogs barking!!!

Start as you mean to go on would be my advice. Be firm, fair, and efficient in your approach. If you don't know the person enquiring for livery, then ask them who they know and where they've been before. See if you can do a little research i.e. local hunt/pony clubs/riding clubs. If they've come out of no-where and nobody's heard of them then be just that little bit cagey. If they say they've been at a certain yard, then check it out, go there and hang around and/or ride past and have a chat with the other liveries or the YO........... if they're trouble, you want to know it don't you?? And the best people to tell you are fellow liveries.

Oh.......... and DON'T have your best friends on your yard. Love them to bits, but let them keep their horses somewhere else. You need to be strictly professional and not let any issues of personal friendship get in the way because at some point you will have to be a dragon and make an unpopular edict and the last thing you want is a "friend" sobbing on your shoulder saying she feels you've betrayed her and getting all crawly. Nope! keep it strictly professional at all times.

Good luck anyway.
 
Last edited:

Firefly9410

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 November 2014
Messages
1,206
Visit site
Horses are not people so lodger rules and tenancy agreements for houses will not apply. If you are renting out stables it is business. Even if you rented out a whole house you would have to declare the income. Lots of YO do not worry about the legalities though and rent stables without declaring anything so you would not be the only one.
 

HappyNeds

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 May 2010
Messages
272
Visit site
Thanks MiJodsR2BlinkinTite, some really very helpful things there to include and think about, brilliant post.

Horses are not people so lodger rules and tenancy agreements for houses will not apply. If you are renting out stables it is business. Even if you rented out a whole house you would have to declare the income. Lots of YO do not worry about the legalities though and rent stables without declaring anything so you would not be the only one.

Surely declaring the income is separate though, that's a tax issue (and we will declare it), but that doesn't make it commercial just because you have to declare income to the tax man, just like you have to declare income of interest from savings accounts (not that any of us who have horses have any savings!!), but that alone doesn't make it commercial.

I must be able to rent it to someone else for their private use? Otherwise my planning condition is basically saying if I can't use it personally I either have to let it sit fallow, or sell it?
 

Firefly9410

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 November 2014
Messages
1,206
Visit site
I am not a planning expert or a business expert so perhaps you are right. I am aware that there are properties where you cannot get the use changed from the type it is currently to another particular type or be granted planning consent for a particular activity, so it is entirely possible for a person to own property that is of no use to them because they cannot use it for their chosen purpose. A friend of mine leased a shop, prior to signing the lease was the application for planning consent for the type of business she wanted to run there. Had she not got it she would not have leased that shop. I know of some people who work from home and only deal in cash, to avoid declaring income on a business they have no permission to be running from their home, because they think to be completely unofficial means less chance of being caught than being partly official. Maybe they are wrong but that is what they do. You can speak to planning departments about queries without applying for planning consent, to make sure any applications are more likely to be granted or as in your case to find out if you want to bother with the whole thing at all. They will I think be able to tell you if what you propose is a business and/or requires new planning permission. Or you can ignore me if you think I am talking nonsense, it does not bother me either way! :D I was trying to help, that is all.
 

Blurr

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 December 2011
Messages
546
Visit site
I'd check your planning permissions carefully. It is perfectly possible for a planning consent to restrict use such that you cannot rent your facilities and yes, that means they go unused if you don't use them. You can always operate under the radar and hope no-one says anything.

Planning permission sometimes name the people who can do something. For instance, a pond near me had planning permission for the owner Mr X and his family to fish it. When he sold it, the new owner was not allowed to fish his own pond! He had to apply for permission and what he applied for was that anyone could fish the pond, and what he got with some wrangling, was that anyone who owned (and their family) the pond could fish it so that when he came to sell it, it was sold with permission already granted. It really can be as specific as the planning dept wish to make it.

The point the planning dept were making in their very restrictive permissions was that the pond remained in private use and should not have any commercial use, that is, the owner could not charge people to fish his pond (because that would involve much more rigorous decision making involving the highways agency, and stuff). Much like a manege, I think.

And yes, if he and his family don't fish it, no-one does.
 

Notimetoride

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 August 2014
Messages
1,093
Visit site
When we applied for PP at the 2 yards we built, we had to specify that the yard was for private use only, and also the manège we had to specify private use only. We were even advised in the planning app for the manège, to call it a manège and not a school or arena as both school and arena can imply other people will use it. I've just checked the planning app online and we entitled it "outdoor manège fur exercising own horses". We took advice, and were told we had to make it very clear that the app was for our own personal use. The planning permission for both the stables and manège was granted with v strict rules about being for our own personal use and what's worse is that we had busy body neighbours in v close proximity
 

OWLIE185

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 June 2005
Messages
3,535
Visit site
Don't do it as it will be more hastle than it is worth and will cost you loads of money long term.
The local authority will charge you commercial rates when they find out which equates to about £8.00 per stable.
You will also need a commercial insurance policy.
 
Top