Offering livery at private yard - implications experience please

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cre8tivekid

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Has anyone looked into the implications of offering livery at their own yard. Got a few spare stables and nice facilities and was considering offering a full/ part livery service.

BUT not sure if it would be worth it bearing in mind that I can foresee potential planning, insurance, rates, tax considerations.

Has anyone ever costed this up/ looked into it further to see if it is a reasonable option?

Any experience would be appreciated.
 
yes I've done it. have made friends for life with come clients even though they moved away to another part of the country we have always kept in touch. it wasn't all positive there are those that don't pay esp around xmas and those who don't give their horse enough hay or bedding. maybe state in the contract that if in your opinion the horse needs more feed/bedding you will provide it and charge accordingly. other than that it was a great experience.
 
Yes, have done it previously. Learned the hard way, so took a month & half deposit up front as well as a months livery bill.
Contract in place & if monthly bill not paid in advance within 48 hrs of x date each month, then notice taken for a month ahead.
Only had one defaulter after that & I even kindly delivered her horse at the end of the month..... withholding the final 2 weeks money for additional labour that wasn't paid for. I delivered it to her home......

I did full livery 25 yrs ago, then part. Nothing for about 15 yrs, then I've had occasional temporary summer DIY grass liveries.
The last lot of summer liveries was in 2016 - lovely travellers who paid on the nail & really cared for their ponies :)
 
Frumpoon said:
It is however a business which ever way you see it
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What is the definition of a business?

I have, and kept careful accounts to demonstrate for anyone interested that the income is simply to defray running costs and never to make a profit

Non payers wasn't a problem (paid a month in advance) as much as people who felt they had the right to treat the place as though it was their own and yet still expected the fairies to clean up after them. I should have put a written contract in place but I always felt that was too formal, naively hoped people would respect me and my property. No longer do it because my yard is where I go to relax, not get into conflict
 
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JillA said:
What is the definition of a business?

I have, and kept careful accounts to demonstrate for anyone interested that the income is simply to defray running costs and never to make a profit

Non payers wasn't a problem (paid a month in advance) as much as people who felt they had the right to treat the place as though it was their own and yet still expected the fairies to clean up after them. I should have put a written contract in place but I always felt that was too formal, naively hoped people would respect me and my property. No longer do it because my yard is where I go to relax, not get into conflict
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HMRC definition of a business is anybody who supplies a service that somebody pays for , They require proper accounts and registration for self assessment keeping figures that show its not for profit in their eyes does not mean you dont have to register.

As you quite rightly point out though Jilla if the OP values their freedom and enjoyment of their own property they shouldnt do it. The minimum apart from HMRC the OP would have to do is a change of use to business use on the buildings and land and to register for non domestic rates AKA business rates.
 
I do it and have done for 13 years. I used to have 8 liveries, now I have cut it down to 3 because this is much more managable for me (they are all part livery so everything except exercise and tack cleaning). I absolutely love it most of the time, especially, as now, when I have such a lovely set of liveries. I only have the one horse of my own now, so having liveries also provides companionship for her without me needing to buy another. The lovely ladies who are my liveries provide companionship for me too. I have people to ride with if I want and we all help and encourage one another. However, it does not make much of a profit. I have made a loss some years. The most it does is pay for my own horse and a small chunk of the mortgage.
 
popsdosh said:
HMRC definition of a business is anybody who supplies a service that somebody pays for , They require proper accounts and registration for self assessment keeping figures that show its not for profit in their eyes does not mean you dont have to register.
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There are exceptions to that though - renting a room in your house for example. If private owners who took in a livery had to pay business rates that would wipe out any benefits wouldn't it - much of it goes on under the radar presumably
 
What you need to do first is too look into the insurance and rate situation once you know and understand the implications of what's that is going to cost then work out what the market rate is for what you what to offer in your area.
If that will turn a profit then you need to decide if you want to manage liverys and livery even if it's diy need a far bit of management .
If you have a surface it will be rated as if it's a building but I think you will get small buisiness rate relief .
Getting your stables rated if at home is a risky step as it can be difficult to down grade the rating to domestic later however if you already pay business rates on your yard this makes no difference .
 
JillA said:
There are exceptions to that though - renting a room in your house for example. If private owners who took in a livery had to pay business rates that would wipe out any benefits wouldn't it - much of it goes on under the radar presumably
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Renting a room is an exception subject a the limit because the government passed and act to make it exempt to encourage house sharing .
 
As others have said there is a lot to check on. I believe our local council is checking on premises to see if they are eligible for business rates. I have heard of one place that closed because the rates were exorbitant and could not possibly be recouped from the liveries.
 
My Mum is a council tax officer and her advice is always to ring the local authority and ask about the implications. There are some situations where business rates do not apply and you won't know without phoning. Trying to fly under the radar is all well and good but she said no end of people snitch on their neighbours so it isn't worth it.
 
Hmm food for thought thanks all.

At the moment I am not registered for business use at all and my gut feeling was that the rates would probably wipe out any potential income. Really just wondered if anyone had done the sums to find at what point it might become worthwhile. Suspect that there could be planning issues too as we are domestic.

Really just looking to get a bit extra in to help towards the upkeep of the place.

A bit concerned about loss of privacy so that was why I was leaning towards full livery so I don't have so much disruption.
 
I have had a go at both, renting a room and renting stables and grazing. The first is far less trouble and more profit able.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sment-helpsheet/hs223-rent-a-room-scheme-2017

Perhaps I was just unlucky, but I have had two liveries that did not work out and I was left seriously out of pocket with one. I have a Mon-Fri lodger who I never see and is no trouble. Its tax free and I do perhaps one hours work a week on cleaning/bed change.
 
I went under the radar and rented a field for two ponies to a 'friend' from my previous livery yard when we moved to our new property which came with land. I would not do it again. It took me a good couple of months to get rid of her, I always had to chase for rent and she rarely even looked at the ponies from week to week. Two mares who were very clean and poo'd in three places in the one acre field they had. Those three places are now sour as she never 'got round' to poo picking so will take a good while to come right as horses wont graze those areas!

I would not do it again!

We do however have a mid week lodger, had him for about 5 years now, he even moved with us. Easy money.
 
I did it for 6 months and would never do it again. The stables are metres from my house and we hated the livery turning up when we were still in bed, marching in to the kitchen wanting something and telling us how to run things. We valued our privacy and quiet too much.
 
case895 said:
I did it for 6 months and would never do it again. The stables are metres from my house and we hated the livery turning up when we were still in bed, marching in to the kitchen wanting something and telling us how to run things. We valued our privacy and quiet too much.
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Blimey, no wonder you were put off! Never in all my years being a livery have I walked into a YOer's house without being invited in. Never in all my years as a YO have I had a livery walk into my house unless invited in.
 
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