Official Measurement (JMB) advice please

[minesadouble]

So, we are now in the position where we are going to need a height certificate for one of our horses. All of our ponies had JMB certs when we bought them and we've never needed a height certificate for any of the horses.
We have a coloured mare who is measuring 15.1 at home (smallest we can get her) and we want her 15hh.
Everyone has assured me that if she's 15.1 at home she will easily measure 15hh on a pad but it's still got us a bit stressed.
Has anyone got any tips to ensure she measures as small as she can on the day?
We are aware of the obvious ones (feet, relaxation & not in full work) but any hints from those with experience would be gratefully received!

 

[Casey76]

Why try and cheat? If she's 15.1, then she's 15.1.

 

[abbijay]

I have heard of many "tricks" (dehydration, exhaustion, dope) but the majority are cruel or inappropriate and I would expect a decent vet to spot it.
This thread may help you though http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?378753-Getting-a-horse-to-measure-in

 

[minesadouble]

Why try and cheat? If she's 15.1, then she's 15.1.

It's not cheating - they always measure smaller officially than they do at home and if they are tense they do measure Way bigger than if they can relax.

 

[minesadouble]

I have heard of many "tricks" (dehydration, exhaustion, dope) but the majority are cruel or inappropriate and I would expect a decent vet to spot it.
This thread may help you though http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?378753-Getting-a-horse-to-measure-in

I do know of the dehydration and taking their feet so far back that they are footsore, I'm certainly not going to go to such lengths but am looking for any above board tips to help us. Thanks for the link, I'll take a look

 

[be positive]

Don't forget it is done in cm's so she only needs to get down to 153cm not to 15hands, exercise before you take her so she is relaxed, if there is somewhere you can lunge quietly on arrival that may help, get her used to the stick and other people putting it on her, encourage her to drop her head although it must not go below the withers, most vets are well used to taking time and will help you as long as you have done as much to prepare as possible.

 

[minesadouble]

Thanks bp - I can't believe I forgot about the inch/cm conversion, that's made me feel much better!

 

[conniegirl]

Have you got a pair of ultra fine clipper blades? I normally clip all the hair off thier withers, with a pair of surgical clipper blades. If they are close the hair on thier wither can take you over the height you want

 

[{97702}]

My only horse with a JMB certificate was a little TB who needed to be certified for pony racing - there was no way he was genuinely 14.2hh, I think that has influenced my view of the idea to the extent I would say it is pretty much worthless....

 

[jakkibag]

Just wondered what class/society you need a height cert for minesadouble?
Have had quite a lot of mine measured recently, and hopefully can help?

 

[conniegirl]

My only horse with a JMB certificate was a little TB who needed to be certified for pony racing - there was no way he was genuinely 14.2hh, I think that has influenced my view of the idea to the extent I would say it is pretty much worthless....

You can't do a lot of affiliated showing classes without one.

 

[{97702}]

You can't do a lot of affiliated showing classes without one.

Oh I realise that - I was more commenting on the 'genuineness' of any qualification achieved......

 

[conniegirl]

Just wondered what class/society you need a height cert for minesadouble?
Have had quite a lot of mine measured recently, and hopefully can help?

By the sounds of it CHAPS or BSPA I would have said.
Both require a jmb certificates and both have a plaited pony class limit of 153cm.
Once in the horse class you really need something 16hh+ to get noticed

 

[conniegirl]

Oh I realise that - I was more commenting on the 'genuineness' of any qualification achieved......

Actually a lot of people are crap at judging height by eye or on a stick at home.
My Connemara measured 14hh max on a particularly tall day.
Stick a saddle on him and he looked so much bigger and really filled the eye.
He often (at least twice a season) had his height challenged at shows by the uneducated, but I knew that no matter if he was fully fit and in desperate need of having his feet done he would always measure under 14.2hh on a measuring pad.
He was recalled once for remeasurement mid season due to an official complaint.

I took him straight from the field a day after a show, to the measuring pad, had his shoes taken off at the pad and him measured, no relaxing time, no clipping of withers. He measured 142cm

 

[{97702}]

Actually a lot of people are crap at judging height by eye or on a stick at home.
My Connemara measured 14hh max on a particularly tall day.
Stick a saddle on him and he looked so much bigger and really filled the eye.
He was quite often had his height challenged by the uneducated, but I knew that no matter if he was fully fit and in desperate need of having his feet done he would always measure under 14.2hh on a measuring pad

That's great - my TB never remotely measured under 148cms in the year I had him, I was vaguely fascinated to know what they had done to get him to measure in....

 

[conniegirl]

That's great - my TB never remotely measured under 148cms in the year I had him, I was vaguely fascinated to know what they had done to get him to measure in....

Unless he was measured by one of the dodgey vets that was purged a good few years ago then I would suggest your height judgement is off, or your measuring stick is.
I regularly find that things will measure up to 2inches smaller on an official pad then they do on a home measurements and that's just with trimmed feet, relaxed horse and clipped withers

 

[Flyermc]

off topic but my pony is 14.1hh but EVERYONE comments that he's bigger. He isnt, i just think people seem to think horses are bigger than they are these days?

 

[{97702}]

Unless he was measured by one of the dodgey vets that was purged a good few years ago then I would suggest your height judgement is off, or your measuring stick is.
I regularly find that things will measure up to 2inches smaller on an official pad then they do on a home measurements and that's just with trimmed feet, relaxed horse and clipped withers

**reply deleted**

 

[Leo Walker]

I worked with showjumping ponies for a while. There was no way some of them were the height they were supposed to be. Nothing to so with dodgy sticks. Surely if you have to pare feet back, get them to slouch and trim hair with surgical blades thats no their actual height anyway? When they measure me at the hospital they use a measuring pad but they dont make me do any of that :lol:

 

[minesadouble]

Just wondered what class/society you need a height cert for minesadouble?
Have had quite a lot of mine measured recently, and hopefully can help?

CHAPS

 

[{97702}]

I worked with showjumping ponies for a while. There was no way some of them were the height they were supposed to be. Nothing to so with dodgy sticks. Surely if you have to pare feet back, get them to slouch and trim hair with surgical blades thats no their actual height anyway? When they measure me at the hospital they use a measuring pad but they dont make me do any of that :lol:

That is a far more tactful version of what I might say....

 

[minesadouble]

My old mare (now deceased) was 15.1 with her shoes on, she was bigger than most of our '16.2hh' liveries. I agree that in general people's perceptions of horse's heights are now way out. I have one at home who was advertised as 16hh who is no more than 15hh!

 

[{97702}]

I tend to measure my horses to avoid any doubt

 

[conniegirl]

I worked with showjumping ponies for a while. There was no way some of them were the height they were supposed to be. Nothing to so with dodgy sticks. Surely if you have to pare feet back, get them to slouch and trim hair with surgical blades thats no their actual height anyway? When they measure me at the hospital they use a measuring pad but they dont make me do any of that :lol:

When they measure you at the hospital it is not for the purposes of competition so an inch or 2 out doesn't matter.
That said they do ask you to take your shoes off and stand up straight and if you have a big puffy hair do they will squash your hair until thier stick touches your head not your hair.
I'm 5ft 3 but give me enough time and back combing I can bet 5ft6 easily, or better yet I could probably make 5ft 9 with high heels on and big puffy hair

With judicious plaiting and cobra plaits I can add an inch and a half to my horses wither.

A horses height is supposed to be measured to the highest skeletal fixed point, if you want to include hair in that then let's just measure them to the tip of thier ears and have done with it.

 

[conniegirl]

I tend to measure my horses to avoid any doubt

No doubt With an uncalibrated stick, on a yard that no doubt is not perfectly flat (no normal yard is as perfectly flat as a measuring pad) with the horses head much higher then its withers and more than likely on the wrong part of the wither, there is actually a very specific place on the wither that horses need to be measured to ensure a correct and consistent measurement

 

[SusieT]

If she's 15.1 she's 15.1 and more likely 15.2 - just accept her true height.

 

[jakkibag]

do you have a local measuring pad? Would think you would be fine for getting under 153 I'm always amazed at how they shrink under the official stick!

 

[minesadouble]

Thanks everyone, people with much more experience of official measurement than me have said if she's measuring 15.1 at home she will measure 153cm no problem, so hopefully I am worrying unnecessarily

 

[{97702}]

No doubt With an uncalibrated stick, on a yard that no doubt is not perfectly flat (no normal yard is as perfectly flat as a measuring pad) with the horses head much higher then its withers and more than likely on the wrong part of the wither, there is actually a very specific place on the wither that horses need to be measured to ensure a correct and consistent measurement

Indeed so - but it is sufficient for me to know that my 15.2hh horse isn't 16.2hh

 

[Shay]

I worried about getting our last BS pony under the stick for his LHC. With shoes and in a bad mood he was very easily 15.1hh. Then the day we had booked it snowed. So he was all up and excited plus we couldn't exercise before departure or lunge on arrival. The vet was very sweet and said we'd just try but if he came over we'd cancel and try again in better conditions. We had clipped with withers and done a lot of practice at home but not anything more. On first pass he came up 147.5. I have to say I was quite surprised.

We was challenged twice in the time we competed him - he was one of those ISH's who grow a hand or so when excited. We never needed to let him down - he passed each time. Relaxed with a calm vet and on a proper pad they do measure better than at home. And we did nothing nasty to him to get the height we needed - I know some do (or at least thats what gossip says) but in competition you always get those who try to skirt around the edges of permissibility.

On the other hand I have a 13.2ish cob pet (my daughter's first pony) whose passport thinks he is 14.2.....