Oh no! Flatcoat x Goldie! Why?

Chiffy

Chiffy

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Opened my Horse & Hound to see this x of puppies for sale. Why would you do it? Two lovely breeds that don't need intermingling. Very sad.
 
Maybe not deliberate. Working dogs are often crossed, I see a lot of lab X springers, possibly when a gamekeeper's dog has met up with another's. I don't see goldie X flatcoat as a bad mix, to be honest.
 
Yes CT, I hope they own both dogs and it was a mistake. I am sure they will be nice natured dogs but there is nothing to be gained by the cross. Labs and spaniels are very different.
The breed societies have worked hard to keep the breed standards correct but ofcourse these puppies cannot be registered so shouldn't get mixed into the purebred ones.
 
While I don't think there is any real purpose to adding an outcross to these breeds I don't see that with these two there is any huge harm in it either (obviously not for registration). They're at least similar size, head shape and confo and similar purpose and reasonably similar coat types.
 
Could it have been done to introduce another 'line' as it were to the flatcoat. My undetstanding is that the gene pool is quite small for them.
 
Ooh no Amymay, there are plenty of flatcoat lines and goldies are a different breed not just a different line of the same breed.
 
Both 'manufactured' breeds designed for (mostly) retrieving shot game at driven shoots. This type of shooting was popularised during the Victorian era. The Lab was originbally a commercial fisherman's dog and I think flat coat retrievers were a setter cross.

An interesting little book is Colonel Hutchin's "Dog Breaking" published in the 1800's when there was a lot of crossing of various breeds to fill a particular role and before the KC.

The KC defined breeds but without much logic and mostly based on colours. I've no objection to crossing for a purpose, so long as it is for a practical purpose rather than simply to make money.
 
being generous I'd say an accident, being cynical I'd say they're doing it for the £600? per pup.

Not as bad as the husky cross collie a rescue tried to sell me as a suitable dog for where I live, or my favourite-Malkitas.
 
But MoC if the mother is a pedigree flatcoat and was mated with another pedigree flatcoat the puppies would fetch more than £600!
Dry Rot, flatcoats are not different by colour alone but in type, build, temperament too.
 
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Chiffy said:
Ooh no Amymay, there are plenty of flatcoat lines and goldies are a different breed not just a different line of the same breed.
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But I'm told that flatcoat have cancer prevalent in some lines. Outcrossing can be useful-thinking of the dalmationans purine issue.

Why would you hope it was an accident and why is lab X springer more acceptable? Having had an altercation between one of my springers and a massive ruddy lab today, I can't imagine the benefit of crossing the two.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the so-called designer crossbreed which seems to have people jumping on bandwagons for the money and I'm very keen on 'my' breed, I find it a bit snotty to say it was hopefully a mistake.
 
My first thought when I saw the ad, was I hope both parents had the relevant breed health tests. At £600 they definitely should have !
 
Chiffy said:
But MoC if the mother is a pedigree flatcoat and was mated with another pedigree flatcoat the puppies would fetch more than £600!
.
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well yes of course, but if all you've got is one of each or access to one of each, its still easy money if you are the type of breeder that just doesn't care. We don't know that though, could just be an accident.
 
Hi CT, sorry, sometimes it is very difficult to get across what you mean on a forum rather than speaking face to face.
Why I hoped it was an accident and not a specific x idea was because I couldn't see any benefit to either breed.
I agree with you about your springers being fine as they are too and don't need crossing with labs. All I meant was if someone fancied the springer, lab cross they are much more different from each other ( oo er, not very good English) in looks and even size. I wouldn't want to cross them but someone might.
The Flatcoated Retriever Society works hard on health testing and investigating illness. It's amazing how quickly a breed can get a bad reputation that isn't true. I have had flatcoats for over 30 years and I have only lost one, who was 8 yrs old at the time to bone cancer. All her X-rays went to the research for the breed. All my other dogs have lived into old age.
Teaselmeg, there was no price in the advert.
 
Chiffy said:
But MoC if the mother is a pedigree flatcoat and was mated with another pedigree flatcoat the puppies would fetch more than £600!
Dry Rot, flatcoats are not different by colour alone but in type, build, temperament too.
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Thank you. I have owned, trained, and worked several of both breeds
 
Really ss! Do you know that for a fact? Why would the Guide Dog people specifically use a flatcoat/lab when Labradors are so good at the job in their own right? Flatcoats are intelligent and love to work but take longer to mature than labs and have a certain joie de vive and sense of humour! Think I might investigate that one.

Sorry Dry Rot, I didn't mean to imply you don't know about flatcoats, I know you have vast knowledge of gun dog breeds.
Think I better opt out of this thread now, it just touched a nerve!
 
Yes I did know that Thistle and they use pure Goldies too in their breeding scheme but I believe Goldies are steadier than Flatties?
 
Guide dogs used to do first cross goldie x flatcoat, this was done to 1: improve hip status and 2: to reduce the "stubborness" that some goldies can show. (A good friend of mine used to work for guide dogs and had both stud dogs and brood bitches) they would neuter all crosses and not breed cross to cross.
obviously I am a big flatcoat fan and I feel that there is no point crossing the perfect breed with anything else 😉🐾😉
 
Chiffy said:
Really ss! Do you know that for a fact? Why would the Guide Dog people specifically use a flatcoat/lab when Labradors are so good at the job in their own right? Flatcoats are intelligent and love to work but take longer to mature than labs and have a certain joie de vive and sense of humour! Think I might investigate that one.

Sorry Dry Rot, I didn't mean to imply you don't know about flatcoats, I know you have vast knowledge of gun dog breeds.
Think I better opt out of this thread now, it just touched a nerve!
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Yes, thats a fact. It may surprise you that the biggest percentage of guide dogs are LABX Golden retrievers. This cross has proved to be the best at guiding as it does reduce the willfullness of the GR and the exuberance of the lab.
There are not that many pure breed labs used for guide dogs.
 
Now you are saying Goldie x lab ss not flatcoat! I knew that as I have seen the brood bitches in kennels
Was waiting for you satinbaze to say something amazing about wonderful flatcoats!
 
Was waiting for you satinbaze to say something amazing about wonderful flatcoats![/QUOTE]

😀👍🐾😀👍🐾
Best breed in the world
 
I don't see the issue, at least they aren't dogs at completely cross purposes. Maybe the bitch has had her KC quota? maybe it was an accident that wasn't worth correcting? Maybe they just thought they would make nice dogs.

MoC there was a rescue collie x husky on fb the other day, I thought oh my!
 
Chiffy said:
Now you are saying Goldie x lab ss not flatcoat! I knew that as I have seen the brood bitches in kennels
Was waiting for you satinbaze to say something amazing about wonderful flatcoats!
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I only said that as you seemed to think it's only labs used as guide dogs. Yes flatcoats have been crossed with both labs and golden retrievers. That's a fact.
 
Good on guide dogs, they come across as having a very switched on logical breeding program. I just don't understand why anybody would consider a flat coat being crossed with a Goldy that appalling, I think Goldy's might have originally be an offshoot of the flatcoat, it's not like crossing one with an Akita.
 
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